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Airflow gap? Unistrut mounted to shingles

thomBangor

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Bangor, ME
Has anybody mounted panels close to asphault roof shingles?

I'm thinking about mounting my panels 1.5" (thickness of unistrut) from the shingles. Would like to know if this is sufficient to move enough heat away from shingles to avoid shingle damage. Anyone tested it?

Thanks


e.g.: sort of like this, but my unistrut will run vertically so water can flow
 
Has anybody mounted panels close to asphault roof shingles?

I'm thinking about mounting my panels 1.5" (thickness of unistrut) from the shingles. Would like to know if this is sufficient to move enough heat away from shingles to avoid shingle damage. Anyone tested it?

Thanks


e.g.: sort of like this, but my unistrut will run vertically so water can flow
I had also considered other options myself though I have metal roofs I think you would really be better off going with one of the pre-made designs though there is sufficiently more cost there's a lot of adjustability. Furthermore if you have to have your roof replaced you want simplicity in the design of your installation I feel your best off just picking a system going with it and just included in your overall cost per panel as you expand.

That being said unistrut is a great material to work with it will lasts an incredibly long time very adaptable but may add complications to complications to a roof mounted installation. You need to have some kind of adjustment at the roof attachment locations to get all your rails parallel to one another.

this adjustable space will address the contact of the galvanized steel with the asphalt shingles which contain metals, minerals and substances to retard biological growth wich can react with some metals. Spacing of the rails will also litigate expansion / contraction of dissimilar materials

Also consider the sealing of the the roof penetration.

Hope this was helpful
 
Yeah my plan is to put a whole bunch of roofing schmoo between the rails and the shingles to keep the seal. Maybe more schmoo on top of the screws after. Might also try ice guard.

I'm going to build a size jig to keep the rails parallel.

Galvanized steel next to roof/aluminumPanel is a problem, but my understanding is that chemical reaction proceeds vary slowly when not in the presence of water. I've seen some similar installations that put a Tee shaped rubber strip between the panels and it essentially makes a second 'solar roof' on top of the asphault roof. My guess is that it will be very dry.

Replacing the roof is one of the reasons I like the unistrut model. If I need to redo the roof I'll just unscrew the unistrut nuts, pull the panels off, and then unscrew the roofing screws that hold down the unistrut. I think I can do the whole roof in a couple hours.

What I don't know is how much of an air gap is needed between the panels and the shingle. Forum contributors here state that the panels get hot and need air, but I haven't found anyone publishing measurements of airgap vs temperature yet.

I have similar temperature questions about the distance between vinyl siding and panels, and whether anyone has tested with any thing insulative barriers (e.g. aluminum foil, 1/8" foam, etc).
 
Yeah my plan is to put a whole bunch of roofing schmoo between the rails and the shingles to keep the seal. Maybe more schmoo on top of the screws after. Might also try ice guard.

I'm going to build a size jig to keep the rails parallel.

Galvanized steel next to roof/aluminumPanel is a problem, but my understanding is that chemical reaction proceeds vary slowly when not in the presence of water. I've seen some similar installations that put a Tee shaped rubber strip between the panels and it essentially makes a second 'solar roof' on top of the asphault roof. My guess is that it will be very dry.

Replacing the roof is one of the reasons I like the unistrut model. If I need to redo the roof I'll just unscrew the unistrut nuts, pull the panels off, and then unscrew the roofing screws that hold down the unistrut. I think I can do the whole roof in a couple hours.

What I don't know is how much of an air gap is needed between the panels and the shingle. Forum contributors here state that the panels get hot and need air, but I haven't found anyone publishing measurements of airgap vs temperature yet.

I have similar temperature questions about the distance between vinyl siding and panels, and whether anyone has tested with any thing insulative barriers (e.g. aluminum foil, 1/8" foam, etc).
These are some fasteners designed to work with unistrut

20240723_141613.jpg20240723_141635.jpg
This is the kind of mount that needs to be assembled for a roof-mounted structure

20240723_141627.jpg20240723_141620.jpg Of course many other options will work as well.


Cutting corners rarely pays off in the long run it is usually the ladder.

You always want to make sure that your connections and connection points will outlast the installation.

These are some of the sealants that I use not recommended for your installation but they are not cheap never the less. My hopes are that their quality will ensure worry free reliability in the long run.

Don't forget our time is also a valuable expense. Make it count.

I am not trying to discredit you or your ideas in any way I just don't want to see them fail.

Bananaman321
 

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I would not want to rely on "roofing schmoo" to maintain a watertight seal. Roof mounts designed for the job provide 2 or 3 forms or water exclusion in their design. The solar feet I used have a puck that mounts with sealant, then is covered with a flashing. The mounting bolts have rubber washers to limit water intrusion.

The roof seems like a foolish place to cut corners. There are plenty of engineered solar panel mounting systems on the market that have flashing systems, proper wind ratings and panel grounding built in. And probably lighter than the steel struts you want to use.

I used kits from Tamarack that can ship via UPS and include everything you need in the box ... you just need to add the proper feet/mounts that work for your type of roof.
 
El Cheapo:
Fabricated from 1 inch square aluminum tube and 2 inches aluminum angle.
It raises the bottom of the unistrut 2-3/8 inches from the metal roof's flat surface.
Home depot henry roof sealant used.
Not intended to be inspected. LOL

Unistrut.jpg
 
Here's an interesting story from my recent past. A friend of mine's father built his own house. He is OCD so everything in his home is constructed perfectly. It will never leak, and will likely last 7 generations.

I purchased my home with a "screen porch" with OSB floors (the housing crisis has not been kind to those of us that need homes). A year into ownership I finally had the time to dig into that porch and found out that it was completely rotten from ground up to 16" on the studs. It was on the verge of falling over, and I condemned/sealed it and started investigating repair.

I asked my friend's father for advice (he is too old to help with the work) and mentioned that I'd like to keep the roof intact, in order to keep the process simpler/quicker and because the roof was in great shape. My friend's father's advice was that since the job could not be done perfectly, there was no point in doing it unless you tear down the roof, regrade the lot (including cutting down the trees, removing the fence, destroying the sidewalk so that an excavator could get in there, etc), rip off all of the siding (for color matching), and on and on.

I decided to take a chance, and follow my own instincts instead of following his advice. I redesigned the porch and hired a hardworking retired handyman at $35/hour to be my partner in framing it. I went out of my way to use water resistant materials and separate my rebuilt room from any water/ice/etc. He and I rebuilt the room in a few months, it passed inspection, and is now indistinguishable from the rest of the home (according to guests, and more importantly my wife). It is stronger, more weather resistant, more stable, better insulated, and better looking than any other room in my home.

The rebuilt room cost me about 1/10 of what the advised construction would have cost in both time and money.

When I was much younger I had a mentor teaching me to build things who taught me that "Perfection is the enemy of Good Enough."

I appreciate the very good advice people give me in this forum, and have enough wisdom to understand where they are coming from and why it is important. I also have enough experience to know that if I took every perfectionist suggestion offered to me here, that building a solar system would require about 1000 hours and $30000.

Since I have 100 hours and $8000 to spend, there will be times when I can't follow good advice.

In the case of this garage roof, it is already past its lifetime and needs to be replaced with metal to match my home. I believe that my roof seal implementation will keep enough water out, but if I'm wrong there isn't much consequence. The things in the garage aren't water sensitive, and I can get up there and apply more sealant wherever any leaks are found. In a few years that roof will be replaced and forgotten.

Thanks again
 
Perfection is just a place we set our sights (though rarely achieved) so when things go afoul it does not end catastrophically.

"Aim small miss Small" is a phrase used in many fields to describe a method that involves aiming at a small target to reduce the likelihood of a larger error:

When we compromise and then we compromise and then compromise again we're only growing closer to certain failure.

I believe our time to be the valuable commodity here.

BTW I am not an avid promoter of the word perfection because I don't believe it exists. But it gives somewhere to set our sights.

Bananaman321
 
Me too. Every year that passes I have less and less free time. Trying to fit in a macroscopic project (like home renovation, new solar installs, etc) is getting really tough.
Used racking and mount systems are also an option a lot of times people will get new solar installed because of technological advancements in panel output per square foot and limited reallistate and replace with new hardware and you can pick their used stuff up for a fraction of new.

Check classifieds, marketplace in your local installers.
 
Used racking and mount systems are also an option a lot of times people will get new solar installed because of technological advancements in panel output per square foot and limited reallistate and replace with new hardware and you can pick their used stuff up for a fraction of new.

Check classifieds, marketplace in your local installers.
Another option could be a solar carport or shelter using the panels as the roof structure

I've seen stables and out buildings with nothing more than solar panels in place of roofing materials to keep out the elements
 
I'd just use the Tamarack for everything, it's really nice and really easy. (Coming from a guy who used Tamarack on his roofs and strut on his ground mount. )
I'd also replace the roof now vs ripping it all off to replace it later.
I was considering using those for roof mounts I kind of like the accessibility and ease of access for ground mounts though especially when you're not limited on space.
 
I was considering using those for roof mounts I kind of like the accessibility and ease of access for ground mounts though especially when you're not limited on space.
When I build my dream home I plan to go ground mounts only and maybe put a vertical array on the S facing garage wall for dedicated winter production.
 
When I build my dream home I plan to go ground mounts only and maybe put a vertical array on the S facing garage wall for dedicated winter production.

We should start a thread on this.
Sounds good to me. Its your idea Run with it.

Its high time we some good content around here anyways

You've got my vote: 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
 
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I'd also replace the roof now vs ripping it all off to replace it later.
I disagree. The roof doesn't leak. I don't need to replace it now. One of the biggest mistakes I made in my youth was replacing a roof that wasn't leaking because somebody advised me that it needed replacing. Replacing the roof now would mean waiting until summer 2025 to do solar install, which means throwing in the garbage 1 year of electric bills.
 
It is kind of an impossible question to answer. EVERY situation is different. Panels are different, roofs are different, mounting angles are different, climate is different.

So my answer still stands: more gap is better. I want as much air gap as I can get here in south Louisiana. It may not matter in Maine where ambient temps overall are lower. I mounted my rails as far off the roof as the mounts would allow and considered adding risers to my roof mounts to get more space under the panels. I ultimately abandoned that idea because it was going to affect the wind rating of my mounting system.
 
It is kind of an impossible question to answer. EVERY situation is different. Panels are different, roofs are different, mounting angles are different, climate is different.
I agree more gap is better, but more gap is more money and more time. Obviously we all have to make tradeoffs. In my case I'm trying to get as much as possible first so that I can make an informed decision about the tradeoff I'm making.


If I'm the first to put panels 1.5" using a direct-to roof-unistrut mount, then I guess I'll be the one to post here and share the data. If the shingles fail then I can either install another set of rails ($$$$) or add a big bushing underneath ($)

I'm going to have to do a similar experiment for panels near vinyl siding unless somebody here has that data.
 

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