The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

pollenface said:

As directed by the state government where I live (Western Australia) I have to be double dosed by the 1st of January to continue being employed.

Whether there's any proof of it being effective or not.

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LOL... It is effective or they wouldn't mandate it.

Why are people so irrational?

I have a very wealthy female friend who's a huge Trump supporter.. and she refused to get vaccinated. She has 4 kids, all between 20 and 30 years old now.
Like I said, she's very wealthy, measured in the 7 to 8 figures range, but its not her money, it was inherited.. her father was a big shot back in the 80's and 90's.

Anyhow, like I said, she won't get vaccinated for covid.. no way, no how.. not having it. But like I said, she's very wealthy and she, along with her kids and mother, have traveled all over the world and fill their home's with very expensive souvenirs. She has an 11 foot tall wood carving giraffe in her living room that cost something like $22,000 plus the shipping to get it here from Africa.

Her family has been to China, Russia, Africa, all over South America, Mexico, Australia, the Arctic circle, Greece, Turkey, Iceland, etc.. I don't think there's anywhere on the planet they haven't gone..

Have you ever traveled the world? I've done some traveling.. and the one thing that is universal for EVERYONE that goes traveling to exotic places??? = LOTS AND LOTS of vaccinations..

Go ahead, google "Required vaccinations for [enter exotic destination here]" and read the list..

She'll let them inject her with all kinds of vaccinations to go traveling, but won't get the covid vaccination.. ROFLMAO

I said she was wealthy, not smart..

MurphyGuy said:

LOL... It is effective or they wouldn't mandate it.

Why are people so irrational?

I have a very wealthy female friend who's a huge Trump supporter.. and she refused to get vaccinated. She has 4 kids, all between 20 and 30 years old now.
Like I said, she's very wealthy, measured in the 7 to 8 figures range, but its not her money, it was inherited.. her father was a big shot back in the 80's and 90's.

Anyhow, like I said, she won't get vaccinated for covid.. no way, no how.. not having it. But like I said, she's very wealthy and she, along with her kids and mother, have traveled all over the world and fill their home's with very expensive souvenirs. She has an 11 foot tall wood carving giraffe in her living room that cost something like $22,000 plus the shipping to get it here from Africa.

Her family has been to China, Russia, Africa, all over South America, Mexico, Australia, the Arctic circle, Greece, Turkey, Iceland, etc.. I don't think there's anywhere on the planet they haven't gone..

Have you ever traveled the world? I've done some traveling.. and the one thing that is universal for EVERYONE that goes traveling to exotic places??? = LOTS AND LOTS of vaccinations..

Go ahead, google "Required vaccinations for [enter exotic destination here]" and read the list..

She'll let them inject her with all kinds of vaccinations to go traveling, but won't get the covid vaccination.. ROFLMAO

I said she was wealthy, not smart..

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is she single? would she make a good sugar momma? inquiring minds want to know....

Hedges said:

Booster (3rd dose of most vaccines) is coming our way in the U.S. Mix n match apparently will be allowed; it gives stronger response.
I'm not so sure about getting that one - antibodies waning, but T-cells still working?
Having a dose (exposure) timed sufficiently long after the 1st dose (exposure) might be the key to lasting immunity. Insufficient field data to be sure. We know the 3 weeks specified for Pfizer was rather short, and U.K. reported 12 weeks gave 3x as strong a response.

Your additional dose will give much higher antibody response. That much has been seen.
I think the booster trials for J&J raised it from 2/3 effective to 95%, similar to the mRNA after 2nd dose.

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What does stronger response mean? From the number of experts on the subject I can expect the vaccine to help me not get it, not help me not get it, make the symptons that like a cold, make no symptoms so I can super spread it, allow Bill Gates to track me, and sterilize me...

The US went from 8-9% of the population having antibodies to 85% in a period of 12 months. At this point it seems like boosters will be most useful for those at risk of severe infections rather than the general population.

Shale MacGregor said:

What does stronger response mean? From the number of experts on the subject I can expect the vaccine to help me not get it, not help me not get it, make the symptons that like a cold, make no symptoms so I can super spread it, allow Bill Gates to track me, and sterilize me...

The US went from 8-9% of the population having antibodies to 85% in a period of 12 months. At this point it seems like boosters will be most useful for those at risk of severe infections rather than the general population.

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Measured antibody response.

As for the rest, you can see many "experts" spouting things. Some were grounded in previous vaccine outcomes ("pathogenic priming"), which were a valid concern and occur with other diseases, other vaccines, but obviously weren't what happened with Covid vaccines.
I also don't trust the statistics or advice given us by government and industry spokesmen. I try to reality-check claims from both sides, and err on the side of caution.

Pfizer schedule is dose #2 3 weeks after #1. But U.K. decided to put dose #1 in twice as many people right away, dose #2 12 weeks later when they received more. Comparing the two schedules they got 3x as many antibodies in the blood with 12 weeks. Normally 2-dose vaccines have been spaced much further apart, so 3 weeks was abnormally short.


Mixed doses produced higher antibody response in many cases (although, partly the results seem to show higher response if second dose is mRNA, regardless of which first dose.)



Yes, boosters most useful for those most at risk.
At this time I'm inclined to wait and see. And wear that mask some said would increase chances of catching and spreading covid.

Hedges said:

Pfizer schedule is dose #2 3 weeks after #1. But U.K. decided to put dose #1 in twice as many people right away, dose #2 12 weeks later when they received more. Comparing the two schedules they got 3x as many antibodies in the blood with 12 weeks. Normally 2-dose vaccines have been spaced much further apart, so 3 weeks was abnormally short.

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This is exactly what happened in Israel. Extremely high and rapid uptake of vaccine and a huge number of "break through" infections from following the recommended dosing schedule.

Yeah ..... it's one of the things they failed to tell us .... that the antibodies from the vaccine fade significantly after 6 months.
All they wanted us to know was that there was an initial 95% or so immunity ...... They had to know from their testing that faded pretty quickly to around 30%.

Not communicating this kind of thing is why people don't trust them.

If they weren't mRNA vaccines and not shoved down my throat I would possibly get the vaccines if it showed efficacy.

Two relatives died after receiving their 2nd Pfizer shot, one within 12hrs, the other a couple of days. That's not a coincidence, IMO. I don't know of anyone that died from COVID.

CDC is now talking about a 4th shot for the immunocompromised.

Study what happened in the animal trials for these mRNA type vaccines after they were exposed to the virus, a large majority of them died.

I had COVID and recovered at 65 yrs of age. Quercetin, Vitamin D (lots of it), Vitamin C, Zinc and NAC worked well for me.

Bob B said:

Yeah ..... it's one of the things they failed to tell us .... that the antibodies from the vaccine fade significantly after 6 months.
All they wanted us to know was that there was an initial 95% or so immunity ...... They had to know from their testing that faded pretty quickly to around 30%.

Not communicating this kind of thing is why people don't trust them.

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Despite the fading antibody response, protection against serious illness, hospitalization, and death holds up pretty well.
But breakthrough cases can have "Long Covid"

So I think the vaccine is good (longer than recommended time between dose #1 and #2). Continued precautions, too.

mactech said:

Two relatives died after receiving their 2nd Pfizer shot, one within 12hrs, the other a couple of days. That's not a coincidence, IMO. I don't know of anyone that died from COVID.

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There does seem to be enough anecdotal evidence to raise concern.
But statistics do show relatively effective and safe overall.

Weighing data I've seen for Covid and for the Pfizer, I chose to get the shot. I read test results for that one.
Why the adverse outcomes which don't appear to be expected background results, I don't know. That is a concern.
When I saw VAERS results for death day of shot, day after etc., I realized number occurring day of shot was exactly the background rate for the population of age getting first shot. The reported deaths for day 2, day 3 etc. dropped way below expected death rate for that population.

Two people known to you, that seem to not be expected result. Unless they were of such age/health that death was expected any day. It can happen occasionally in the world (and then we hear about it), but I also have heard of serious (non-fatal) outcomes. We have to consider rate of such outcomes in a world without covid or vaccine, see if it is elevated now. I'm not sure.

mactech said:

Study what happened in the animal trials for these mRNA type vaccines after they were exposed to the virus, a large majority of them died.

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And some of my early electronic designs burned up, before I got them right.
Early attempts at mRNA didn't work right. They figured out the problems and fixed it.
mRNA tests of 35,000 getting (Pifizer, Moderna) and 35,000 getting placebo did not show majority die or more die from shot than from placebo.

mactech said:

If they weren't mRNA vaccines and not shoved down my throat I would possibly get the vaccines if it showed efficacy.

Two relatives died after receiving their 2nd Pfizer shot, one within 12hrs, the other a couple of days. That's not a coincidence, IMO. I don't know of anyone that died from COVID.

CDC is now talking about a 4th shot for the immunocompromised.

Study what happened in the animal trials for these mRNA type vaccines after they were exposed to the virus, a large majority of them died.

I had COVID and recovered at 65 yrs of age. Quercetin, Vitamin D (lots of it), Vitamin C, Zinc and NAC worked well for me.

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You don't know anyone who died from COVID related complications, and you have two relatives that died almost immediately after receiving a vaccine, and you were fine after recovering from COVID?

I guess I don't blame you if those are your direct experiences, based on the vears database of those who died after receiving a shot, within 4 months regardless of reason, your family either has something that triggers based on vaccine, or just the ultimate random number generator came up twice for you.

They just need to be HONEST with what they tell the public.

It is widely known now that some % of people .... especially healthy young people .... have had heart problems after getting the vaccine.
We know this because it has leaked out from other sources. We never heard a word about it from the officials who should have been telling us the straight facts.

Why did the 2 highest ranking members of the committee that had to approve the booster quit? They were pressured to approve the vaccine when they didn't think they had enough data to do it.
As soon as they quit, the booster recommendation got approved.
This is NOT the way things should be done and just feeds the growing suspicion.

I got the Moderna vaccine .... it seems that it doesn't fade quite as quickly as the Pfizer. So, I will be waiting and watching a while before I get a booster.

I’m still uncomfortable with the vaccines. The amount of pressure and falsehoods from both sides of ‘the public debate’ make me suspicious. When in history has there every been a precedent for this pressure?

A fact is the reports that show I higher likelihood of covid infection if you have taken the flu shot or the covid shot(s). As the opening post recounts in part.

Which is the lesser evil?
At 56 with reasonably good health but a couple risk factors (blood pressure, high blood sugar) my chances of death from covid are by reports: very small.
It’s so hard to find information from the gov, media, and the general medical community with documentation that isn’t debunked somewhere I honestly don’t know what to think.

More people died last year from opioid issues as a primary cause than from covid as a primary indicator… where’s the appropriate driven response from the gov - media on THAT?

Bob B said:

They just need to be HONEST with what they tell the public.

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Ding ding ding!

People are not stupid. The health officials and political leaders have all been pushing a narrative. They have been feeding the public half truths and avoiding or dismissing inconvenient facts to drive that narrative.

noenegdod said:

Ding ding ding!

People are not stupid. The health officials and political leaders have all been pushing a narrative. They have been feeding the public half truths and avoiding or dismissing inconvenient facts to drive that narrative.

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Yeah they are stupid, but no single individual generally thinks they're stupid.

The phenomenon is called the "Dunning Kruger Effect"

People think they're smart because they can tie their shoes, and some can even change the brake pads on their cars..

Here's a test you can do. The next time you're talking face to face with someone about global warming and they have a strong opinion on the subject, draw them a picture of an oxygen atom, a nitrogen atom, and a carbon atom.. ask them to identify which is which... Good luck with that.

MurphyGuy said:

Yeah they are stupid, but no single individual generally thinks they're stupid.

The phenomenon is called the "Dunning Kruger Effect"

People think they're smart because they can tie their shoes, and some can even change the brake pads on their cars..

Here's a test you can do. The next time you're talking face to face with someone about global warming and they have a strong opinion on the subject, draw them a picture of an oxygen atom, a nitrogen atom, and a carbon atom.. ask them to identify which is which... Good luck with that.

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You took me a little to literally. The dunning kruger effect is in relation to not knowing enough to know how little you know and the more you know the more you realize how little you know.

People tend to inherently know when they are being mislead. A lot of people, inspite of this tend to ignore that "voice" and believe the words they are being fed.

So if people are not stupid, how come some folks still don't wear seat belts, bike helmets, or eye protection.

MurphyGuy said:

Yeah they are stupid, but no single individual generally thinks they're stupid.

The phenomenon is called the "Dunning Kruger Effect"

People think they're smart because they can tie their shoes, and some can even change the brake pads on their cars..

Here's a test you can do. The next time you're talking face to face with someone about global warming and they have a strong opinion on the subject, draw them a picture of an oxygen atom, a nitrogen atom, and a carbon atom.. ask them to identify which is which... Good luck with that.

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Sorry, not sure where you are coming from with "people are stupid", unless you were intentionally being self-referential and misusing DKE to underline a point, I don't get it.

Being ignorant of something, and taking studies / reports from experts in the field is not being stupid. It is in fact a necessary evil that we can't all be experts in everything and know everything. The issue as I see it, is that as humanity as a whole accrues more and more knowledge, complexity, technology, etc we are more susceptible to being misled by false information and it is become more and more difficult to get access to the tools we need to identify whether that information is false or not.

At this point the only people I would refer to as "stupid" (and it would be a generalized use of the term not actually indicating mental capability) are the people who consume all information from singular sources without prejudice or analysis.

It is important to think critically as much as possible and to rule out as much of the obvious BS as possible and then apply basic logic to what is left. The fact that so many swallow agenda's whole and un-examined is concerning to me, but it is easier to listen to 30 mins of talk radio or news shows and take it as gospel, then go back to watching entertainment the rest of the day.

Shale MacGregor said:

You don't know anyone who died from COVID related complications, and you have two relatives that died almost immediately after receiving a vaccine, and you were fine after recovering from COVID?

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Not that I know personally. Maybe I just don't know many people.

The relatives came from a different side of the family. No correlation.

AndyRonLI said:

So if people are not stupid, how come some folks still don't wear seat belts, bike helmets, or eye protection.

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There is no such thing as being "globally smart". I have a brother that is genius level when it comes to math. He is very smart, until you focus in on his weaknesses. If you evaluated him based on those you would say he is stupid. Just as there is no such thing as "globally smart", there is no such thing as "globally stupid". One of the least intelligent people I have ever met solved an issue (really a minor annoyance) that I had with what he considered "common sense". After that I kept him around in spite of several smaller dumb mistakes and against the wishes of the owner of the company. I had to fire him a month later after he drove through a partially opened shop door and ripped it off. Fact remains, he knew something I didnt, in spite of the fact he could hardly function in society. He taught me 2 things. The last being: listen to that little voice in your head and never ignore it.

Hedges said:

And some of my early electronic designs burned up, before I got them right.
Early attempts at mRNA didn't work right. They figured out the problems and fixed it.
mRNA tests of 35,000 getting (Pifizer, Moderna) and 35,000 getting placebo did not show majority die or more die from shot than from placebo.

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Please point to where they specifically figured out the problems and fixed the mRNA issues and subsequently redid their animal trials. I am not at all comfortable with science manipulating my genetics.

Pfizer cannot be trusted. They had the largest medical fraud case EVER!

The vaccine mandate is all about the $$$. Our science has been corrupted by money.
Pfizer, Moderna and other big pharma players buy off anyone who gets in their way.
Merck invented the Nobel-prize winning ivermectin. They intentionally criticized it and gave it bad publicity
so they could come out with another patented pill to make big bucks on.
I've had the j&j vaccine (forced at work) which is non-mRNA. I did buy a bunch of ivermectin tabs from India.
4 members of my family, all over 60, had covid but took ivermectin. All were ok in 3-5 days.
Anyone want the website, I'll post it. 200 tabs (12mg) for $150

mactech said:

Please point to where they specifically figured out the problems and fixed the mRNA issues and subsequently redid their animal trials. I am not at all comfortable with science manipulating my genetics.

Pfizer cannot be trusted. They had the largest medical fraud case EVER!

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mRNA vaccines do not manipulate you genetics. They use the machinery of your cell to produce spike proteins which your body reacts to.

Your genetics remain unchanged.

Hedges said:

Booster (3rd dose of most vaccines) is coming our way in the U.S. Mix n match apparently will be allowed; it gives stronger response.
I'm not so sure about getting that one - antibodies waning, but T-cells still working?
Having a dose (exposure) timed sufficiently long after the 1st dose (exposure) might be the key to lasting immunity. Insufficient field data to be sure. We know the 3 weeks specified for Pfizer was rather short, and U.K. reported 12 weeks gave 3x as strong a response.

Your additional dose will give much higher antibody response. That much has been seen.
I think the booster trials for J&J raised it from 2/3 effective to 95%, similar to the mRNA after 2nd dose.

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so weird any mysterious how the human body functions

like cramming for a test and forgetting the answers a week later or something..

spaced repetition for improved immune pedagogy?

I took Moderna because my personal research led me to believe it’s efficacy is highest of all available in this part of the world. And there was a chance to get it. Got the second dose after the designated delay time.

Side effects observed: Mainly injection site soreness. Mild lethargy for a few days after first dose. Again some lethargy for a few days after second dose. Felt like experiencing a very small flu. Like having the flu on in the other room at a low volume.

As others have mentioned, the Public Health Messaging has been fraught with misdirection and dishonest and narratives during a most critical time of need. So determining to take the Moderna Vaccine was more straining than usual, feeling like I not only need to prevent this virus from infecting me but I also have to sift through a mile of bullshit from the Official Health Advice. So tiring and tedious to feel like CDC is outright feeding me lies that wouldn’t pass muster at any liar boot camp.

Glad I got vaccinated with Moderna.

It protects me and others.

STILL being aware of HOW TRANSMISSION WORKS. Air particles. An engineering matter.

Some of the other vaccines seem like questionable propositions to me in my humble opinion. Which is a statement that might get me dogpiled in some places, but it’s just true. Every single person has a RIGHT TO KNOW AHEAD OF TIME what the RISKS of ADMINISTERING are.

No human has the right to hide the dangers of a vaccine.

edit: Has my risky behavior significantly increased after being vaccinated? Maybe. I intentionally tried to avoid that because of the cognitive confounding risk behavior factor known in humans, referenced in this thread.

Just some random thoughts. I don’t shame anyone for not getting vaccinated. Cannot shame people into excellence as some say. Most people want to survive to see another day and if they can understand how transmission operates then they can make their own decisions. It’s complicated in indoor public places like markets due to logistics, it’s simply not feasible to retrofit all existing buildings to mitigate the aerosol transmission risk so masks are clearly more economical way to increase national security. Anyways holy crap I hope everyone here makes it out on the flip side with a solar system that frees them of this wacky circus.

curiouscarbon said:

so weird any mysterious how the human body functions

like cramming for a test and forgetting the answers a week later or something..

spaced repetition for improved immune pedagogy?

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Well .... I had to look up pedagogy ....
I think these mRNA vaccines are the drug companies dream come true. Gotta keep getting those boosters .... gotta get protection for this new variant .... The goal with most medicine now days is not to cure something ..... no, no, no ..... Cure is a dirty 4 letter word to them..... They want to figure out how to get a condition in "maintenance" mode where you can sell something forever and if they quit, overwhelms them.

If I had it to do over again knowing what I know now, I would probably get the J&J that's not mRNA. I haven't read up on how fast it's protection fades though.

I got vaccinated with Pfizer back in January/February. Only side effect was sore arm both times.

Yesterday I spent a few hours investigating getting the booster. Seems like evidence (mostly from Israel) points strongly to the booster helping prevent asymptomatic and mild cases of Covid. It doesn't seem like it makes a big difference in death and hospitalization whether you get the booster or not.

I have decided I will get the booster mostly because of Long Covid (which seems like it can occur whether you have serious case or not). From all the evidence I can find, it seems the risks from getting covid (even a mild or asymptomatic case) are worse than the known risks of the vaccine. Since I have already got the vaccine, the added risks of a booster seem negligible.

I will get the Pfizer booster since that went smoothly before. Might be the right or wrong decision - time will tell and more info will certainly come out over time - Nothing to do now except look at the evidence you can find (and trust) and make best decision for you in your circumstances...