DerpsyDoodler
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Are the gonna put all that in the manual? Or perhaps a large pop-up disclaimer when you “add to cart”?
Leaking Electrolyte from Bigbattery Powerblock
- Thread starter Will Prowse
- Start date
Are the gonna put all that in the manual? Or perhaps a large pop-up disclaimer when you “add to cart”?
Given how a lot of people use these cells (see the BB box, and the entire sub category for vehicles, let alone EVs) it would be nice if they actually did that. Packaging these batteries is really hard- so knowing if it's better to have them some orientation based on the use, and how high they can be stacked, and how much pressure one can put on the box.... etc.
The more the detailed the manual the better.
I'm hoping the thread can go on so that the technical information can be found. I find BB's explanation feasible, and am ready to move to the higher questions.
DerpsyDoodler
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Has BB has disclosed an official “post mortem” (explanation)?
Silence. Definitely a bad idea.
Has Will sent the batteries back? Until that happens, a post mortem can't happen. And if I were BB, I would not add anything until I had the battery in my hands.
All I said was that it was a plausible explanation, not the definitive one.
We still need more information about the batteries- such as how many batteries can be stacked on their side? For both static and dynamic situations. Does the pressure growth of the system increase the odds of the vent cap leaking? Can you stack them on the other edge? Should there be a plastic cushion between cells? Etc.
Just giving up is not really constructive.
I am late to the show, I did not see this.
I do not care how many batteries or affiliate program commission anyone offers. If a cell leaks, I will ensure that my viewers know. I have zero loyalty to any manufacturer or distributor. If I encounter a problem, I will share it.
I did not conclude what caused my cell to leak, and yes, the voltages of the cells were fine. And I also told you on the phone that there was zero potential at BMS output, and I still have no clue what happened. For me, I was freaking out because I touched something that was potentially toxic, and thousands of viewers bought these batteries. I do not wish to touch the battery again, and the pieces are still outside since I had the issue. I dropped everything and made the video. At the end of the day, I am dealing with a leaking battery and potentially toxic substances, and that is all that is on my mind.
Yes big battery thinks it is the overpressure valve, and they did find 11 cells. But I still have not had an explanation from anyone as to why my cell leaked when it did. Sure there are manufacturing defects, but I had zero leaking for two months. Why did it leak for absolutely no reason? I did not open the case up, I did not stress test it or anything. I still have no clue why it is leaking.
Something that people are forgetting is that the cells sleeves were damaged. I don't know why, and in my video, I did not assume to know why. But they are damaged, and I will go outside right now to take some photos. This is a separate problem that I should have stated more in the video.
I have reviewed a lot of batteries, and I have never had a leaky cell. Maybe I really do have bad luck, but I seem to encounter these "1 in a million" defects once a month. Have you guys noticed that? Is it really that I am unlucky, or that some products are higher quality? I think the latter is true.
I have nothing for or against any company. Furthermore, I focus on testing the products in the best way possible to mimic a use case, and trying to figure out what products I would trust in my own system. If something is exceptional, I will share it.
Here are the damaged sleeves. This is a separate problem that @HighTechLab and big battery still has not explained. I am going to make a video about this issue as well, and what I think about all of this.
Considering the location, it looks like the rivets on the inside of the case are rubbing the cells. I will be sure to show this in good detail in my next video.
Considering the location, it looks like the rivets on the inside of the case are rubbing the cells. I will be sure to show this in good detail in my next video.
I am making a video in the next hour about this. I still have not drawn any conclusions, and big battery is sending a hazmat box to ship the battery back.
Check out my pictures above of what the other cells in the pack look like.
Yes agreed, very good points about pack design.
The edges were struck hard, I don't see how that could happen after assembly. Two different cells have dents with similar spacing. Something like gravel was ground into the face of one cell. It seems like more than coincidence that the leaking cell also has surface damage. Were the cells dropped heavily while being transported to/from temporary storage in the factory? Were they stacked in a big pile on a cement floor? Would that be enough to force liquid electrolyte out the overpressure valve? How would this not be noticed during assembly, or was it noticed and ignored?
Sherlock Holmes would have enough evidence by now, we mere mortals must struggle with it.
(edit) Will settled the question of what caused the edge dents, it is the welds on the center shelf, they exactly match the dent positions. That still leaves other dents and damage and the question of what happens when current can flow between the aluminum cans and metal box.
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Rivets in the outer box? Is that small shelf riveted into the rest of the box?
Interesting design.
Thanks for the update, good to know what the process is.
It is the interior welds that caused the dents. I will post a video now with more details.
Let me know if you guys have any questions about anything at all. I have been working like crazy and had zero time to respond previously. Sorry guys
Let me know if you guys have any questions about anything at all. I have been working like crazy and had zero time to respond previously. Sorry guys
Alkaline
Solar Wizard
thanks when a company says a phrase like this I know the full of $#14 and will perm avoid them.
It sounds like they need some hand finishing process on the case to clean up those welds or a different design. Looking forward to the video Will.
I'm wondering if there are other welds in the case or if it's just the shelf. I suspect the big rectangle are simply sheet metal folds but they added the shelf and welding was the cheapest way to do it. I could be wrong though.
Flush rivets would probably be better than welds but more labor intensive.
Can I get the guts of the BigB 24V in the case of the Renogy 48V for the same cost as the BigB please.
Just posted the video:
Yeah I agree Kenny. Absolutely.
Haha the renogy was pretty nice!
Yeah I agree Kenny. Absolutely.
Haha the renogy was pretty nice!
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Don't be so sure nicks through blue plastic are unrelated to leaks at pressure relief.
Haven't we heard there is some conductivity from terminals to case? If an electrical circuit is completed, it could etch through the can, especially where thin, possibly at weld (which will have different crystal structure and may contain contaminants so corrode differently.)
Proposed experiment to reproduce fault:
Arrange undamaged cells as series-connected pack. Mount upside down so electrolyte contacts pressure relief. Make electrical connection between cell cans with an ammeter or coulomb counter.
Note that electrolyte may not escape through a small hole until there is pressure differential, which might be produced by varying temperature.
Big battery has fixed this issue. All packs shipped out in the last month have this:
I noticed @HighTechLab commented he is interested in the actual source of the leak. Have you been able to verify the leak was in fact coming from the vent? When Big Battery has your cell in possession and analyzes it are they going to let you know what they find?
Regarding the image showing the proper cell orientation with the cells plates. These aluminum cased cells do not use plates. They use a spiral would "jelly roll". I am no expert on the composition of it. However the manufacturer needs to be asked concerning cell orientation for the cell in question if it's not mentioned in their spec sheets.
It was difficult for me to see the welds inside of the case. I see you have added photos of the improved case.
I appreciate your objectivity calling out things for what they are, both good and bad. ?
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Picture shows cables in braid sleeve passing through oval hole in sheetmetal with bare edges.
I'd rather see protection on the metal edge, something along the lines of this:
At least the outside damage issue looks to be addressed.
But I also hope BB gets back to you confirming the valve. It's quite curious that they only started leaking after you've had it for a while, and presumably it was just sitting there- not being charged or discharged... Unless it got warm in there and they built pressure....
But I also hope BB gets back to you confirming the valve. It's quite curious that they only started leaking after you've had it for a while, and presumably it was just sitting there- not being charged or discharged... Unless it got warm in there and they built pressure....
DerpsyDoodler
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Only for the one cell. Will detailed other scratches and dents on other cells (and had no explanation there, if I understood correctly). Perhaps it was a scratch and dent sale unit?
Edit: yeah, I got jokes for days.
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I'm glad to see the packs lying on their backs. I think Bigbattery would do well to make that an official recommendation. Not only reducing the leak risk but also the falling over risk, a danger to both battery and person. They do look cool standing up, but safe trumps cool by a mile.
Now it's obvious the Anderson connector is in the wrong place, you can't put two packs snugly together and tidily aligned.
So, they clearly knew it was an issue. I hope nobody has one of the pre-padded versions in a high vibration environment.
Bud Martin
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Sure sound like it. If BB really has QC department they should be able to tell at what serial number the pads are added, and then they should contact all the customers that have the old version and offer to exchange the old bad design units. I doubt that BB will do that.
This is friggin GREAT! Shut up and take my wallet BigBattery. I don't think I could do better at this time for the $$ buying cells, BMS, etc and warranty for my current project.
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