MPP PIP-1012lv-ms bypass problem

For some reason, when we have power connected to the AC input and the screen shows bypass, the AC output still runs from the inverter. Setting 01 is set to Util, so utility power should power the load first. We've tested the setup 3 separate times in the last two days and it has worked correctly 1 time, and wrong the other 2. Each time we tested, we tried powering the unit off, disconnecting utility power, and disconnecting the battery before powering back on again. When it isn't working right, we can get the same results over and over. When it's working correctly, we can get the same results over and over.

Today, while on utility power, when powering on an AC load, we got error 7 (overload). That error came up every time we tested today.

Are there any other settings we need to check to see if it might be causing it? Also, are there firmware updates available for these MPP units?

Ok, with some additional testing, it appears that the inverter is always running on the MPP Solar units even if running in bypass mode. When set to utility priority, the inverter is powered by the AC input. This imposes a limit on the available output power even if in bypass mode. It doesn't draw off battery, but the unit will still shut down if the load on the AC output goes over 100%.

Can someone else verify this? Set setting 01 to util and apply power to the AC input. Then put a load on the AC output and see if the display shows inverter load.

I guess I can see why it might be built like this so the transfer between utility power and battery power is instant, but it's a bit annoying if you want to have loads that exceed the capability of the inverter run when there is utility power present.

I have a 1012 and yes it is limited by the 1000w inverter. I use the 120vac input for my generator, but have it wired through a dedicated outlet. That allows me to power high current devices directly form the Geni.

further thoughts: With the MPP in Utility mode, which is how I have my set, the MPP acts as a transfer switch, however it is limited to the internal wiring/components of the inverter, which is 1000 watts. When the load exceeds the limits of the inverter you will get error 07.

@Ian, did I misstate anything?

iceledoar said:

further thoughts: With the MPP in Utility mode, which is how I have my set, the MPP acts as a transfer switch, however it is limited to the internal wiring/components of the inverter, which is 1000 watts. When the load exceeds the limits of the inverter you will get error 07.

@Ian, did I misstate anything?

Click to expand...

@lan your statements are precisely how my 1012 is working. Which due to an inverter load percentage always being shown suggests to me the unit is never really in bypass mode.

This doesn't make me happy.

In table 1 of specifications, the last item is "output power derating." Table 1 lists line-mode specification

There is a graph showing power output vs. input. That clearly indicates that even on line power, you are limited to the rating of the unit. This is a fairly common thing.

There's bypass (go around) and pass-through (go through). These are a pass-through inverter.

My neighbor's inverter can only pass 30A from grid power, so 3600W on a 4000W inverter.

Mine can pass through 100A as well as ADD 40A to it if needed.

Understanding in inverter's operating limits is very important. There is a reason why these MPP Solar units are inexpensive.

Oh the shame of it all. ?

Torkrench said:

Ok, with some additional testing, it appears that the inverter is always running on the MPP Solar units even if running in bypass mode. When set to utility priority, the inverter is powered by the AC input. This imposes a limit on the available output power even if in bypass mode. It doesn't draw off battery, but the unit will still shut down if the load on the AC output goes over 100%.

Can someone else verify this? Set setting 01 to util and apply power to the AC input. Then put a load on the AC output and see if the display shows inverter load.

I guess I can see why it might be built like this so the transfer between utility power and battery power is instant, but it's a bit annoying if you want to have loads that exceed the capability of the inverter run when there is utility power present.

Click to expand...

From my test and experience (I have a 1012lv): If program 1 is set to solar priority or battery priority and I try to run my RV AC using my generator (starting watt of AC about 3000 watts and running watts of AC about 1500watts), the MPP shuts the inverter down and gives fault 6. Fault 6 is abnormal inverter voltage. I have to disconnect the solar, shut down and restart the MPP to reset it again.

However, if I set program 1 to utility priority, the MPP handles the load without shutting down and operates in bypass mode (you have to allow bypass mode in settings for this to work). However the MPP shows that my load is 146% and gives me warning number 7. Warning number 7 is overload.

Please note that warning is different from fault. The same fault code can be warning or a fault. So you can get warning 7 or fault 7. A warning won't shut down the inverter. It is just to warn you. The inverter shuts down only when there is a fault.

From my experience, I noticed that if I set the MPP to solar priority, I get a lot out my solar. I have 500W of solar on my RV roof and the MPP can draw over 400w from the panels and run lots of things on solar priority. But somehow, if I set priority to utility, the MPP draws only about 250-300w of solar energy and the rest it draws from my batteries. It looks like on utility priority the MPP is tune to performed well with utility and not solar and vice versa.

The draw back is that if I set it to solar priority, I have to change it to utility priority before I run my AC (otherwise it shuts down as described above). In conclusion, I run it on utility priority because I hide the MPP in a cabinet and I have no time to change settings all the time I want to use heavy loads.

Interesting. I was hoping that AC input could go above and beyond the inverter rating when needed... Priority pulling from batteries and topping off with AC from grid. In Spain we have to contract for electricity guessing what "potential" in Kw we could pull at any given moment. I was hoping for a 1kw from grid and 3 kw from inverter for maximum 4kw. A 4kw grid contract is expensive especially if I am pulling my power from solar charger batteries. High base fee / low Kw prices from electric company. Anyone know a system that would allow topping off to a higher Kw than the inverter? Thanks.

iceledoar said:

further thoughts: With the MPP in Utility mode, which is how I have my set, the MPP acts as a transfer switch, however it is limited to the internal wiring/components of the inverter, which is 1000 watts. When the load exceeds the limits of the inverter you will get error 07.

Click to expand...

In @Will Prowse's video of the 800w unit he exceeded the inverter capacity with a heat gun and the unit switched over to grid power. This was still running through the inverter correct?

dmholmes said:

In @Will Prowse's video of the 800w unit he exceeded the inverter capacity with a heat gun and the unit switched over to grid power. This was still running through the inverter correct?

Click to expand...

I don't think it was running through the inverter; if you exceed the inverter rated capacity, the MPP will give error 7 and switch off. However, in @Will Prowse video I guess the following is what happened (based on my test and experience):

The MPP comes with program no 1 set to Utility as default. So when @Will Prowse was doing the video, the MPP was still on the default set up. This is why he could exceed the rated capacity.

The key point is this: when program No1 set as Utility priority, the MPP ignores program No12 and program No13. On the other hand, when program No1 is set to Solar or battery priority, the MPP always takes into account program No12 and 13 settings before switching to utility. This creates fault 7 if there is overload.

I will illustrate my experience:

Program No12, I set it to 12.5 Volts: This means is on Solar or Battery priority, the MPP will keep using solar or battery through the inverter until battery voltage drops to 12.5V. Let's say my battery is at 13.7 volts and I connect a 1500W load. The MPP will try to use first my battery though the inverter until 13.7V drops to 12.5V. The inverter will detect that 1500W is above 1000W it is rated for and even if we are not yet at 12.5V, it will give fault 7 and shuts down.

However, if I set program no 1 to Utility, MPP doesn't consider program 12 anymore; in other word the MPP won't use the inverter first until the voltage drops to 12.5. Once it detects that there is 120V, it will switch directly to utility, ignoring the inverter irrespective of the load. So if I apply 1300W, it won't give fault 7 because it wasn't using the inverter in the first place; it was on utility already when the load got applied.

Because I do dry campings, I set my MPP to utility as priority. But I have no utility connected. The MPP detects that it is set on utility but there is no utility. It automatically switch to solar and battery in a meantime waiting until I apply utility. Therefore, the MPP uses solar and battery every time although set on utility. The day I want to run my air conditioning (1500 W), I first switch on and connect the generator. The MPP detects utility and automatically starts using utility because it has utility as priority. Then I switch on my Air Conditioning; no problem. When I am done, I switch off the generator, the MPP automatically goes back to Solar (during the day) or Battery (at night - when there is no solar).

To be able to overload the pip-1012lv-ms without it shutting off, you'd have to set Program setting No23 to bYE (bypass enable) on the display, or using Watchpower software and usb connection to PIP, parameter setting "Overload Bypass" has to be set to "Enable". When bypass is enabled, the fault 7 would blink on the LCD in an overload situation, Load % would show a number above 100%, but inverter would not shut down AC output.

How many amps can you pull thru these units in bypass mode? The manual recommends a 10 amp breaker between the unit and the AC source but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the overload/bypass mode?

I am still to determine the max amps. My use case only require non frequent overloads for short (sub 2 minutes) periods.

1000watts/120vac=10amps max.

The output relays are rated at 20A 250VAC.

The AC input of the 1012 has 20A thermo circuit breaker, in true bypass mode you can draw more then 10A.
MPP manual suggested to feed the AC input through 10A breaker.

Jony said:

The MPP comes with program no 1 set to Utility as default. So when @Will Prowse was doing the video, the MPP was still on the default set up. This is why he could exceed the rated capacity.

Click to expand...

Sorry to revive an old thread... but, I'm wanting to get clarification on this issue as well... If Will's unit was indeed set to Utility as default, wouldn't his display show running off utility the second he had it plugged into AC? IE: He wouldn't see the unit display actually switch to Bypass if it was already running on utility...

I have had one overload situation on my 1012LV-MS, I forgot to take my Brother laser printer off the MPP circuit and the wife went to print a recipe she found. (My Bad). My system did bypass without faulting. Settings were-Charge source priority=Solar Only / Output source priority= SBU and the key I believe is Overload Bypass is enabled. The system runs perfectly now never exceeding 700w for my home office. But if you're in a situation where you may not have calculated your needs accurately, you could just pick up a 2000w PS Inverter. You can turn off the MPP's Inverter by the switch on the bottom (this will also negate the Transfer Switch) but still use its charge controller.. yes, it's an expensive charge controller at this point, but since the investment was already made, it's not a total bust. Anyway, my home office is completely self-sustaining at this point. Runs off panels during the day while charging the 200 AH LifePo battery and runs off the battery during the night for the Home Security system. Rinse and repeat. The all-in ones (12v- 1000W) are limited, but if you stay within their limits, they are a perfect solution for smaller applications.

My Settings:

Reviving this thread again...

I am noticing that a load of only around 230Watts (when I initially power up my computer on top of an already 120 watt load), the unit switches to grid mode and never comes back out until I turn off the computer (bringing the load back down to around 120 watts).

I assume this is because "Overload bypass" is set to Enabled (I have not yet tested disabling this to see what happens)

Question: Why is my unit switching into Grid Mode at only 20% of the load it should be able to handle (And maybe more importantly, why doesn't it switch back when the solar is providing more than enough power)?

Here's my settings in Solar Assitant:







Here's the behavior: (5:30 is when my computer automatically turns on)