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Long run (1400ft) Fiber Optic Cable vs Starlink Internet?

JRH said:
He’s been selling them since the start far Below cost… it’s reported that starlink is finally to a profit reaching point this spring … that's quite a different business model than big pharma…
Click to expand...

Not really, if the profit is all from US customers...

Seems to me to be the same.

Anyway, we digress, and are running afoul of the "Chit Chat" directive.
 
v_green57 said:
Latency. Lower is better. The fiber connection will be a fraction of the SL link.

It matters. Low latency bandwidth is more responsive.

Of course, the likely deciding factor is going to be the $$$, as it always is...

Another option would be a point to point wireless link, using carrier-grade gear. Set up an AP at the road, power it with a small solar system. Client at the far end.

This kind of stuff:

shopdoubleradius.com

Ubiquiti airMAX PowerBeam 5AC 500 mm Bridge US [PBE-5AC-500-US]

The Ubiquiti airMAX PowerBeam 5AC 500 mm Bridge US [PBE-5AC-500-US] is a 5 GHz WiFi antenna with a 450+ Mbps Real TCP/IP throughput rate.Using airMAX 802.11ac technology, this kit supports up to 450+ Mbps throughput in a small form factor. It launches with PtP functionality, however client mode...
shopdoubleradius.com shopdoubleradius.com

This would (should) have the benefits of the all-fiber drop without the expense of a 1400 ft cabling run.
Click to expand...
I have a set of these and they work great.
Probably overkill for the 1000’ distance but hey why not.
 
Rednecktek said:
Fiber Pro's:
Very damage resistant when buried in conduit
Trenching cost is negligible when you're doing all the rest of the road building
Very low latency
Higher capacity for bandwidth

Fiber Con's:
Single mode fiber is $$$Pricy!$$$ and you'll want to pull 2 lines
VERY expensive and high skill required for terminating the ends
Specialized equipment to convert to regular Ethernet
Getting your ISP to even LET you have a fiber drop at the end connect to their system, expect $$$$$ money to them.
They can raise rates whenever they want, suck it up.

Starlink Pro's:
Lower cost up front
Easier setup
No special permissions or equipment needed after the initial hardware

Starlink Con's:
Weather can really screw with things
Trees
Limited bandwidth
Worse latency
They can raise rates whenever they want, suck it up.

PtP Wireless Pro's:
Cheaper than fiber
Ummm... cheaper than fiber?

PtP Con's:
More expensive than Starlink up front
Powered hardware at both ends required, your maintenance
More points of failure
Weather plays havoc
Trees
Clear line of sight required
Higher latency than fiber, comparable to Starlink most days
The ISP can raise rates whenever they want, suck it up.

IF you had a friend with the termination tools and skills, and IF the ISP will let you jump into their fiber line, and IF you can get a good deal on 3000ft of single mode (NOT Multi-Mode!!) fiber then it's going to be the best option in the long run for performance. However, if you're going to have to pay a specialist to terminate and IF the ISP is going to charge you through the nose for connection, then it's worth adding up the total costs and dividing by Starlink to see how long it'll take to break even.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input!
I need to research PtP communication, I don't know of anyone up who has that.
 
Checkthisout said:
Have you seen a fiber provider supply service to a residence with no electrical connection to the grid?

Their equipment needs 120 volts to run whether the drop is at the road or wherever. I think the junction cabinet where the customers end service ties in needs 120 volt power. If only primary power is present where the OPs drive intersects the main road where fiber is present, then he'll need to pay to install a transformer etc.

I'm going to guess that getting fiber where he's at isn't possible.
Click to expand...
I'm going to have off grid power supply but this won't be at the entrance to our road. I will have to make a call to Spectrum soon to figure out what there requirements are for hooking up a new service. Obviously there is power available at the entrance road but I would need to get a service transformer or drop at the road. Not sure if they would be able to power there data systems from the house that will have power...
 
ColoradoRider said:
I have Starlink. Last winter we accumulated over 14 feet of snow lead by a 4 foot dumper in which the Starlink "dish" was partially buried in snow (3 inches at the bottom), and I never lost the signal. The "dish" has a built-in heater, so I never had to clear off any snow. Between a solid solar system and Starlink, I live quite comfortably up here in my wee piece of off-grid heaven in the high country of Colorado.
Click to expand...
Yes but do you play games online?? hahahaha I'd need to have serious bandwidth to keep playing my favorite FPS:LOL:
 
HalfBaked said:
I have done PTP over 1500ft with a couple different units and despite the reviews, it will not maintain a connection through dense forest.
So it was easier to drop a few trees for starlink.
Click to expand...
There are a crap ton of trees between the entrance of the road and where the house will sit.
 
Rednecktek said:
VERY expensive and high skill required for terminating the ends
Click to expand...
Pre-terminated ends are readily available. You just order cable type and tell them what ends to put on and it is done for you. See here: https://www.lanshack.com/QuickTreX-Pre-Terminated-Fiber-Optic-Assembly-Builder
A few years ago I specced out 500ft of Indoor/Outdoor 2 strand 50/125 multi-mode OM3 with pulling eyes and LC connectors on both ends for only $287. So it is no different then laying ethernet except don't have to worry about the length restriction. On the ends you would use https://www.trendnet.com/store/products/product-detail?prod=130_TI-F11SFP
And https://www.trendnet.com/store/prod...e-LC-Module-550m-TI-MGBSX-v1.1#specifications.

I would always go with fiber if that is an option. I think people just don't realize it is a lot easier to do then it used to be 10 years ago when everything is plug and play now and you can order cables pre-terminated for you.
 
v_green57 said:
Degrade, yes, but not totally kill it if you select proper gear, pay attention to line of sight and it isn't 100% trees end-to-end on the ONLY path that's available to you. Google aerial would help.

There are a lot of specifics we don't know here, but we have buried the OP with stuff to follow up on. That's a good thing.
Click to expand...
It's gonna take me days to reply to all these replies! I love it!
I honestly think the PtP option is a no go because there is a slight hill and many trees to block a wireless signal between the road and house location.
 
JRH said:
He’s been selling them since the start far Below cost… it’s reported that starlink is finally to a profit reaching point this spring … that's quite a different business model than big pharma…
Click to expand...
Pretty sure Elon isn't worried about profit from Starlink....He's got bigger fish to fry
 
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JBoffgrid2022 said:
Here in Maine, the local monopoly err I mean cable company is Spectrum.
Click to expand...
Ok.

What level of service is Spectrum offering you? Connection speeds, technology (cable docsis, ftth, etc..). We don't know if it's worth using vs Starlink without knowing what level of service you are getting for dealing with all this. Sometimes they offer very little to rural customers.. as they are already maxed out in an area or using old copper wire tech.

Is this "road", just a long driveway? Is it your road, or a community road? Could you install a small utility shed or enclosure for their equipment up there at the road powered by solar/battery? Then you could use ptp to transmit it to your place, or put in a cable later at your leisure. If transmitting it all in one shot is tough due to obstacles, you can always use multiple hops to get there.. as long as you can power / protect the equipment at each hop.
 
Haze said:
Yes, we have fiber at our cabin and it’s completely off grid. The telephone company ran fiber in because the Gov gave them a big Elon special…Ie they were subsidized to do it.
Click to expand...

This bugs the hell out of me.

I'm within 15 minutes of Microsoft, Amazon etc.

We still function off of Coax the cable companies installed in the mid 1980's while my hillbilly shack recreational property out in nowheresville has a fiber pedestal right at the property line.

What happened to equality? The poor rednecks get all the cool tech while I'm still running off technology that was obsolete when VHS tapes came out. 😡😡😡😡😡
 
Rednecktek said:
Fiber Pro's:
Very damage resistant when buried in conduit
Trenching cost is negligible when you're doing all the rest of the road building
Very low latency
Higher capacity for bandwidth

Fiber Con's:
Single mode fiber is $$$Pricy!$$$ and you'll want to pull 2 lines
VERY expensive and high skill required for terminating the ends
Specialized equipment to convert to regular Ethernet
Getting your ISP to even LET you have a fiber drop at the end connect to their system, expect $$$$$ money to them.
They can raise rates whenever they want, suck it up.

Starlink Pro's:
Lower cost up front
Easier setup
No special permissions or equipment needed after the initial hardware

Starlink Con's:
Weather can really screw with things
Trees
Limited bandwidth
Worse latency
They can raise rates whenever they want, suck it up.

PtP Wireless Pro's:
Cheaper than fiber
Ummm... cheaper than fiber?

PtP Con's:
More expensive than Starlink up front
Powered hardware at both ends required, your maintenance
More points of failure
Weather plays havoc
Trees
Clear line of sight required
Higher latency than fiber, comparable to Starlink most days
The ISP can raise rates whenever they want, suck it up.

IF you had a friend with the termination tools and skills, and IF the ISP will let you jump into their fiber line, and IF you can get a good deal on 3000ft of single mode (NOT Multi-Mode!!) fiber then it's going to be the best option in the long run for performance. However, if you're going to have to pay a specialist to terminate and IF the ISP is going to charge you through the nose for connection, then it's worth adding up the total costs and dividing by Starlink to see how long it'll take to break even.
Click to expand...

you can buy a pre terminated 1500ft single mode LC to LC fibre cable for less than $300, a pair of fibre to Ethernet converters for $150 job done. Pop it in some conduit and job sorted. It all depends on what the OP is connecting to the other end, an existing BB connection, dial up.. who knows.
 
shavermcspud said:
you can buy a pre terminated 1500ft single mode LC to LC fibre cable for less than $300, a pair of fibre to Ethernet converters for $150 job done. Pop it in some conduit and job sorted. It all depends on what the OP is connecting to the other end, an existing BB connection, dial up.. who knows.
Click to expand...
Any cleaver way to run a single 1500 ft fiber optic cable through conduit without any damage?? My head is killing me thinking how to do this...I might just get some homing pigeons instead....UGH

Also, thank you for the input! I appreciate all the advice:giggle:
 
Would 2" Black water line suffice for this run? I'm pretty sure I could source that as a conduit assuming it has enough strength to be buried

Pricing is around $2/ft = $2800 for a 1400ft section

I'm thinking less labor than gluing standard PVC 10ft sections. Also much less opportunities for water to enter a section of failed PVC cement
 
JBoffgrid2022 said:
Would 2" Black water line suffice for this run? I'm pretty sure I could source that as a conduit assuming it has enough strength to be buried
Click to expand...
HDPE is pretty good tbh I wouldn't go with thin wall because of the dirt but it shouldn't get taken out by the critters.
JBoffgrid2022 said:
Any cleaver way to run a single 1500 ft fiber optic cable through conduit without any damage?? My head is killing me thinking how to do this...I might just get some homing pigeons instead....UGH

Also, thank you for the input! I appreciate all the advice:giggle:
Click to expand...
As sparky said get some light strong string tie a plastic bag on the end and use a good shop vac on the other end 1400 ft is pretty excessive never tried it at those lengths but it should work.
 
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