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EG4 PowerPro cycle count question

Ok, but since they don't actually list the version numbers on their firmware downloads, how do I get that firmware?
I just downloaded the firmware zip from EG4's website and it is titled "PowerPro Heater logic change.hex" and it appears to be dated 2024-02-27.
Ah. They have a completely different zip file listed on the Indoor battery's page.
If you go here: https://eg4electronics.com/categories/batteries/eg4-wallmount-indoor-280ah-lithium-battery/ and click "firmware" the zip file contains a "All Weather & Indoor S02T11.hex" that is dated 2024-06-28.
(The other weird thing is that this zip doesn't contain any of the RS485 update stuff at all)

@EG4_Eric , is this file also compatible with the outdoor units?
 
This is confusing, needs to be cleaned up.....
-Outdoor and indoor PowerPro using same FW?
-BMS vs LCD FW upgrades use same cable? Cause some docs say RS485.
-The cable description on Sig Solar needs update to include its use and what products.

If indoor and outdoor the same lets get the docs to be the same. Including cables descriptions. Sig Solar, and others
 
kampto said:
This is confusing, needs to be cleaned up.....
-Outdoor and indoor Powerwall using same FW?
-BMS vs LCD FW upgrades use same cable? Cause some docs say RS485.
-The cable description on Sig Solar needs update to include its use and what products.

If indoor and outdoor the same lets get the docs to be the same. Including cables descriptions. Sig Solar, and others
Click to expand...
EG4 firmware and update process is a mess, poorly documented, and poorly understood by the folks at SS (and EG4 as well). I suspect they inherited more than a little technical debt from LuxPower (or are still farming out their firmware 'development' to LuxPower's Elbonian SW development 'process').

I made copious notes during my battery upgrade process, and I still never want to do it again. At the very least it requires taking the batteries offline one at a time (yes, including the primary battery at address 1) to upgrade the firmware(s), and while there may be a way to prevent the inverters from shutting down during the upgrade procedure, I'm not 100% certain what it is. Which means plan for a power outage because you have an ESS, sigh.

There is some hope for relief in the latest rumors about updating the battery firmware from the inverter, but I'm not holding my breath.

SS, EG4, LuxPower, please prove me wrong!
 
Thunderproof said:
@EG4_Eric were there any other noteworthy changes/improvements that would warrant the firmware upgrade process? If all it changes is the
cycle count, I'm not in a big rush to get it done.
Click to expand...
The changelog for the RS232 is posted on the thread. The update does in fact fix the issue with the cycle count.

Brucey said:
Just to clarify, the BMS tools is correctly tracking cycle count and the firmware update just fixes an issue with the web monitoring cycle count? So not a warranty concern?
Click to expand...
You can view the cycle count using the older version of the BMS tools. The update will fix the issue with the cycle count on the monitoring website.

Mr.Hyde said:
Ah. They have a completely different zip file listed on the Indoor battery's page.
If you go here: https://eg4electronics.com/categories/batteries/eg4-wallmount-indoor-280ah-lithium-battery/ and click "firmware" the zip file contains a "All Weather & Indoor S02T11.hex" that is dated 2024-06-28.
(The other weird thing is that this zip doesn't contain any of the RS485 update stuff at all)

is this file also compatible with the outdoor units?
Click to expand...
I apologize for the confusion. Our website is currently undergoing updates, but yes, the RS232 update will work for both indoor and outdoor batteries. As of now, you can download the firmware with this update from the indoor battery page. We are working on making it available on the outdoor battery page as well.

Again, I apologize for any inconvenience. I understand this is confusing and frustrating. We are working on trying making things easier for everyone.
 
EG4_Eric said:
I understand this is confusing and frustrating. We are working on trying making things easier for everyone.
Click to expand...
Please let us know when you get this sorted out.

My batteries are at RS485 S02T17 plus the Battery Heater RS232 update, which was the latest for the PP Outdoor as of a couple of weeks ago.

But the RS232 update that fixes the cycle count is an un-numbered update that’s part of the Indoor PP battery RS232 subsection of RS485 update S02T11? I should use the hex file named “All Weather & Indoor S02T11” for the RS232 update?

And there’s no way to tell what RS232 version you are at. And the CFO is unlikely to be happy with turning the power off to ‘fix’ this problem. And it counts “80% DOD” cycles, which is good to know, but not clear if it’s relevant to the warranty. 🤷‍♂️
 
wpns said:
Please let us know when you get this sorted out.

My batteries are at RS485 S02T17 plus the Battery Heater RS232 update, which was the latest for the PP Outdoor as of a couple of weeks ago.

But the RS232 update that fixes the cycle count is an un-numbered update that’s part of the Indoor PP battery RS232 subsection of RS485 update S02T11? I should use the hex file named “All Weather & Indoor S02T11” for the RS232 update?

And there’s no way to tell what RS232 version you are at. And the CFO is unlikely to be happy with turning the power off to ‘fix’ this problem. And it counts “80% DOD” cycles, which is good to know, but not clear if it’s relevant to the warranty. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
I agree that 80% DOD, while fine for marketing purposes as a typical use-case, is misleading for a true cycle count and also bad practice for warranty purposes, especially given the fact that they already have been miscalculating it all along. A cycle is a full discharge and charge, in this case 280ah, anything else is not a cycle but part of a cycle. It may improve longevity to charge and discharge in smaller increments but that is irrelevant to what constitutes a cycle.

Does the update fix past incorrect cycle counts or only new cycles?
 
At least EG4 recognizes what the warrantied discharge amount should be. Even if the cycles are wrong, the BMS should still show what the total discharge amount is.
 
Rumast21 said:
At least EG4 recognizes what the warrantied discharge amount should be. Even if the cycles are wrong, the BMS should still show what the total discharge amount is.
Click to expand...
But do they? https://eg4electronics.com/warranty/warranty-eg4-14-3kwh-powerpro-wallmount-all-weather/ says 10 years parts, but if they have to replace the whole unit (welded cells, remember) then it's 10 years prorated. The spec sheet says all kinda of great things about the 15+ year design life, the 8,000 cycles at .5c to 80% DOD, the 83 MWHR lifetime production, but the warranty doesn't specify any of those things.
 
wpns said:
But do they? https://eg4electronics.com/warranty/warranty-eg4-14-3kwh-powerpro-wallmount-all-weather/ says 10 years parts, but if they have to replace the whole unit (welded cells, remember) then it's 10 years prorated. The spec sheet says all kinda of great things about the 15+ year design life, the 8,000 cycles at .5c to 80% DOD, the 83 MWHR lifetime production, but the warranty doesn't specify any of those things.
Click to expand...
The only batteries I know of that have a full 10 year non prorated warranty are the Trophy batteries.
 
wpns said:
But do they? https://eg4electronics.com/warranty/warranty-eg4-14-3kwh-powerpro-wallmount-all-weather/ says 10 years parts, but if they have to replace the whole unit (welded cells, remember) then it's 10 years prorated. The spec sheet says all kinda of great things about the 15+ year design life, the 8,000 cycles at .5c to 80% DOD, the 83 MWHR lifetime production, but the warranty doesn't specify any of those things.
Click to expand...
Yes it seems like just covers working or not working. No stipulations on reduced capacity over time etc?

Screenshot_20240629_111452_Chrome.jpg
 
Will there ever be a chance of updating battery RS232 or RS485 firmware remotely or from the cloud, so we don't have to take the whole system down for the better part of a day to update six batteries?

I mean, yes I want the cycle count fix, but updating six batteries is going to be <ahem> time-consuming and fraught with danger of the "Soft-Bricked-Battery" variety.

It looks like the "PowerPro RS485 EG4 18kPV Remote update.bin" might have something to do with that, but there's no version number or release notes...

I'm currently showing BMS: Z02T17 on my batteries, how does "PowerPro RS485 EG4 18kPV Remote update.bin" compare to that?

Thanks!
 
Rumast21 said:
Thanks. It's not quite clear from the guide. Does the battery need to be disconnected from the inverter during the update?
Click to expand...
It's pretty clear from the guide, but it may be difficult to find the right guide, as it's a twisty little maze of filenames, all alike:
Make sure you are down the

/51.2V 280ah PowerPro AllWeather Firmware/PowerPro RS232 Update/51.2V 280ah AllWeather WallMount & Indoor WallMount-S02T11/

path in the directory structure.
Make sure you are using the correct cable as designated in:
Cables Needed For Updating EG4 Batteries Categorized (2).pdf
Yeah, also confusing, feel free to ask for clarification here. After 3 tries, SS sent me SKU:1511221 for free.
Now open:

RS232 Update Guide AllWeather WallMount & Indoor Wallmount.pdf

Page 1 says in no uncertain terms:

Remove all cat communication cables between the Battery-Comm that
are paralleling each battery, failure to do so will result in a soft bricked
bms if attempting to RS232 update multiple batteries at the same time.

To be safe, disconnect any Inverter cables plugged into RS485/CAN of this battery (only one battery should have this), and turn off the battery output breaker so the battery is completely disconnected. Then change the DIP switches as detailed in the PDF above, and I'm pretty sure when you click "Start Update" it asks you to power-cycle the battery.

As near as I can tell, the battery ONLY talks RS232 at 115,200 baud (with a particular handshake?) on certain undocumented pins of the Battery-Comm connector (they say 4 and 5, but don't acknowledge a ground reference, and the cable at https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-rs232-firmware-update-cable-ll/ shows 1,2,8) immediately after a power cycle.

Yeah, confusing, and fraught with peril, but once you figure it out you should be good. Note that there's no way to tell what RS232 firmware you are running, so either keep track manually (label maker is your friend) or always apply the latest one.

RS-485 is comparatively easy, and there are some hints that the 18Kpv will be able to update the R485 firmware through the existing closed-loop comms, but there's no confirmation of that yet.
 
wpns said:
It's pretty clear from the guide, but it may be difficult to find the right guide, as it's a twisty little maze of filenames, all alike:
Make sure you are down the

/51.2V 280ah PowerPro AllWeather Firmware/PowerPro RS232 Update/51.2V 280ah AllWeather WallMount & Indoor WallMount-S02T11/

path in the directory structure.
Make sure you are using the correct cable as designated in:
Cables Needed For Updating EG4 Batteries Categorized (2).pdf
Yeah, also confusing, feel free to ask for clarification here. After 3 tries, SS sent me SKU:1511221 for free.
Now open:

RS232 Update Guide AllWeather WallMount & Indoor Wallmount.pdf

Page 1 says in no uncertain terms:

Remove all cat communication cables between the Battery-Comm that
are paralleling each battery, failure to do so will result in a soft bricked
bms if attempting to RS232 update multiple batteries at the same time.

To be safe, disconnect any Inverter cables plugged into RS485/CAN of this battery (only one battery should have this), and turn off the battery output breaker so the battery is completely disconnected. Then change the DIP switches as detailed in the PDF above, and I'm pretty sure when you click "Start Update" it asks you to power-cycle the battery.

As near as I can tell, the battery ONLY talks RS232 at 115,200 baud (with a particular handshake?) on certain undocumented pins of the Battery-Comm connector (they say 4 and 5, but don't acknowledge a ground reference, and the cable at https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-rs232-firmware-update-cable-ll/ shows 1,2,8) immediately after a power cycle.

Yeah, confusing, and fraught with peril, but once you figure it out you should be good. Note that there's no way to tell what RS232 firmware you are running, so either keep track manually (label maker is your friend) or always apply the latest one.

RS-485 is comparatively easy, and there are some hints that the 18Kpv will be able to update the R485 firmware through the existing closed-loop comms, but there's no confirmation of that yet.
Click to expand...
Did your incorrect cycles change with the new software update or does it just fix the issue going forward?
 
Rumast21 said:
Did your incorrect cycles change with the new software update or does it just fix the issue going forward?
Click to expand...
I haven’t done it yet, and may not for a while. I need to see if there’s another firmware update for the 18Kpv to fix the generator dry contact issue before I start chasing other issues and taking my system down for any reason.

Since cycles aren’t a warranty issue, and I’m up to 12, it’s a lower priority.

I wouldn’t imagine they’d be able to correct the previous cycle count, but maybe there’s a way to use total energy transferred to calculate cycles. 🤷‍♂️
 
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