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If ground deploying in uk weather is it possible to have enough panels to heat and cook through winter with solar alone?

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Gueyog8a7

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I am talking about directing all the power to those two things for those shortest 2-3 months, or near enough.

For a single person is it possible if there is a whole field available to deploy panels? A large part of that would be for vegetable production but I wonder if with enough panels they could cover for cooking and heating in the winter months.

I think once I have room, as in land, then I could do without heating at all maybe as I would then have storage space to just wear as many layers as required and stash when not using whereas living in the van the largest limitation has been space.

For condensation I found fans/ventilation really effective and they take hardly any juice. So keep self warm with layers and keep condensation at bay with adequate airflow.

So then that just leaves cooking a couple of hours a day.
 
Heating isn’t a good idea to run from solar in a cloudy region. On overcast but not ‘dark’ clouds here in Vermont I get about 5%- 10% at best- during The Dark Months.

So if you want to make say 1500Wh/day you’re gonna need 6kW of panels, minimum. And still a petrol backup generator.

I use 1.5-2kWh / day running a fridge and a gas furnace, lights, coffeemaker, phone charger, etc.
2000W of panels isn’t quite enough during the winter dark months. In the summer I’m way overpanelled.

So first thing is figure out you daily average kWh requirements and then figure out how to plan for that. Everything else will be obvious once there.
Gueyog8a7 said:
wonder if with enough panels they could cover for cooking and heating in the winter months.
Click to expand...
Gueyog8a7 said:
is it possible
Click to expand...
It is possible but it’s not practical or cost effective. Simplest lowest initial cost heat is probably a woodstove or pellet heater.
 
The UK is too far north to get good PV production in winter, if you add in all the clouds its even worse and don't you also suffer from north sloping site. Heating and cooking would be much easier using wood during winter, coppice some fast growing trees like willow instead. My PV production mid winter is a 10th of the summer production, to get enough winter production you will then produce too much during the summer plus the cost of the panels and mounts.
 
Personally I'd look at a solid fuel range or stove I had an amazing little esse range cooker that I took out of a narrow boat it was tiny but had a fully functional oven and a back boiler for hot water, think I paid only 200/300 for it at the time as no one wanted to move it. I had a quick look on eBay but I only saw a giant one they wanted a few thousand for but if you keep an eye out you can generally find a bargain as they're so heavy people will just sell them purely for getting someone else to move it.

maxresdefault.jpg
Mine was similar to this but the previous model
 
Gueyog8a7 said:
For a single person is it possible if there is a whole field available to deploy panels?
Click to expand...
Yes, obviously! My 16 panels (6.6kWp) ground mounts produced just under 15kWh in the worst week and about 800Wh in the worst day in December in the UK. The occupy an area of less than 50m2 with space for maintenance around them.

So, if you have a field of say half a hectare (about 1.25 acres), you could fit in (5000/50) * 16 = 1600 panels. That should produce over 75kWh per day, which should be sufficient for heating :)

As others have said though, other options might be cheaper ;)
 
ThaiTaffy said:
Personally I'd look at a solid fuel range or stove I had an amazing little esse range cooker that I took out of a narrow boat it was tiny but had a fully functional oven and a back boiler for hot water, think I paid only 200/300 for it at the time as no one wanted to move it. I had a quick look on eBay but I only saw a giant one they wanted a few thousand for but if you keep an eye out you can generally find a bargain as they're so heavy people will just sell them purely for getting someone else to move it.

View attachment 231091
Mine was similar to this but the previous model
Click to expand...
1+ for this. There are plenty of Rayburn stoves around at about 300 quid.
 
I recently watched a video calculating the size of array for heating a 100sq meter house over winter in Poland (similar solar radiation to UK in winter - depends on location of course, it will be differentvery in Cornwall than in the Scottish Highlands).

The house was well insulated it was using a heat pump and induction hob for cooking. I don't remember all the details, but during summer a 10kW peak array was more than enough. There was a battery for 24h of consumption if I remember correctly.

During winter 50kW array was still not enough. Almost all of December and about two weeks in January were still in red.

One can extrapolate from this. What size is your home? What construction/insulation type? What is the location?

Just saying UK is very vague :) I lived inthe UK for almost 2 decades so I know how different the conditions can be. I once rented a very pretty semi detached Yorkshire stone built house in Halifax. There was zero insulation in a thick stone wall. There were days in winter when I came from work and touching the wall outside and inside(near the door) the outside was warmer 🤣

I think you'd need a MW array to heat it...
 
12VoltInstalls said:
Heating isn’t a good idea to run from solar in a cloudy region. On overcast but not ‘dark’ clouds here in Vermont I get about 5%- 10% at best- during The Dark Months.

So if you want to make say 1500Wh/day you’re gonna need 6kW of panels, minimum. And still a petrol backup generator.

I use 1.5-2kWh / day running a fridge and a gas furnace, lights, coffeemaker, phone charger, etc.
2000W of panels isn’t quite enough during the winter dark months. In the summer I’m way overpanelled.

So first thing is figure out you daily average kWh requirements and then figure out how to plan for that. Everything else will be obvious once there.


It is possible but it’s not practical or cost effective. Simplest lowest initial cost heat is probably a woodstove or pellet heater.
Click to expand...
Hmm I already have a diesel cooker and heater in my van which is powered by the nominal electric 12v supply. Guess I would stick with that and stock up on diesel.

I do like the idea though of being totally self sufficient for all energy and food / water. In that case it seems wood would be the more practical option given there will be a small woodland on the land.
 
kommando said:
The UK is too far north to get good PV production in winter, if you add in all the clouds its even worse and don't you also suffer from north sloping site. Heating and cooking would be much easier using wood during winter, coppice some fast growing trees like willow instead. My PV production mid winter is a 10th of the summer production, to get enough winter production you will then produce too much during the summer plus the cost of the panels and mounts.
Click to expand...
No it is not north facing. That was my second choice and I have been able (pending if all goes through) to get my first choice which will be flat and southerly aspect. It is in a valley but half way up it. Remains to be seen how the solar yields will be as not there yet.

How much acreage would you need of willow for how long supply per month? There will already be almost an acre of woodland coming with it but no idea what species. Might as well use that and then replant willow then. Or could I get away with coppicing the existing stuff and have it grow back? Would all depend on the species I guess which remains to be seen!

Quite a lot of questions will not be answered until there so wait and see.
 
ThaiTaffy said:
Personally I'd look at a solid fuel range or stove I had an amazing little esse range cooker that I took out of a narrow boat it was tiny but had a fully functional oven and a back boiler for hot water, think I paid only 200/300 for it at the time as no one wanted to move it. I had a quick look on eBay but I only saw a giant one they wanted a few thousand for but if you keep an eye out you can generally find a bargain as they're so heavy people will just sell them purely for getting someone else to move it.

View attachment 231091
Mine was similar to this but the previous model
Click to expand...
How was the smoke smell which exhausted into the room? That is the main drawback for me, but has many many positive, mainly being sustainability and self sufficiency (vs diesel which you are then tied to filling stations) so am definitely interested in looking into this route.

Having said that, another left field idea, if growing crops to eat, could you grow some kind of oil crop to use for a biofuel cooker/heater? Would have to look into the calculations to see how much space would be required as to whether that was feasible as will only have a couple of acres to work with.

Electric just seems like the holy grail of clean and sustainable so in theory at least it seems like it would be worth going the extra nine yards to have everything running off solar. That guy Kris Harbour made a hydro electric generator but I don't think the tiny stream that will be on the land would put out much power! Although can't you harness it by damming, I guess within limits of the initial water flow amount.
 
SeaGal said:
Yes, obviously! My 16 panels (6.6kWp) ground mounts produced just under 15kWh in the worst week and about 800Wh in the worst day in December in the UK. The occupy an area of less than 50m2 with space for maintenance around them.

So, if you have a field of say half a hectare (about 1.25 acres), you could fit in (5000/50) * 16 = 1600 panels. That should produce over 75kWh per day, which should be sufficient for heating :)

As others have said though, other options might be cheaper ;)
Click to expand...
Haha, hmm yes and also as someone else said it would be a terrible waste in summer, unless you found a good use for it.

Maybe growing exotics with hydroponics in summer? but then you have planning permission issues (as with many panels I read) of putting up polytunnels. I think I read you can install them up to a certain height without PP issues.

Hmm how much is 50m2? can't picture it. 50m2 doesn't sound like much? I just looked and there are 4046m2 in an acre so if I have a couple of acres, which I have a rough idea of the size, that would be only a tiny fraction of the space. So on that reckoning it sounds very achievable. Price wise for the panels it would probably be similar to the cost of buying a hefty wood stove which seem to run into a couple of grand for an efficient one. Ok maybe add more for inverter and the SCC but electric but still it would be worth paying extra for that clean energy I think as long as it was not prohibitively expensive.
 
DIYrich said:
Search for Agrisolar on ideas to farm under solar panels.

Some type of net metering may allow you to bank enough in the summer to pay for winter consumption.
Click to expand...
By net metering do you mean selling it back to the grid? Not an option for me as I will not be on the grid! This whole enterprise it to get off it so that would be a step backwards!
 
Luk88 said:
I recently watched a video calculating the size of array for heating a 100sq meter house over winter in Poland (similar solar radiation to UK in winter - depends on location of course, it will be differentvery in Cornwall than in the Scottish Highlands).

The house was well insulated it was using a heat pump and induction hob for cooking. I don't remember all the details, but during summer a 10kW peak array was more than enough. There was a battery for 24h of consumption if I remember correctly.

During winter 50kW array was still not enough. Almost all of December and about two weeks in January were still in red.

One can extrapolate from this. What size is your home? What construction/insulation type? What is the location?

Just saying UK is very vague :) I lived inthe UK for almost 2 decades so I know how different the conditions can be. I once rented a very pretty semi detached Yorkshire stone built house in Halifax. There was zero insulation in a thick stone wall. There were days in winter when I came from work and touching the wall outside and inside(near the door) the outside was warmer 🤣

I think you'd need a MW array to heat it...
Click to expand...
Well it is just a piece of open land so far and (if/) when I get there will be starting from scratch so no house yet. Thinking of making a wooden shack from the existing woodland. So it would only be small. I have been in a van for a year so used to living small. So maybe just a bit bigger, like the size of a couple of greenhouses in space, single room. I was thinking if you dug the house underground then that is insulation taken care of isn't it by the whole of the earth? :D

As for location in the middle belt of wales.
 
Chispas said:
1+ for this. There are plenty of Rayburn stoves around at about 300 quid.
Click to expand...

Not all country's you can do this.
In eu some country like the Netherlands (uk is out of the EU and i hope the Dutch will do)
You can not use that .
Even gas are going out of the homes.
You have to go full electric from the grid .
Even new house beult today are from the gas of .

Even de BBQ , the country think to set a ban on it.
 
Gueyog8a7 said:
How was the smoke smell which exhausted into the room? That is the main drawback for me, but has many many positive, mainly being sustainability and self sufficiency (vs diesel which you are then tied to filling stations) so am definitely interested in looking into this route.
Click to expand...
Aslong as your flue has adequate pull it's not that bad you have some while the chimney is heating up initially but the smell clears as the burner is obviously drawing air from the room to feed the fire
Gueyog8a7 said:
Having said that, another left field idea, if growing crops to eat, could you grow some kind of oil crop to use for a biofuel cooker/heater? Would have to look into the calculations to see how much space would be required as to whether that was feasible as will only have a couple of acres to work with.
Click to expand...
It's finding a good safe way to burn it that's the issue personally I'd be more inclined to use old methods for harvesting firewood like coppicing see here https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/discover/nature/trees-plants/what-is-coppicing
Gueyog8a7 said:
Electric just seems like the holy grail of clean and sustainable so in theory at least it seems like it would be worth going the extra nine yards to have everything running off solar. That guy Kris Harbour made a hydro electric generator but I don't think the tiny stream that will be on the land would put out much power! Although can't you harness it by damming, I guess within limits of the initial water flow amount.
Click to expand...
Check local laws if I remember correctly you can't dam/use shared streams without permission or atall.
 
A 5KW diesel parking heater is very efficient and reasonably priced you could even get a second one as a spare in a burn a wide variety of fuels kerosene heating oil etc
 
Gueyog8a7 said:
Well it is just a piece of open land so far and (if/) when I get there will be starting from scratch so no house yet. Thinking of making a wooden shack from the existing woodland. So it would only be small. I have been in a van for a year so used to living small. So maybe just a bit bigger, like the size of a couple of greenhouses in space, single room. I was thinking if you dug the house underground then that is insulation taken care of isn't it by the whole of the earth? :D

As for location in the middle belt of wales.
Click to expand...
Yes in the Netherlands we had house that are part beult in the ground

For people like to the Netherlands.
Amsterdam is not only things we have .
See link .

www.anwb.nl

Top 11 openluchtmusea in Nederland

Van het Archeon tot het Hunebedcentrum en het Kameleondorp: deze Nederlandse openluchtmusea zijn een educatief, fun dagje uit.
www.anwb.nl www.anwb.nl

For real life turf house and see how its beult.
Topic starter you can come and have a good Holly day .
So you can see how its done and how cool those house are in the summer.
My self really surprise about it.

Picture and link from that space

Plaggenhutdorp Aole Compas | Veenpark

www.veenpark.nl www.veenpark.nl
 

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Bananaman321 said:
A 5KW diesel parking heater is very efficient and reasonably priced you could even get a second one as a spare in a burn a wide variety of fuels kerosene heating oil etc
Click to expand...
I know, I already mentioned I have a diesel cooker and heater but the goal is to go completely off-grid so relying only on fuels I can sustain myself.
 
Suijkerbuijk said:
Yes in the Netherlands we had house that are part beult in the ground

For people like to the Netherlands.
Amsterdam is not only things we have .
See link .

www.anwb.nl

Top 11 openluchtmusea in Nederland

Van het Archeon tot het Hunebedcentrum en het Kameleondorp: deze Nederlandse openluchtmusea zijn een educatief, fun dagje uit.
www.anwb.nl www.anwb.nl

For real life turf house and see how its beult.
Topic starter you can come and have a good Holly day .
So you can see how its done and how cool those house are in the summer.
My self really surprise about it.

Picture and link from that space

Plaggenhutdorp Aole Compas | Veenpark

www.veenpark.nl www.veenpark.nl
Click to expand...
We have them here too, no need to go to you guys for that :). I just don't know about the specifications of them.
 
Gueyog8a7 said:
We have them here too, no need to go to you guys for that :). I just don't know about the specifications of them.
Click to expand...
Earth built houses are pretty good tbf and the other benefit is if you use tyres for support you can generally get them free this video might be of help
 
ThaiTaffy said:
Earth built houses are pretty good tbf and the other benefit is if you use tyres for support you can generally get them free this video might be of help
Click to expand...
Hah I think it was you suggesting tyres to me a few weeks ago as well? Really pushing tyre theory!

It is good for these purposes then in that they take around 50 years to degrade right which is a nice span for a house.

Why would you need anything more than wood and earth though? What benefits do the tyres provide? They also can't be sourced on site which is less appealing than just earth and wood.
 
Gueyog8a7 said:
Hah I think it was you suggesting tyres to me a few weeks ago as well? Really pushing tyre theory!

It is good for these purposes then in that they take around 50 years to degrade right which is a nice span for a house.
Click to expand...
For the road? My neighbour generally burns tyres for a few pennies worth of steel to take to the scrap yard so if I can push people to reuse them I will.
 
ThaiTaffy said:
For the road? My neighbour generally burns tyres for a few pennies worth of steel to take to the scrap yard so if I can push people to reuse them I will.
Click to expand...
They can get away with more in thailand then compared to the uk?
 
Gueyog8a7 said:
They can get away with more in thailand then compared to the uk?
Click to expand...
Hahaha generally the best way to describe rural Thailand is "carnage" from trucks with bent frames driving down the road sideways to children barely entering pubity racing motorcycles at 100kph with no helmet and that's just the roads.
 
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