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best fridge set up ?

Theres also an indicator a product is in a bubble (i.e. over priced) - many new brands popup out of nowhere. 10 years ago you had engal and dometic. Now theres at least a dozen brands for these 12v fridges.

We also see this with lifepo4 drop-ins.
 
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From my experience, I would go compressor fridge ever time and invest in more battery and solar. My 200 l uses about 1 kWh a day when your away and regularly opening it, but less than 1/2 that when the doors are closed the whole day. If you go for an AC domestic fridge then the inverter itself uses about 250 w/h just through internal loss. Jon
 
250wh is about a $45 solar panel. I just cant wrap my brain around why thats worth paying hundreds more for appliances. Especially knowing that combined theres little difference in consumption between the two.
 
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We have a 240v domestic SAMSUNG Inverter fridge running from a 375 watt Victron 12/240 Inverter. It is far more efficient and keeps things really cold in the freezer, ice cream and ice blocks are frozen not like our old Danfros compressor fridge when they were not quite solid. Also setup a lot cheaper compared to 12v fridges.
 
I'm assuming there arent any issues using a standard domestic fridge on a mobile motorhome???

Not really, other than an extra 20% power consumption from inverter losses.
Although my fridge/freezer failed this summer in the van, but i think that was down to using a MSW inverter rather than PSW. I'm trying again this year. Better to save £750 on a fridge/freezer and put that into extra solar/battery. So much more choice in domestic fridge freezers. a 50/50 split works well for me but no DC fridge freezers are 50/50 split and ~200L total.

Some people use something like this https://www.bimblesolar.com/220v-digital-thermostat
To have better power use/better temperature control from mains fridges, or using freezers (with thicker insulation) as fridges with the external temp control.
 
Im at the point I feel like a crusader on this subject. Bare in mind my experience is usually with apartment units.

As I just replied to a person who was about to buy a $1.5k 12v upright...15-20 years ago solar was $4-5+ a watt. Pure sinewave inverters were not common and very expensive. A 1kw could run a grand. There was no big lifepo4. It made zero financial sense to go 120v. Youre talking about $1500+ vs $500-$800 for an engel or dometic. There was also no MPPT.

Times have changed. Solar and inverters are dirt cheap, as much as 100x cheaper for used panels. PSW Inverters are 10x cheaper. Modern batteries are leagues above in efficiency and solar sizes required to charge them. There is no logic in 12v appliances. But dogma dies hard.
 
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As I understand it, one area that the 12V fridges are better is when someone is actually going off-road to 4 wheel. I have the CFX75 in my 99 Land Cruiser. It is routinely jostled when I hit bumps and is running when I am at 20-30 degree angles in all directions. Correct me if I am wrong, but the compressor in most 12v fridges is better for these purposes. If it is going in a van, then it sounds like the 120v is definitely better.
 
i have this one,works great.12/24 volt compressor.freezer/fridge.

 
Will had a video on this topic, (not a test, but an observation).
Short version: the pricey 12 volt made no sense, $$$wise.

I can't remember if i've watched that video but I've heard similar arguments before. I'm curious whether these comparisons take into consideration the rather substantial inverter conversion inefficiencies and the parasitic draw of the inverter needing to be on 24/7 (if it wouldn't otherwise be on 24 hours a day).

Its unlikely that a high quality 12/24v fridge will ever be cheaper overall, even if it did have substantially better efficiency, but that's not the only reason people buy the high end chest style 12/24v fridges.

For most, if they can get a substantially cheaper 120v fridge it probably makes the most sense to buy that from an economic standpoint, especially when comparing conventional upright style 120v to the same style 120v. But if your use case calls for something more purpose built and rugged, or requires a chest style, or you simply prefer higher end components or more control a 12v might be preferable.
 
I can't remember if i've watched that video but I've heard similar arguments before. I'm curious whether these comparisons take into consideration the rather substantial inverter conversion inefficiencies and the parasitic draw of the inverter needing to be on 24/7 (if it wouldn't otherwise be on 24 hours a day).

They do, but also assume that you'll need an inverter anyway, also remembering to size for the start up demands of a fridge (10x the running watts)

For me, with a 200L Fridge freezer (£250) compared to a DC Fridge of similar size £1100, even with its own dedicated inverter (£200) it enables an extra 700w of solar to be purchased for the price difference, generating 3x the solar it needs and so the extra 10-20% of inverter losses are not an issue.
However in a van with limited space for panels/already full of panels then maybe you need that power.

I'm going to try it this year, worst case is the mains fridge ends up in my house and I've a year to save for a big DC Fridge Freezer for 2021 season.
 
They do, but also assume that you'll need an inverter anyway, also remembering to size for the start up demands of a fridge (10x the running watts)

Wow, I didn't realize the startup surge was so high. In terms of an inverter, so far I haven't found anything that would be run continuously or intermittantly but automatically that would need to be 110v AC, so in my case, I'm still hoping to only switch the inverter on when I need it, but I understand for many people this will not be the case.

For me, with a 200L Fridge freezer (£250) compared to a DC Fridge of similar size £1100, even with its own dedicated inverter (£200) it enables an extra 700w of solar to be purchased for the price difference, generating 3x the solar it needs and so the extra 10-20% of inverter losses are not an issue.

For your situation yes, I would save the money and spend more on solar or something else if I were in your shoes. If you aren't limited by solar array size or battery capacity it doesn't make much sense to spend 4x as much on a fridge to save ~10-30%.

But afaik, these 12v fridges are almost exclusively marketed towards the marine, overland, van, and vehicle based usecases where both battery bank capacity and max solar array size are definitely limiting factors in many cases. And the equation is much different in a van, small overland vehicle, or small boat, your fridge could very well be your largest or only continuous power draw so saving even 10-30% maybe more could make a big difference.

All depends on your use case I guess, and your specific priorities. If I were building an off grid cabin I wouldn't bother with one, but in a smaller vehicle build or on a small boat where space, weight, and roof real estate are limited it becomes more attractive (but still optional).[/QUOTE]
 
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my expensive 12/24 volt fridge/freezer uses very little power.extremely quiet too.
plus i can take it any where i want.
 
A lot has been said about Inverter inefficiency, but I don’t worry about that as I have a fridge that works beautifully in temperatures of 42c in summer and it can handle the off road conditions as our van in the image is fully off road and the fridge has done many thousands of kilometres of corrugated roads and not missing a beat. May plug into mains about every 3 months or so for a short time. Have plenty of solar on roof and 400ah of lithium battery storage. Would I go back to using a 12v fridge, no way. Don’t have generator and don’t charge from alternator, van is purely 12v solar. My earlier post has a little more info.
 
A lot has been said about Inverter inefficiency, but I don’t worry about that as I have a fridge that works beautifully in temperatures of 42c in summer and it can handle the off road conditions as our van in the image is fully off road and the fridge has done many thousands of kilometres of corrugated roads and not missing a beat. May plug into mains about every 3 months or so for a short time. Have plenty of solar on roof and 400ah of lithium battery storage. Would I go back to using a 12v fridge, no way. Don’t have generator and don’t charge from alternator, van is purely 12v solar. My earlier post has a little more info.
A way of overcoming inverter inefficiencies was featured in a utube.video by " into the mystery 13" a few years ago..
In this he disconnected the ac power to every thing but the compressor and operating everything else on 12v powered through relays to the inverter on off switch. When the fridge needed to turn on the relay connected to the 12 v switch and it powered up.
I have no idea if this was safe , legal or even worked, I am only delving into my memory bank and Leave it up to the experience of others to comment
Alla
 
A lot has been said about Inverter inefficiency, but I don’t worry about that as I have a fridge that works beautifully in temperatures of 42c in summer

42c! damn that's hot. The concern with inverter inefficiency isn't so much whether it can handle high temperatures and keep a fridge cool, its the extra wasted power that you have to account for. Though the ability to keep frozen things frozen and cold things cold is pretty important too, especially the former.

and it can handle the off road conditions as our van in the image is fully off road and the fridge has done many thousands of kilometres of corrugated roads and not missing a beat.

This is important, other than efficiency, its the other main concern I have with a normal household mini fridge. But if yours can handle 1000's of K's of corrugation, it should handle most anything you come across. What brand? edit: just reread your previous post and saw it is a Samsung 220v

We have a 240v domestic SAMSUNG Inverter fridge running from a 375 watt Victron 12/240 Inverter. It is far more efficient and keeps things really cold in the freezer, ice cream and ice blocks are frozen

How are you defining/measuring efficiency here? Lower power draw at a given temperature including inverter overhead? Lower power draw of the fridge only? More effective at freezing things? All of the above?

Most proponents of AC fridges don't claim that they are equal or more efficient. The argument is usually that the marginally better efficiency of 12/24v units doesn't justify the added cost. And it is a persuasive argument for many use-cases. But I haven't heard anyone claim their 120/220 AC unit was more efficient (since the fridge itself is DC and requires a conversion from DC (batteries) to AC (inverter to wall plug) and then back to DC (fridge internals) with associated efficiency losses at each conversion poitn, it seems it would be impossible to be more efficient if all other things are equal. Maybe your 220v fridges in Australia are made to a much higher energy efficiency standard than here in the US (I think this is true in the EU) but I still have a hard time believing your 220v unit can be more efficient than a DC fridge in a DC system unless I'm fundamentally misunderstanding something (which is likely ?).

Have plenty of solar on roof and 400ah of lithium battery storage.

This is probably a big part of the reason you don't care about inverter inefficiency or fridge inefficiency. 400ah is a lot more than most offroad builds have. If a fridge is a small part of your total energy budget saving 10-30% doesn't matter much, if its your main energy consumer and you only have 1200w/hrs as is common in small builds, 10-30% savings can be huge.

Would I go back to using a 12v fridge, no way. Don’t have generator and don’t charge from alternator, van is purely 12v solar. My earlier post has a little more info.

I don't understand why having a generator or charging from alternator would affect your decision to go with a 12v fridge or not? regardless of whether you use 12v or 220v your system is 12v, your drawing power from your batteries and charging from the sun. What am I not understanding?
 
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A way of overcoming inverter inefficiencies was featured in a utube.video by " into the mystery 13" a few years ago..
In this he disconnected the ac power to every thing but the compressor and operating everything else on 12v powered through relays to the inverter on off switch. When the fridge needed to turn on the relay connected to the 12 v switch and it powered up.
I have no idea if this was safe , legal or even worked, I am only delving into my memory bank and Leave it up to the experience of others to comment
Alla

That is really interesting, so if I understand correctly, you would use a dedicated inverter for the fridge that switches on and off as the compressor cycles, and all other components are powered directly by 12/24v.

Its a cool idea, no idea if it would work or be worth the effort. It would prevent the continuous parasitic draw of the inverter running 24/7, it wouldn't do anything for the inverter conversion efficiency though.
 
That is really interesting, so if I understand correctly, you would use a dedicated inverter for the fridge that switches on and off as the compressor cycles, and all other components are powered directly by 12/24v.

Its a cool idea, no idea if it would work or be worth the effort. It would prevent the continuous parasitic draw of the inverter running 24/7, it wouldn't do anything for the inverter conversion efficiency though.
That's correct ,at the time I didn't have a spare ac fridge to play with so again no idea if it.works or not.YouTube vid was reporting on a campers set up.
Allan
 
42c! damn that's hot. The concern with inverter inefficiency isn't so much whether it can handle high temperatures and keep a fridge cool, its the extra wasted power that you have to account for. Though the ability to keep frozen things frozen and cold things cold is pretty important too, especially the former.



This is important, other than efficiency, its the other main concern I have with a normal household mini fridge. But if yours can handle 1000's of K's of corrugation, it should handle most anything you come across. What brand? edit: just reread your previous post and saw it is a Samsung 220v



How are you defining/measuring efficiency here? Lower power draw at a given temperature including inverter overhead? Lower power draw of the fridge only? More effective at freezing things? All of the above?

Most proponents of AC fridges don't claim that they are equal or more efficient. The argument is usually that the marginally better efficiency of 12/24v units doesn't justify the added cost. And it is a persuasive argument for many use-cases. But I haven't heard anyone claim their 120/220 AC unit was more efficient (since the fridge itself is DC and requires a conversion from DC (batteries) to AC (inverter to wall plug) and then back to DC (fridge internals) with associated efficiency losses at each conversion poitn, it seems it would be impossible to be more efficient if all other things are equal. Maybe your 220v fridges in Australia are made to a much higher energy efficiency standard than here in the US (I think this is true in the EU) but I still have a hard time believing your 220v unit can be more efficient than a DC fridge in a DC system unless I'm fundamentally misunderstanding something (which is likely ?).



This is probably a big part of the reason you don't care about inverter inefficiency or fridge inefficiency. 400ah is a lot more than most offroad builds have. If a fridge is a small part of your total energy budget saving 10-30% doesn't matter much, if its your main energy consumer and you only have 1200w/hrs as is common in small builds, 10-30% savings can be huge.



I don't understand why having a generator or charging from alternator would affect your decision to go with a 12v fridge or not? regardless of whether you use 12v or 220v your system is 12v, your drawing power from your batteries and charging from the sun. What am I not understanding?

Some people have asked if I run a genie or charge batteries from alternator to top up in cloudy conditions. With my setup I have gone for 5 weeks of cloudy conditions and rain and my batteries have not gone below 85%. That’s why I don’t worry about Inverter inefficiency and being a Inverter fridge it doesn’t have a high power draw.
 
Some people have asked if I run a genie or charge batteries from alternator to top up in cloudy conditions. With my setup I have gone for 5 weeks of cloudy conditions and rain and my batteries have not gone below 85%. That’s why I don’t worry about Inverter inefficiency and being a Inverter fridge it doesn’t have a high power draw.

I've never heard of an inverter fridge, looks like I have some research to do, do you have any idea what sort of power it draws on average?

Yeah if I was never dropping below 85% in worst case conditions and all my energy was free solar I wouldnt give a crap about efficiency either.
 
Some people have asked if I run a genie or charge batteries from alternator to top up in cloudy conditions. With my setup I have gone for 5 weeks of cloudy conditions and rain and my batteries have not gone below 85%. That’s why I don’t worry about Inverter inefficiency and being a Inverter fridge it doesn’t have a high power draw.

Solar and batteries were my first upgrade then the 240v fridge, when I had the 12v fridge running, my SOC would drop to 80% o’nite so to me a 5% gain in is better. I also have a Victron 3000watt Inverter for the morning coffee, toast, washing machine etc and the 3.2 kw Inverter roof cassette air conditioner which I only run for a max of 5 hours a day, We live off the grid for upto 9-10 months of the year.

That’s it for now as I will be loosing my signal very soon and won’t have access for about two weeks as out of range.
 
It isn't easy to identify inverter fridges in the US via a web search or even on the product pages. Here's a good thread on the topic: https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/351398/lg-inverter-refrigerators

The 20cuft LG LTCS20020S is $700 at Home Depot (inverter is shown at the very bottom of the page) and https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/LTCS20020S.html (inverter is not listed anywhere on the page but is in the PDF spec sheet available on the page).

The 11cuft LG LTNC11131V is $630 at Home Depot (inverter is NOT shown on the page anywhere) and $700 at https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/LTNC11131V.html (inverter is listed on both the page and spec sheet)
 
It isn't easy to identify inverter fridges in the US via a web search or even on the product pages. Here's a good thread on the topic: https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/351398/lg-inverter-refrigerators

The 20cuft LG LTCS20020S is $700 at Home Depot (inverter is shown at the very bottom of the page) and https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/LTCS20020S.html (inverter is not listed anywhere on the page but is in the PDF spec sheet available on the page).

The 11cuft LG LTNC11131V is $630 at Home Depot (inverter is NOT shown on the page anywhere) and $700 at https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/LTNC11131V.html (inverter is listed on both the page and spec sheet)

Solid info.

Big one uses 439KWH per year

convert to watts per hour avg
439X1000/365/24=50 watts per hour avg

Little one uses
39 watts per hour avg

Check my math?
 
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