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Should we upgrade and do we alert electric company of new inverter if so?

SailorEd

SailorEd

New Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2023
Messages
3
Location
Southwest NV
Hi all, two questions for you:

1) We have a perfectly fine working SolarEdge inverter on our grid tied, net metered home. With so much that’s changed in the past ten years (guessing at that but there’s got to be some improvements, no?), would it be advantageous to upgrade to a new, more state of the art inverter? Our panels-to-inverter sizing is maxed and we’re not planning to upgrade any of our panels.

2) And if we do upgrade our 10 yr old inverter to a new model by [insert your favorite inverter company name here], do we have to alert the electric provider we’ve agreed to net meter with?

Thanks for helping with these newbie questions!
 
Stick with what you have unless the improvements given increase the system yield by enough to pay for the new inverter in 3 to 4 years. That will be a tough/impossible one to achieve so stick with your current inverter until it breaks.
 
We had a similar quandary. Our insurance company cancelled our insurance because we needed a new roof. Had to pull the 20 year old PV system to replace the roof. The cost to reinstall the PVs didn't make sense so we replaced the entire system and went from 4.1kw to 9.6kw grid-tied for a reasonable price. Reused the older panels for an off-grid system installed last year so now we have 16.6kw total. Between the two system we are covering all our electrical needs plus producing surplus back to Portland General Electric. (At least for now.)
 
Replacing an inverter won't do anything for you. Maybe 98% vs. 96% efficient, completely insignificant.

Replacing SolarEdge with StorEdge would let you add an (expensive) battery, have backup when the grid goes down.
We in California might do that after 20 years, due to being kicked off net metering (battery required to get decent savings under new plan.)

If you replace SolarEdge with any other brand, you have to replace their module level optimizers with either optimizers or RSD compatible with the new brand.

Although panels may match inverter wattage rating, installing higher wattage panels would increase daily and annual production.

What you should check is that all your panels are still producing, vs. some optimizers have died.
Can you check peak & daily production vs. several years ago?
Check current production against expectations, but that is iffy because you don't know how much light you're getting.

With the right access you should be able to see a map of each panel's output. That would show if any are bad.
 
Ahh, Hedges, that was going to be my next question in another thread, so thanks for the prompt!

When I reached out to SolarEdge to ask for Owner/Installer access right to my system via their web based login, they wouldn’t grant me that. Only user-level access (I believe I have the right terms but I’m sure you get what I mean). I wanted that access specifically to learn the details of my system and see if all components were operating as expected.

In the end, I’m not sure what my expected is and can only make an educated guess. With 27 Silfab 330w panels, my math is around 8,500 on paper, and actual daily peak is right at 7kw so I’m kinda comfortable with that.

I know they don’t want a customer to brick their system with installer/admin access but it seems I’m hostage to them.

Hedges said:
Replacing an inverter won't do anything for you. Maybe 98% vs. 96% efficient, completely insignificant.

Replacing SolarEdge with StorEdge would let you add an (expensive) battery, have backup when the grid goes down.
We in California might do that after 20 years, due to being kicked off net metering (battery required to get decent savings under new plan.)

If you replace SolarEdge with any other brand, you have to replace their module level optimizers with either optimizers or RSD compatible with the new brand.

Although panels may match inverter wattage rating, installing higher wattage panels would increase daily and annual production.

What you should check is that all your panels are still producing, vs. some optimizers have died.
Can you check peak & daily production vs. several years ago?
Check current production against expectations, but that is iffy because you don't know how much light you're getting.

With the right access you should be able to see a map of each panel's output. That would show if any are bad.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Brett! I see what you’re saying but I don’t have that option on my app… my bottom sub-menu options show time & location, but not a grid layout.

IMG_3641.png
Brett V said:
You can check each panel on the app. I’ve caught 3 bad optimizers and had the installers come out and replace them over the last 5 years or so.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
SailorEd said:
Ahh, Hedges, that was going to be my next question in another thread, so thanks for the prompt!

When I reached out to SolarEdge to ask for Owner/Installer access right to my system via their web based login, they wouldn’t grant me that. Only user-level access (I believe I have the right terms but I’m sure you get what I mean). I wanted that access specifically to learn the details of my system and see if all components were operating as expected.

In the end, I’m not sure what my expected is and can only make an educated guess. With 27 Silfab 330w panels, my math is around 8,500 on paper, and actual daily peak is right at 7kw so I’m kinda comfortable with that.

I know they don’t want a customer to brick their system with installer/admin access but it seems I’m hostage to them.
Click to expand...
Schneider did the multi-level access rights for years, but over time they lost that as people posted the default passwords. I will NOT buy a system where the now "out of business" installer has my access codes - my son has that problem

I won't buy a system with that crap

so I built my own system (Schneider yes) - I also do NOT do netmetering
 
With my utility, the sell back metering agreement gives me a 1:1 net 'buy back' from the utility. They have since changed that to 1:.6 for new solar installs. I am grandfathered into the original agreement, but ANY 'Substantial' changes to that original agreement causes me to be under the NEW metering contract.. Meaning, if they deem any changes I make to my system to be 'Substantial', then they can change my buy backs to 40% less than I have been getting. So...., I think I will stay with what I have for the foreseeable future. The O.P. may want to check & see if his energy provider has a similar arrangement to invalidate his net agreement should he change his original equipment.
 
Can’t really imagine improvements that would justify upgrading without increasing capacity.

Start with production or performance shortfall of current system and then look for changes that might improve.

It is of course OK to spend a few months fading on forums doing it the other way (reading up on potential improvements and looking for opportunities). I’m always a fan of approaching engineering project ideation and analysis from multiple starting points.
 
I'm not sure why needing a new roof would be reason for insurance company to cancel.
Leaky old roof wouldn't be something they have to pay for.

Fire risk is a big deal. In California, many insurance companies have stopped writing policies, some have non-renewed and withdrew from the state entirely (at least for homeowner's policies.)

Homes in wooded hillsides are often not renewed while those in the city are (saw news about Orinda.)

While likelihood of losses may have gone up, materials, labor, permit fees have skyrocketed.

It is said the entire industry has recently been paying out $1.09 in claims for every $1.00 in premium.
Due to voter approved Prop 103, insurance companies can't increase rates without prior approval from the insurance commissioner.

(Similarly, rent control. In Oakland, rent increase can't be more than CPI which is currently 2.5%, or 3%, whichever is less. Permission can be requested if cost increases are documented. CPI by the way is national, not state or local, and is costs excluding volatile food, energy, and housing. So in no way reflects cost of doing business as a landlord, paying wages which have been raised 25%, etc.)


Florida of course is known for storm damage.
 
We were changing insurance companies to save some money on premiums, as suggested by our agent. The new insurer sent an inspector who said we needed a new roof and the company immediately cancelled the policy. We had to go to a specialty insurer at double the cost until we could replace the roof. Decided to do the PV system at the same time since it was 20 yrs. old and a new system wasn't much more in cost than removing an reinstalling the old one.
 
zanydroid said:
This happened to me in California. Get contractor to attest that wood shake roof has x years of service life left or replace; or your policy will not be renewed
Click to expand...
I would have been okay with that, but the company wouldn't give us any leeway. Apparently they have a limited time to cancel a new contract.
 
A bad (leaky) roof will destroy the structure.

The insurance company doesn’t want to insure a building that is subject to (very) rapid decay. Their whole job is to insure the thing. The thing has to remain a viable thing or the contract to insure it doesn’t work.

Makes sense. Not sure why people find this surprising or upsetting.
 
Hedges said:
I'm not sure why needing a new roof would be reason for insurance company to cancel.
Leaky old roof wouldn't be something they have to pay for.

Fire risk is a big deal. In California, many insurance companies have stopped writing policies, some have non-renewed and withdrew from the state entirely (at least for homeowner's policies.)

Homes in wooded hillsides are often not renewed while those in the city are (saw news about Orinda.)

While likelihood of losses may have gone up, materials, labor, permit fees have skyrocketed.

It is said the entire industry has recently been paying out $1.09 in claims for every $1.00 in premium.
Due to voter approved Prop 103, insurance companies can't increase rates without prior approval from the insurance commissioner.

(Similarly, rent control. In Oakland, rent increase can't be more than CPI which is currently 2.5%, or 3%, whichever is less. Permission can be requested if cost increases are documented. CPI by the way is national, not state or local, and is costs excluding volatile food, energy, and housing. So in no way reflects cost of doing business as a landlord, paying wages which have been raised 25%, etc.)


Florida of course is known for storm damage.
Click to expand...
Thank you greatly.
 
Bluedog225 said:
A bad (leaky) roof will destroy the structure.

The insurance company doesn’t want to insure a building that is subject to (very) rapid decay. Their whole job is to insure the thing. The thing has to remain a viable thing or the contract to insure it doesn’t work.

Makes sense. Not sure why people find this surprising or upsetting.
Click to expand...
The problem is who gets to decide when a new roof Is needed.

The possibilities for abuse are increased.
Insurance companies love little legal loopholes. Try and give it to you sans lube
 
ScropusGobbleBottom said:
The problem is who gets to decide when a new roof Is needed.

The possibilities for abuse are increased.
Insurance companies love little legal loopholes. Try and give it to you sans lube
Click to expand...

Seems like there are standards for a new roof being needed - and they are written -

X number of divits Y inches deep in a 9 0sqft area
Z percentage of the material missing off the top of the asphalt shingle
N cracks in the cedar shakes per area
etc.

Now, the roofer can argue with the insurance that they should pay. But if you get a roofer to inspect and say the roof is good for 5 more years and they are on the hook for repairs between now and then the story may change a bit.
 
Bluedog225 said:
Not sure why people find this surprising or upsetting.
Click to expand...
Because there was no time given to correct the problem. We were ready and willing to repair the roof but weren't given any opportunity to fix what appeared to be a roof in decent condition. We told the company that but they wouldn't work with us. That is what upset me. I didn't say I wouldn't do what they asked.
 
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