Ampere Time 24V 100Ah arrived severely discharged

carolinabigfoot · Nov 10, 2021

Today I unpacked an Ampere Time 24V 100Ah that I received 2 days ago. A first voltage reading straight out of the box showed only 10.46V! The manual lists 0% SOC at 19V. Is this battery still 100% functional or should it be returned? If it is still 100% functional, how can it be safely brought back? Will any LiFePO4 battery charger do or would this charger need to have some special features?

Supervstech · Nov 10, 2021

It may have bms disconnect, I would put a charge 9n it and see if it recovers above 19v

John Frum · Nov 10, 2021

carolinabigfoot said:
Today I unpacked an Ampere Time 24V 100Ah that I received 2 days ago. A first voltage reading straight out of the box showed only 10.46V! The manual lists 0% SOC at 19V. Is this battery still 100% functional or should it be returned? If it is still 100% functional, how can it be safely brought back? Will any LiFePO4 battery charger do or would this charger need to have some special features?

Is this supposed to be a brand new battery?
Is there a production date on it?

carolinabigfoot · Nov 10, 2021

smoothJoey said:
Is this supposed to be a brand new battery?
Is there a production date on it?

Yes, bought it on Amazon on 11/02. The serial # reads APT20210615A24100-US204. From that I would conclude that the production date is 06/15/2021.

John Frum · Nov 10, 2021

carolinabigfoot said:
Yes, bought it on Amazon on 11/02. The serial # reads APT20210615A24100-US204. From that I would conclude that the production date is 06/15/2021.

I'm concerned that your battery has 1 or more cells with an unacceptably high rate of self discharge.
If it was me I would charge the battery full.
Then run a capacity test.
Then charge it full and leave it sit for up to a month to see if the self discharge is going to be a problem.
It should settle a lot in the first 24 hours and very little for the rest of the month.

carolinabigfoot · Nov 10, 2021

smoothJoey said:
Then run a capacity test.

What capacity tester do you use?

John Frum · Nov 10, 2021

carolinabigfoot said:
What capacity tester do you use?

This one for individual cells https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07T86XS1N
To capacity test my pack I used a ceramic heater.
Almost all ceramic heaters draw 1440 watts.
My inverter is ~90% efficient so the math is...
1440 ac watts / .9 conversion efficiency = 1600 dc watts
My battery is 280amp hours at 25.6 volts nominal = 7168 watt hours
So I would expect to get 7168 watt hours / 1600 dc watts = 4.48 hours runtime.

Nerd math beyond this point!
Ceramic heaters draw 1440 watts because of the 80% rule.
Cotinuos use loads must only use 80% of the wire's ampacity rating.
120 volts / 15 amps * .8 fuse headroom = 1440 watts.

John Frum · Nov 10, 2021

Also I have a smart bms that does current accounting plus a hall effect sensor based battery monitor to make sure my math is correct.

carolinabigfoot · Nov 10, 2021

smoothJoey said:
Ceramic heaters draw 1440 watts because of the 80% rule.
Cotinuos use loads must only use 80% of the wire's ampacity rating.

Where is this coming from? Is this some kind of government regulation? Does it apply to other/all electrical appliances?

sunshine_eggo · Nov 10, 2021

Was the battery below freezing when it arrived?

carolinabigfoot · Nov 10, 2021

smoothJoey said:
So I would expect to get 7168 watt hours / 1600 dc watts = 4.48 hours runtime.

Did you do it? How did it turn out?

carolinabigfoot · Nov 10, 2021

sunshine_eggo said:
Was the battery below freezing when it arrived?

It came with UPS. We had 60'F weather. How cold it got during potential air travel is anybody's guess. But while in my possession it was never anywhere close to freezing.

sunshine_eggo · Nov 10, 2021

carolinabigfoot said:
It came with UPS. We had 60'F weather. How cold it got during potential air travel is anybody's guess. But while in my possession it was never anywhere close to freezing.

Just making sure it wasn't cold temp protection.

Given that you got it from Amazon, I wouldn't mess with it. Return it and get another.

John Frum · Nov 10, 2021

carolinabigfoot said:
Did you do it? How did it turn out?

I got ~252 amp hours with a low voltage disconnect of 24 volts and all the cells were still within 35 milli volts so I was happy.
Even more happy when they re-converged within 10 milli volts at the top.

John Frum · Nov 10, 2021

carolinabigfoot said:
Where is this coming from? Is this some kind of government regulation? Does it apply to other/all electrical appliances?

What are the Max Watts on a 15/20 Amp Circuit? - Builder's Calculator

What are the max watts on a 15 amp circuit or 20 amp circuit before the breaker will trip? Let's do the math.

www.builderscalculator.com

Applies to appliances that have a duty cycle equal to or greater than 3 hours.

Enla · Nov 19, 2021

As far as I know , accroding to the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations, lithium ion batteries limited to a maximum of 30% SOC. Maybe it's because there's no electricity , Or maybe the temperature is too low. You'd better consult their customer service first.

carolinabigfoot · Nov 23, 2021

It turned out that the battery was dead on arrival. The customer service of the company was helpful though. I usually had an email reply in less than 24 hours, just as they had promised in their advertising. After none of their suggestions on how to get the battery up and working worked out they issued a refund and paid for the shipping back. But I don't think I want to go for another one of these batteries since (in my opinion) this one shouldn't have made it through quality control. Hopefully the SOK 24V 100Ah is available soon. Thanks to everybody that replied!

Kcdaniels · Dec 22, 2021

carolinabigfoot said:
It turned out that the battery was dead on arrival. The customer service of the company was helpful though. I usually had an email reply in less than 24 hours, just as they had promised in their advertising. After none of their suggestions on how to get the battery up and working worked out they issued a refund and paid for the shipping back. But I don't think I want to go for another one of these batteries since (in my opinion) this one shouldn't have made it through quality control. Hopefully the SOK 24V 100Ah is available soon. Thanks to everybody that replied!

What battery did you end up purchasing ?

Nobodybusiness · Dec 22, 2021

carolinabigfoot said:
Where is this coming from? Is this some kind of government regulation? Does it apply to other/all electrical appliances?

Not a law but kinda gentlemen’s agreement to keep from tripping peoples breakers and causing fires in poorly constructed homes. If they sent them out at 1800 watts that is the full 100% of 15 amp breaker and any surge or just plugging in a vacuum cleaner in the same room would trip the breaker.

John Frum · Dec 22, 2021

Biasjo said:
Not a law but kinda gentlemen’s agreement to keep from tripping peoples breakers and causing fires in poorly constructed homes. If they sent them out at 1800 watts that is the full 100% of 15 amp breaker and any surge or just plugging in a vacuum cleaner in the same room would trip the breaker.

"Section 384-16(c) of the NEC also states that a standard OCPD (overcurrent protection device) can be loaded to only 80% of its rating for continuous loads." -- https://www.builderscalculator.com/2021/01/29/max-watts-15-20-amp-circuit/

Nobodybusiness · Dec 22, 2021

smoothJoey said:
"Section 384-16(c) of the NEC also states that a standard OCPD (overcurrent protection device) can be loaded to only 80% of its rating for continuous loads." -- https://www.builderscalculator.com/2021/01/29/max-watts-15-20-amp-circuit/

So I guess Hairdryer Manufacturers are exempt from this NEC statute? The NEC does not dictate manufacturing process. The NEC is for electricians and GCs.

Supervstech · Dec 22, 2021

Biasjo said:
So I guess Hairdryer Manufacturers are exempt from this NEC statute? The NEC does not dictate manufacturing process. The NEC is for electricians and GCs.

Correct, this ruling would not apply to a hair dryer… but I cannot imagine a handheld hairdryer having the internal spacing for over 1500W… talk about heated hair! Heck… the hot air guns don’t exceed that, and they are for stripping paint etc…

Insurance companies and the UL labs dictate what appliances are capable of I would think…

John Frum · Dec 22, 2021

Biasjo said:
So I guess Hairdryer Manufacturers are exempt from this NEC statute? The NEC does not dictate manufacturing process. The NEC is for electricians and GCs.

A hairdryer is not a continuous use device.

mactech · Dec 22, 2021

smoothJoey said:
A hairdryer is not a continuous use device.

It's a never used device if you're bald!

Nobodybusiness · Dec 22, 2021

smoothJoey said:
A hairdryer is not a continuous use device.

Irrelevant. NEC does not dictate manufacturing standards. It’s a gentleman’s agreement. No law says this. NEC code is followed at building sites and UL listings but a manufacturer can make it pull whatever watts it’s wants.

Ampere Time 24V 100Ah arrived severely discharged

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