Beginner home backup

[CtDiyer]

First a quick background... We lose power maybe 2-3 times a year for a max of about 2-3hrs each time(mainly due to bad weather). I have a 5.5kw gas gen that we used a few times via extension cords... Time to upgrade! I'd like to keep the gen (I sometimes use it in the yard) and go home battery (no plans for solar). Like most everyone, with the Ecoflow Ultra popping up everywhere it's caught my eye. I've been back and forth between DIY and Pre-made (Ecoflow). Main things I'd like to power are as follows (specs listed, rounded up)
1) Oil boiler (circular pump, motor, etc) 15amps (provides heat/hot water)
2) Kitchen fridge - 7amps
3) Garage Fridge - 3amps
4) Garage Freezer - 2amps
5) Sump Pump (1/3hp) - 6amps (not really worried about this since it has its own 12v/2k auto xfer inverter and 12v 100ah 2x batteries)
Obviously depending on the weather some won't need power (garage is not insulated). Summer we can use a fan or stay in the basement since it's below ground and the temp year round is between 64F-70F. So with all that said, I'd like the option of covering critical loads (weather-wise) and basic lighting. My magic number is about 8000watts running, so I based my numbers around that(taking into account the 80% useable wattage)... Ecoflow Ultra with a second battery comes in about $10k for 12k capacity and 7.2k running watts. Or (either) Aims Power 8k inverter (or Victron 48v/8000 inverter multi-plus 2) paired with EG4 LiFepo4 48v/100ah server batteries for about $7500 (fuses/wires/misc items included). Both would require me to install a xfer switch regardless. Only real difference is with the Ecoflow I can charge it off my standard 120v outlet where as the DIY I'll need to install a 230v outlet. I don't think I would ever expand much beyond either option (capacity wise). What do you guys recommend? Am I aiming to high for running watts? My home is about 1900sqft. According to my electrical bill we use between 600kwh (winter) to 1200kwh (summer/ no central air, only window AC's) a month. I'd appreciate any input on this, thanks in advance.

 

[hwy17]

With the stated goals a 240v gas or propane generator and a whole house generator inlet plug are gonna be cheaper than a battery. Battery is still fun though if you want to.

 

[prometheanfire]

If looking at battery backup only, I'd look at the new ecoflow system if you didn't want to diy something else. There's something to be said for turn key solutions.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

You could go with an inverter/charger/battery-bank, coupled with recharge from the grid or from your generator. This will cover you for outages, and you should get by with the existing generator, if it plays well with the charger (or an inverter-charger). This should come in at less cost than a whole-house generator, but it might not be as recognized in increasing your home value.

During an outage, having a battery-bank means the generator won't need to run continuously; it will be more like 4 hours out of 24, to recharge the bank if the grid is down. This means less fuel during a long-running outage, even though these seem to be rare in your case. You might also consider using the system to run some appliances during the day, and recharge from the grid at night, if electricity costs are less at those times.

You'll need to size everything according to your loads, and wire everything according to code & best practices, but basically, if you run from gen thru cords to devices now, then you can do something similar with the inverter. This would be your decision on continuing with cords, or getting an electrician involved.

The inverter/charger/battery-bank solution is not portable, like any compact "solar generator" device, but if portability isn't a requirement, you'll get more capacity for your investment, vs the solar generators, some of which can be quite expensive to "buy-in" to their system.

Hope this helps ...

 

[Zapper77]

Knowing what I do now. Turn Key systems are a great solution and the new eco ultra setup looks nice.

If I didn't go with a turn key system I'd use a single 6000XP and start with 1 or 2 (really need two 100ah) batteries. (Look for a vertical wall mount battery) Speaking of that PowerPro would work.


I would run a 50 amp AC feed to the 6000xp, XP load side I'd install a critical load panel and move over the required circuits.


Set the XP to AC priority 0000-2359. This would act like a giant UPS. Anytime the power goes out the XP would switch over to battery. If you got bored you could add 4 or 5 400 watt panels.

Word of caution once you start messing with solar it gets addictive!

Edit to add. I'm not sure about your estimated base load. My base load is 600 watts.

 

[Mattb4]

First a quick background... We lose power maybe 2-3 times a year for a max of about 2-3hrs each time(mainly due to bad weather). I have a 5.5kw gas gen that we used a few times via extension cords... Time to upgrade! I'd like to keep the gen (I sometimes use it in the yard) and go home battery (no plans for solar). Like most everyone, with the Ecoflow Ultra popping up everywhere it's caught my eye. I've been back and forth between DIY and Pre-made (Ecoflow). Main things I'd like to power are as follows (specs listed, rounded up)
1) Oil boiler (circular pump, motor, etc) 15amps (provides heat/hot water)
2) Kitchen fridge - 7amps
3) Garage Fridge - 3amps
4) Garage Freezer - 2amps
5) Sump Pump (1/3hp) - 6amps (not really worried about this since it has its own 12v/2k auto xfer inverter and 12v 100ah 2x batteries)
Obviously depending on the weather some won't need power (garage is not insulated). Summer we can use a fan or stay in the basement since it's below ground and the temp year round is between 64F-70F. So with all that said, I'd like the option of covering critical loads (weather-wise) and basic lighting. My magic number is about 8000watts running, so I based my numbers around that(taking into account the 80% useable wattage)... Ecoflow Ultra with a second battery comes in about $10k for 12k capacity and 7.2k running watts. Or (either) Aims Power 8k inverter (or Victron 48v/8000 inverter multi-plus 2) paired with EG4 LiFepo4 48v/100ah server batteries for about $7500 (fuses/wires/misc items included). Both would require me to install a xfer switch regardless. Only real difference is with the Ecoflow I can charge it off my standard 120v outlet where as the DIY I'll need to install a 230v outlet. I don't think I would ever expand much beyond either option (capacity wise). What do you guys recommend? Am I aiming to high for running watts? My home is about 1900sqft. According to my electrical bill we use between 600kwh (winter) to 1200kwh (summer/ no central air, only window AC's) a month. I'd appreciate any input on this, thanks in advance.

Your numbers will need tweaking. If you are indeed having a running wattage of 8K your 5.5kW generator obviously would not be powering everything. Plus which running wattage does not cover starting amperage of individual loads. Also your 600kWh up to 1200kWh are not explained although I guess you get this from your monthly electrical bill. Though 8kW over 24 hours would equal 192kWh per day.

So I would suggest getting a device such as a Kill-A-Watt meter and do some real world testing of your devices for daily draw. I would guess from the 600kWh+/mo it would be likely around 20-30kWh per day and around 1-2 kWh average running. You peak amounts occur when everything cycles on at once which you need to allow for.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Like most everyone, with the Ecoflow Ultra popping up everywhere it's caught my eye

It caught your eye because they advertised it

Ecoflow Ultra with a second battery comes in about $10k for 12k capacity and 7.2k running watts

No way I’d spend that much money for 12kWh of battery

There's something to be said for turn key solutions

yes, they are expensive for ‘convenience.’

if portability isn't a requirement, you'll get more capacity for your investment, vs the solar generators, some of which can be quite expensive to "buy-in" to their system

agreed.
For $10k I think it’s easily covered with an AIO with possible budget headroom for some solar panels. While solar isn’t ‘cheaper’ than grid per kWh even if you don’t go ‘huge’ it can partially pay its own way on a daily basis, plus have the possibility of not running the generator at all depending on the grid-down event.

My opinion. Ymmv.
But no way I’d buy a suitcase battery and trust it, myself, but I can’t get my head past the price of entry.
$10,000 budget may not be enough for total offgrid autonomy but with the right AIO set up SUB you will have instant switchover to battery backup for your desired critical loads with its internal transfer switch.

 

[Q-Dog]

If my power outages were never more than 3 hours I wouldn't worry about backup at all.

I went with a Victron based setup. I only back up 120 volt loads, and can charge it up from solar, or 120 volt grid connection, or generator. With solar we run some loads run off of the inverter 24/7, and can transfer more over to the backup when needed.

My signature is a link to my original setup and shows a couple of upgrades.

 

[CtDiyer]

Your numbers will need tweaking. If you are indeed having a running wattage of 8K your 5.5kW generator obviously would not be powering everything. Plus which running wattage does not cover starting amperage of individual loads. Also your 600kWh up to 1200kWh are not explained although I guess you get this from your monthly electrical bill. Though 8kW over 24 hours would equal 192kWh per day.

So I would suggest getting a device such as a Kill-A-Watt meter and do some real world testing of your devices for daily draw. I would guess from the 600kWh+/mo it would be likely around 20-30kWh per day and around 1-2 kWh average running. You peak amounts occur when everything cycles on at once which you need to allow for.

You are correct, my usage is based of my electric bill and the 8kw was based from future proofing myself. I do not want to get exactly what I need for critical loads now and have to add more (not alot of wall space if I go DIY for parallel units)in the future.

 

[CtDiyer]

Knowing what I do now. Turn Key systems are a great solution and the new eco ultra setup looks nice.

If I didn't go with a turn key system I'd use a single 6000XP and start with 1 or 2 (really need two 100ah) batteries. (Look for a vertical wall mount battery) Speaking of that PowerPro would work.


I would run a 50 amp AC feed to the 6000xp, XP load side I'd install a critical load panel and move over the required circuits.


Set the XP to AC priority 0000-2359. This would act like a giant UPS. Anytime the power goes out the XP would switch over to battery. If you got bored you could add 4 or 5 400 watt panels.

Word of caution once you start messing with solar it gets addictive!

Edit to add. I'm not sure about your estimated base load. My base load is 600 watts.

"Knowing what I do now. Turn Key systems are a great solution" do you have regrets about a DIY setup?

 

[Zapper77]

"Knowing what I do now. Turn Key systems are a great solution" do you have regrets about a DIY setup?

I like to tinker. I'd get bored with the limitations of a turn key setup.

 

[Zapper77]

"Knowing what I do now. Turn Key systems are a great solution" do you have regrets about a DIY setup?

Not all equipment is the same.
You get what you pay for.
Avoid Voltronic inverters!
Lithium batteries require maintenance if you want to use 100% of their capacity.

 

[DIYrich]

Eg4 18kpv and their battery. Simple.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Avoid Voltronic inverters

Care to elaborate?

 

[Zapper77]

Care to elaborate?

Voltronic is a manufacturer that builds inverters for other brands. Voltronic clones that include 6548 and 6048 appear to be junk.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Voltronic is a manufacturer that builds inverters for other brands. Voltronic clones that include 6548 and 6048 appear to be junk.

Really. I was under the impression that this older but improved design was a dependable low-to-mid-priced product from a couple of brands. I thought a gazillion people depend on them.
That’s strange news.

 

[Mattb4]

You are correct, my usage is based of my electric bill and the 8kw was based from future proofing myself. I do not want to get exactly what I need for critical loads now and have to add more (not alot of wall space if I go DIY for parallel units)in the future.

Understood. It is hard to design for future growth. It also may be a mistake to if some items go obsolete in the time between initial install and planned upgrade time. This can happen with adding parallel model AIO's or even power packs such as the Ecoflow. No guarantee models and companies survived into the future.

 

[Zapper77]

Really. I was under the impression that this older but improved design was a dependable low-to-mid-priced product from a couple of brands. I thought a gazillion people depend on them.
That’s strange news.

Maybe two years ago. The new stuff is junk. I hear the lower voltage MPPTs are still good.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Maybe two years ago. The new stuff is junk. I hear the lower voltage MPPTs are still good.

6548 is only 250V. That’s lower voltage.

 

[Zapper77]

6548 is only 250V. That’s lower voltage.

Which brand name?