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Inverter Kicking Off

Gabrielle said:
Apparently not. It seems that the temperature controller was causing the problem. I'm not able to stress test at the moment but so far so good with new approach.
Click to expand...

How have you determined the temperature controller is the problem?
And how does the problem manifest?
 
smoothJoey said:
Grounding is complicated and not do be done capriciously.
Please read and understand this whole series of documents before you start poking the beast.
diysolarforum.com

Grounding Made simpler - Part 1: AC/houshold grounding

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. The subject of grounding is a complex, multifaceted subject, that is often treated as an after-thought but needs to be considered from the beginning of the design and build...
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com
Click to expand...
My approach is anything but capricious but I was under the impression that grounding in a mobile application was relatively simple and seems that some don't even bother.

Im definitely wanting to properly ground though. So thanks for the document I'll check it out.
 
smoothJoey said:
How have you determined the temperature controller is the problem?
And how does the problem manifest?
Click to expand...
The problem was manifesting with the inverter beeping out of control and shutting down anytime I plugged my 'converted' fridge in, which was where this thread began.

I plugged the freezer in without the controller after realizing the appliance can be set to a low 'fridge' setting and now things are running without shutting the inverter down. Therefore, I am hopeful that this was the problem all along.
 
Gabrielle said:
The problem was manifesting with the inverter beeping out of control and shutting down anytime I plugged my 'converted' fridge in, which was where this thread began.

I plugged the freezer in without the controller after realizing the appliance can be set to a low 'fridge' setting and now things are running without shutting the inverter down. Therefore, I am hopeful that this was the problem all along.
Click to expand...
What does the inverter manual say the beeping means?
 
smoothJoey said:
What does the inverter manual say the beeping means?
Click to expand...
It does not say anything. Checking that was troubleshooting step one for me, about a week ago- well it does say there's a low voltage alarm and high voltage cutoff if I remember correctly.
 
Gabrielle said:
if the motor does not have to run at its full capacity doesn't it use less watts? and are you saying the kill-a-watt meter is not accurate when it reads 70 watts with compressor on?
Click to expand...
A motor at its recommended voltage and same load always runs at its full capacity. It will run with the same watts because the temperature in the fridge doesn’t change the load on the motor. If running as a fridge it will run with less watt-hours because it will work for less time per hour
Gabrielle said:
Regardless sounds like 1000 watt would be appropriate for this fridge
Click to expand...
I’m running a 5CF (4.5CF?) fridge on 1000W MPPSolar 1012LV with no probs, and ran all last year on a 1200W Giandel no probs.
Gabrielle said:
Why would you add insulation to the unit? just curious..that's the whole reason I used a freezer
Click to expand...
To be even MORE efficient :)
My 5CF isn’t very thick insulated- it does ok - fine- but annoys my head that it’s less than half as thick as my RV fridge was.
Gabrielle said:
I'll disconnect the going-wack inverter
Click to expand...
Personally, I do not know that brand inverter. It looks like some others…
Anyways I don’t know if returning is an option but I’d have lost my attention span on that thing and bought something else. It seems like you’ve done the things that make sense, so other than if that unit has a defrost cycle that hits 18A or something (unlikely?) I’d blame the inverter- right or wrong. I do know Giandel, Reliable, and MPP stuff works, and Victron and the other top-shelf inverters have a good rep.
I know my 1200W Giandel pure sine has been flawless for four years, but if it had issues I would have had something else and quick.
Gabrielle said:
This would mean I need a 6 AWG or even 4 AWG run to the chassis from the inverter case? Seems odd when the grounding post is so small on the inverter. Just run it from there down to the chassis and screw the wire in anywhere on the metal?
Click to expand...
Read the grounding info others linked. But in an RV my way of doing that case ground is to ground the battery or busbar to the frame- yes- but run the case ground homerun to the busbar or battery. In an RV that is your earth. Read below.
Gabrielle said:
When parked if I want to earth ground it I would just run a wire from the case to a metal post (like a copper rod) in the earth?
Click to expand...
NO. Absolutely do not do that
Gabrielle said:
Or if it's already grounded to the chassis for driving then when parked extend it from chassis to the earth post
Click to expand...
The issue is with shorepower the “ground” is completed at the hitching post (the source of power) and adding a ground is actually dangerous. The ground needs to be established at the source of power for 120VAC. While 12VDC may have a ‘ground’ connection as well it doesn’t need dirt to be grounded. The grounding links will show you how on shore power the ground will find ‘dirt’ through the hitching post for shorepower and how to insure safe grounding while on inverter power.
smoothJoey said:
Grounding is complicated and not do be done capriciously.
Please read and understand this whole series of documents before you start poking the beast.
diysolarforum.com

Grounding Made simpler - Part 1: AC/houshold grounding

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. The subject of grounding is a complex, multifaceted subject, that is often treated as an after-thought but needs to be considered from the beginning of the design and build...
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com
Click to expand...
 
Gabrielle said:
I mean definitely I've been frustrated as hell. Weeks of frustration with this system, ha! But right now not so much frustrated, just responding to what's being asked
Click to expand...
It just shut off again, so NOW frustrated yes, very. Gonna go sleep about it.
 
Before you head off to bed, which buzzer state maps to your problem?
Continuous or intermittent?
 
smoothJoey said:
Page 20 describes the buzzer stat
Click to expand...

12VoltInstalls said:
A motor at its recommended voltage and same load always runs at its full capacity. It will run with the same watts because the temperature in the fridge doesn’t change the load on the motor. If running as a fridge it will run with less watt-hours because it will work for less time per hour

I’m running a 5CF (4.5CF?) fridge on 1000W MPPSolar 1012LV with no probs, and ran all last year on a 1200W Giandel no probs.

To be even MORE efficient :)
My 5CF isn’t very thick insulated- it does ok - fine- but annoys my head that it’s less than half as thick as my RV fridge was.

Personally, I do not know that brand inverter. It looks like some others…
Anyways I don’t know if returning is an option but I’d have lost my attention span on that thing and bought something else. It seems like you’ve done the things that make sense, so other than if that unit has a defrost cycle that hits 18A or something (unlikely?) I’d blame the inverter- right or wrong. I do know Giandel, Reliable, and MPP stuff works, and Victron and the other top-shelf inverters have a good rep.
I know my 1200W Giandel pure sine has been flawless for four years, but if it had issues I would have had something else and quick.

Read the grounding info others linked. But in an RV my way of doing that case ground is to ground the battery or busbar to the frame- yes- but run the case ground homerun to the busbar or battery. In an RV that is your earth. Read below.

NO. Absolutely do not do that

The issue is with shorepower the “ground” is completed at the hitching post (the source of power) and adding a ground is actually dangerous. The ground needs to be established at the source of power for 120VAC. While 12VDC may have a ‘ground’ connection as well it doesn’t need dirt to be grounded. The grounding links will show you how on shore power the ground will find ‘dirt’ through the hitching post for shorepower and how to insure safe grounding while on inverter power.
Click to expand...
I've been talking to the company this week. Passed my Amazon return by a couple days. Definitely lost my patience with it ages ago and would've bought higher quality to begin with knowing what I know now.

Good info on the grounding. See I get these ideas from other threads like the stick a rod in the ground but I know it's a scramble of ideas and not necessarily relevant to my setup. I guess I was taking grounding as a bit of an afterthought. When learning from Will Prowse vids he just ran a wire from the case to the dc fuse box neg. Looked simple enough.

Gonna read up on those docs and get real studious again before I ground. And done with the troubleshooting.. gonna try a quality inverter.
 
smoothJoey said:
Before you head off to bed, which buzzer state maps to your problem?
Continuous or intermittent?
Click to expand...
Continuous I believe. I mean even that's up for interpretation to me! Not continuous as in nonstop but as in beep, beep, beep, about every second.
 
Gabrielle said:
It just shut off again, so NOW frustrated yes, very. Gonna go sleep about it.
Click to expand...
So much information to process and a lot of it going nowhere. If your living in a RV and its connected to a proper electrical service and its got a ground wire thats all you need per the NEC. Getting your inverter connected to that RV ground may or may not help. I am thinking again that your inverter is bad. You can run a temporary ground via a jumper wire to try if you wish.
 
The inverter manual also talks about status lights.
Usually the sequence and combination of buzzer and lights will give more insight.
But, I understand that you are over the whole troubleshooting thing.
 
Last edited:
I would start simple and charge that battery to SOK’s stated fully charged voltage. You know it’s not DC over voltage. So it’s DC under voltage or AC over amperage on startup. The freezer may work as a fridge but the start amps may be higher than if it were working at 0 deg f. You could switch back to freezer mode. The thermostat cycle differential may be smaller on the fridge setting causing a restart before refrigerant is fully equalized. We already know the refrigerant will be at higher pressures than at freezer temperatures. From the picture I don’t think you have adequate ventilation on the sides. The condenser will be hotter as a fridge than freezer.
 
acdoctor said:
I would start simple and charge that battery to SOK’s stated fully charged voltage. You know it’s not DC over voltage. So it’s DC under voltage or AC over amperage on startup. The freezer may work as a fridge but the start amps may be higher than if it were working at 0 deg f. You could switch back to freezer mode. The thermostat cycle differential may be smaller on the fridge setting causing a restart before refrigerant is fully equalized. We already know the refrigerant will be at higher pressures than at freezer temperatures. From the picture I don’t think you have adequate ventilation on the sides. The condenser will be hotter as a fridge than freezer.
Click to expand...

The manual points to a Over Voltage fault and its been suggested the Inverter is defective. But I do agree with your thoughts on pressures.


After working in the commercial HVAC/R field for 30 years, I have been very aware of compressor overload due to high evaporator temperature loads. We used various methods to overcome the pull down load over current condition, a crankcase pressure regulator was one. This is totally un-related to her problem but to correct folks who get info off Google and post here.

Crankcase Pressure Regulators

A crankcase pressure regulator (CPR) is a common accessory added to many low-temperature refrigeration applications, such as walk-in and reach-in freezers. The selection of a CPR is based on five system considerations.
www.achrnews.com www.achrnews.com
 
Gabrielle said:
I still don't think this is correct. (again limited knowledge here.. but if the motor does not have to run at its full capacity doesn't it use less watts? and are you saying the kill-a-watt meter is not accurate when it reads 70 watts with compressor on? Regardless sounds like 1000 watt would be appropriate for this fridge
Click to expand...
While the motor is running it uses the same number Watts. As the temperature controller shuts the motor off some % of the day, the motor uses less Watt Hours. Say the motor needs 100 Watts. When the motor is running it uses 100W, that is 0.84 amperes at 120 Volts. It uses this power all the time it is running. Running 24 hours a day that is 2400 Watt Hours in one day. If the controller switches the motor off 25% of the time, that is the motor running 6 hours a day, or 600 Watt Hours for one day. The motor still needs 0.84 amperes at 120 volts when it is running. That would be approximately 10 amperes from the 12 volt battery. These numbers are just as an example to help explain Watt Hours and Watts. I'm sure our genius crew will explain that I am wrong because 100 watts at 120 volts is not 0.84 amps. Or maybe, that is not how motors work.

Important. "Grounding" the case lug. In my van builds; The battery bank negative is connected to the van chassis. The case lugs on devices are connected to the chassis. My inverter manual lists case lug cable size 8 awg. I have used 4 awg and everything is fine. Inverter dc feed cables are 2/0 awg.
If you have a shoreline connection. That green earth wire needs be connected to the chassis. But only needed when plugged into the grid.
As posted above, but needing repetition, do not have any ground rod or such thing on the vehicle.
 
wmgeorge said:
So much information to process and a lot of it going nowhere. If your living in a RV and its connected to a proper electrical service and its got a ground wire thats all you need per the NEC. Getting your inverter connected to that RV ground may or may not help. I am thinking again that your inverter is bad. You can run a temporary ground via a jumper wire to try if you wish.
Click to expand...
I'm living in my RV boondocking so getting it functioning will really improve my quality of life. As it is I'm juggling working in the dark, food going bad etc. I'm wondering if the fridge does have a high amp defrost since now it's only going off after 8 hours!

Regardless, just might try a new inverter
 
Zil said:
While the motor is running it uses the same number Watts. As the temperature controller shuts the motor off some % of the day, the motor uses less Watt Hours. Say the motor needs 100 Watts. When the motor is running it uses 100W, that is 0.84 amperes at 120 Volts. It uses this power all the time it is running. Running 24 hours a day that is 2400 Watt Hours in one day. If the controller switches the motor off 25% of the time, that is the motor running 6 hours a day, or 600 Watt Hours for one day. The motor still needs 0.84 amperes at 120 volts when it is running. That would be approximately 10 amperes from the 12 volt battery. These numbers are just as an example to help explain Watt Hours and Watts. I'm sure our genius crew will explain that I am wrong because 100 watts at 120 volts is not 0.84 amps. Or maybe, that is not how motors work.

Important. "Grounding" the case lug. In my van builds; The battery bank negative is connected to the van chassis. The case lugs on devices are connected to the chassis. My inverter manual lists case lug cable size 8 awg. I have used 4 awg and everything is fine. Inverter dc feed cables are 2/0 awg.
If you have a shoreline connection. That green earth wire needs be connected to the chassis. But only needed when plugged into the grid.
As posted above, but needing repetition, do not have any ground rod or such thing on the vehicle.
Click to expand...
When you plug in to shore power there's a green wire somewhere?

I'm hardly ever going to be plugged in. I'm relying on solar and my generator if need be.

I didn't know about grounding the battery negative. I hear that, I won't do the rod thing.
 
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