Ecoflow/Bluetti Home Backup vs. EG4

[JAS]

Hello All,

Looking for opinions on a EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultra w/ Smart Home Panel 2 or Buetti EP800 vs. a more DIY EG4 6000XP w/ Rack Mount Batteries...

Background:

I have been getting my feet wet with solar/battery backup systems on a small 12v scale for several years now. I have a system at my off-grid cabin with a GoPower IC2000 and 12v 170ah LFP diy battery. At home, I have a MPP 1012 AIO with a 300AH Rebel LFP battery running my Internet and computer rack.

I got permission from the "finance committee" to do a larger system at home. ? We lose power probably 4-5 times a year for significant time and at least once every few years is for several days to a week or more. We do have a backup generator that will run all of the essentials (just maybe not all at the same time) and that is fine for us. However, it is not automatic and my wife is not comfortable with the procedure of hooking it up. (This is amplified when the power goes out at night in a snow storm)

Solution:

Since I'm familiar with building systems from components, I had planned to put together an initial EG4 system with the 6000XP and (2) EG4 rack mount batteries. (knowing I could add on as needed) However, my wife has not been happy with my "experimenting/learning" with our existing 12v system and told me she would prefer a more "commercial" easy for her to understand/manage system (even though I told her it would be more expensive).

Sooo... that got me looking at the Bluetti EP800 and the upcoming Ecoflow Delta Pro Ultimate/Smart Home Panel 2 solutions... There is no firm pricing on the DPU/SHP2 yet. However, I'm gestimating that both solutions will run about $4000 - $6000 more for similar battery capacity as the EG4 system. Both setups will require me hiring an electrician to do the wiring for the associated critical circuit panels and wiring (I don't have physical room next to our main panel. So any system will have to be installed about 30' away on the other side of our basement.

Note: Solar panel connections will come later. Initially, just looking at an automatic battery backup system.

Pros:

• Both Bluetti and EcoFlow systems have a really nice compact form factor that are unobtrusive and or more easily mobile if necessary. Apps seem pretty nice.
• EcoFlow system has the best control over individual circuits and battery management
• EG4 system is much cheaper. Plug and play. All components can be swapped out and/or bypassed easily. Upgradeability is the most flexible and less costly. Even if company or product goes out of support, different vendor/products can be relatively easily swapped in place.

Concerns:

• Bluetti - Reputation for support is not great. Costlier to add capacity down the road. If Inverter goes down, the batteries are unusable with any other Inverter. What happens to support after they move on to a newer product? Or what if they go out of business?
• EcoFlow - Reputation for support is better. Costlier to add capacity down the road. Same problem as Bluetti if Inverter goes down. What happens if something goes screwy with the SHP2? Is it possible that my critical circuits could go down without being able to bypass? What happens to support after they move on to a newer product? (like from the SHP to the SHP2) Or what if they go out of business?
• EG4 - Takes up quite a bit more space. Requires wall mounting (and preferred fireproofing). In general more work to connect up. More intimidating to look at for my wife and understand what to do in an emergency. (Although, I think the "kill" switch on the 6000XP makes for a nice addition)

I think I know which direction I'm leaning. (Noting that if the pricing for the Ecoflow comes in close, I would be tempted for that).

Appreciate any thoughts people may have on the subject!


Thanks,

JAS

 

[Browse]

I looked at the pre packaged solutions but eventually went with a 12kw AIO inverter and 4 rack batteries (20 kwh). It really depends on your needs and for me, I wasn't sure if one of those Ecoflow or Bluetti units would be able to start my 4 ton HVAC, so I went with a low frequency, heavy duty inverter unit. I have a 7kw inverter backup generator as well...converted for tri-fuel, but decided I wanted some redundancy and more versatility to run larger items. I wired it up myself and wrote a procedure for my spouse on how to use it in the event of an outage.

If you don't have large startup loads, one of the portable battery backup units should be fine but you will pay a premium for battery storage. The good thing is that you get a 30% tax credit for battery storage systems now, so that saves quite a bit on the investment.

 

[Jchance]

I don’t mean to hijack this post but I’m looking at the exact same thing as you JAS. I’m building a small 800 Sqf cabin and looking for a backup system. But I want to connect to an ATS. Is there any way to bare wire the Delta Pro into an ATS? Do they make bare wire to plug cables?

 

[JAS]

I don't think there is any ability to hardwire the Delta Pro. But, you could make a cable (or buy a premade and cut one end off) that goes from the 30A receptacle on the DP and hardwire the other end into the ATS.

 

[Jchance]

I don't think there is any ability to hardwire the Delta Pro. But, you could make a cable (or buy a premade and cut one end off) that goes from the 30A receptacle on the DP and hardwire the other end into the ATS.

Yea, I thought of that, I was wondering if something was available.

How do you plan on contacting the SoGen to your main panel? Are you only going to connect critical loads?

Thanks for your reply JAS.

 

[JAS]

How do you plan on contacting the SoGen to your main panel? Are you only going to connect critical loads?

Yes, via critical loads panel

 

[Jchance]

JAS, you stated that if you went with an Eg4 system you’d need to do “preferred fireproofing”. What exactly are you concerned about and what would you need to do for this fireproofing? I’m very interested in knowing if this should be a consideration in my system. Right now my biggest concern is ventilation, since it’s going to be inside a utility closet.

Now that the EcoFlow Delta has the new “Ultra” system coming out, I’m leaning towards that, especially with that new smart panel and its 240V capability. I really want this to work as a true autonomous backup system. That is, It needs it to go on when the power goes out and vise versus. And since this will be a vacation/rental cabin, having to have a renter/guest throw any switches would not be a good idea, in fact I want the system locked up in a utility closet and not accessible by anyone but me!

Like you JAS, my only concern is those relay switches and circuitry in the panel. I’ve owned my own home automation business in the early 2000’s and I’ve had my share of hiccups and failed components! I can’t find any good info on the new EcoFlow 2 smart panel, not sure what components are in that “black box” that could possibly cause issues. But I’m assuming it’s built just like the EcoFlow pro panel, with the exception of having the ability to connect 3 inverters. I’m just glad that by the time I do this portion of the project, the “bugs” should be worked out on the Ultra!?

I don’t know much about the Eg4 systems, but if I could put a system together with an Eg4 panel, and have it work like the EcoFlow smart panel, (autonomously), I think that would be a great cost savings, but I need to keep researching. For now, it’s all about having the cabin builder have my panel prepped for whatever system I decide to I nstall. They usually recess their circuit panels within the walls in these modular cabins, and the walls are all finished in tongue and grove interior pine siding. It’s not like a Sheetrock wall, where I could just open up the wall and get access to the panel knockouts, run conduit and do what I need to do. If code permits, I’d like the electrical panel in a closet, wall/surface mounted, but I’m not familiar with NC electrical codes, I’ll leave that up to the cabin builders architect/designer, when we have it drawn up this spring.

Any comments and or recommendations, always appreciated!

 

[JAS]

What exactly are you concerned about and what would you need to do for this fireproofing?

Just simply installing cement board on the wall where I would mount it (and probably trying to paint it to make it look nicer)

Regarding the DPU & SHP2... I've gathered bits and pieces from YouTube and the FB Group. The panel has normal breakers, but also has relays internal to control individual circuits with the app. It looks very cool with all the programability that you can do as a homeowner. (I worry about Murphy's Law with those relays. IE: One or multiple going bad when I'm away and the entire circuit being offline until the relay can be replaced)

Regarding your guest cabins... I assume you don't have more than 12 circuits for the entire cabin. It would seem odd to add the SHP2 to the main panel for so few circuits. (Although I guess you could run the main feed right into the SHP2 if the wiring isn't too thick?)

I think you'd be better off using the EG4 to feed a "subpanel" (and save money). Since you're building new.. The main panel could be very small with only (1) 40-50 amp 240v circuit feeding the EG4 and then the EG4 would output to your subpanel containing all your circuits. You can program the EG4 however you want. But, it sounds like you would want it in backup only mode.

The EG4/Subpanel option is what I'm leaning towards. The subpanel I'm looking at also has a manual transfer switch built in that will let you switch back to the Main Panel if something goes wrong with the Inverter.

 

[Jchance]

Regarding your guest cabins... I assume you don't have more than 12 circuits for the entire cabin. It would seem odd to add the SHP2 to the main panel for so few circuits. (Although I guess you could run the main feed right into the SHP2 if the wiring isn't too thick?)

Thanks JAS!

Yes, the Eg4 looks like it’s more cost effective. I have to keep researching. I would like to take the 200amp grid power, connect it straight into an all in one device, have it go back out to feed the main panel, and be autonomous. I just watched Wills video on the Eg4 18KPV. This has that ability, however, it seems over kill for my needs. My other option is to by an automated transfer switch like the General RXSW200A3.

Here’s a photo of a 200 amp panel on a typical 14’x48’ cabin that I mange to take a screenshot of off one of the builders videos. There’s a lot more circuits than I thought, but I have no idea what they’re running in this particular build. I’m assuming there is an electric range, 240V dryer, HVAC, possibly a well pump, microwave etc.., (to name a few power hungry appliances). If I install LP appliances, my consumption and backup needs will be a lot less than this.

I would like the option of having the entire panel live if connected to a backup system. The hybrid systems are attractive, but I would never feed the grid, just would benefit from their built in ATS and automation features, but I don’t think it’s worth the extra money! We’re selling our Fl condo to make this happen, so the budget for solar might be around $10K, if and when we sell it, but who knows what we will have until it’s sold and the “du$t” settles! (Know anyone looking for a 3BRM FL condo let me know)

 

[MAC20121]

Hello All,

Looking for opinions on a EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultra w/ Smart Home Panel 2 or Buetti EP800 vs. a more DIY EG4 6000XP w/ Rack Mount Batteries...

Background:

I have been getting my feet wet with solar/battery backup systems on a small 12v scale for several years now. I have a system at my off-grid cabin with a GoPower IC2000 and 12v 170ah LFP diy battery. At home, I have a MPP 1012 AIO with a 300AH Rebel LFP battery running my Internet and computer rack.

I got permission from the "finance committee" to do a larger system at home. ? We lose power probably 4-5 times a year for significant time and at least once every few years is for several days to a week or more. We do have a backup generator that will run all of the essentials (just maybe not all at the same time) and that is fine for us. However, it is not automatic and my wife is not comfortable with the procedure of hooking it up. (This is amplified when the power goes out at night in a snow storm)

Solution:

Since I'm familiar with building systems from components, I had planned to put together an initial EG4 system with the 6000XP and (2) EG4 rack mount batteries. (knowing I could add on as needed) However, my wife has not been happy with my "experimenting/learning" with our existing 12v system and told me she would prefer a more "commercial" easy for her to understand/manage system (even though I told her it would be more expensive).

Sooo... that got me looking at the Bluetti EP800 and the upcoming Ecoflow Delta Pro Ultimate/Smart Home Panel 2 solutions... There is no firm pricing on the DPU/SHP2 yet. However, I'm gestimating that both solutions will run about $4000 - $6000 more for similar battery capacity as the EG4 system. Both setups will require me hiring an electrician to do the wiring for the associated critical circuit panels and wiring (I don't have physical room next to our main panel. So any system will have to be installed about 30' away on the other side of our basement.

Note: Solar panel connections will come later. Initially, just looking at an automatic battery backup system.

Pros:

• Both Bluetti and EcoFlow systems have a really nice compact form factor that are unobtrusive and or more easily mobile if necessary. Apps seem pretty nice.
• EcoFlow system has the best control over individual circuits and battery management
• EG4 system is much cheaper. Plug and play. All components can be swapped out and/or bypassed easily. Upgradeability is the most flexible and less costly. Even if company or product goes out of support, different vendor/products can be relatively easily swapped in place.

Concerns:

• Bluetti - Reputation for support is not great. Costlier to add capacity down the road. If Inverter goes down, the batteries are unusable with any other Inverter. What happens to support after they move on to a newer product? Or what if they go out of business?
• EcoFlow - Reputation for support is better. Costlier to add capacity down the road. Same problem as Bluetti if Inverter goes down. What happens if something goes screwy with the SHP2? Is it possible that my critical circuits could go down without being able to bypass? What happens to support after they move on to a newer product? (like from the SHP to the SHP2) Or what if they go out of business?
• EG4 - Takes up quite a bit more space. Requires wall mounting (and preferred fireproofing). In general more work to connect up. More intimidating to look at for my wife and understand what to do in an emergency. (Although, I think the "kill" switch on the 6000XP makes for a nice addition)

I think I know which direction I'm leaning. (Noting that if the pricing for the Ecoflow comes in close, I would be tempted for that).

Appreciate any thoughts people may have on the subject!


Thanks,

JAS

Saw add for Ecoflow Delta Pro Ultimate new model coming out shortly. way to go.
with Smart Home Panel 2. Probably will be pricey.
Saw Allpowers with excellent prices. R4000. not smart enough but if only looking for some smartness and more battery capacity.

 

[Jchance]

So I went on to shop solar’s website and did a questionnaire quote. They sent me a quote for a full kit, but it was only an 8K Sol-Ark system. I called them back and went over my loads, they said I was right, the system they quoted was not sufficient. Then they passed me on to another person, I believe it was tech support, they also agreed and said another department will be going over this quote and come up with another appropriate system. I’m a little puzzled that their sales person is just that, a sales person without much in-depth knowledge. Maybe I just got the wrong person on the phone that day.