Door to door sales people

Tim Tim said:

It is grid tied but yes I have an option for a battery bank but to be honest it isn’t worth it. I use very little from the grid and the largest cost on my bill is the daily connection charge of AU$1.04 per day. The buyback rate is only AU 7.6 cents but it is enough to keep my bill down substantially. I must admit though the climate here makes a huge difference with the winter month of June producing an average of 37.26kW a day.

I haven't looked at whether I could buy, build and connect up my batteries as the payback time would be substantial and something like a Tesla Powerwall is about AU$14,000 to AU$16,000 fully installed so that is most definitely not worth it.

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you don't have any obligation with the utility company?

seems like solar gets incentives down there with the utility company but u are bound for X amount of time you can't alter it

GSXR1000 said:

you don't have any obligation with the utility company?

seems like solar gets incentives down there with the utility company but u are bound for X amount of time you can't alter it

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Yes ther are plenty of incentives to install solar here. I’m on a one year contract so I am able to change utility companies if I want to after that. Some of the companies offer plans to install solar for you but then you are tied to them for about 7 years.

Tim Tim said:

Yes ther are plenty of incentives to install solar here. I’m on a one year contract so I am able to change utility companies if I want to after that. Some of the companies offer plans to install solar for you but then you are tied to them for about 7 years.

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there is basically zero incentive in the USA... the tax credit by my understanding is on only if you itemize and must middle class don't

Tim Tim said:

Yes ther are plenty of incentives to install solar here. I’m on a one year contract so I am able to change utility companies if I want to after that. Some of the companies offer plans to install solar for you but then you are tied to them for about 7 years.

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so the utility company is giving you a perk? or one year just so you can net meter. and what about money from the government.

many utility company here don't allow you to sell power back or if so it isn't 1-1

I've got solar on my roof (self installed), visible from the street, visible from the front door even.
But I still get door to door salesmen asking about my solar!
What's the point? Why are you here? None of them have answered that with any honesty. They all say, "just checking in to see how it is doing"

GSXR1000 said:

there is basically zero incentive in the USA... the tax credit by my understanding is on only if you itemize and must middle class don't

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From what I read it's a credit (like child tax credit), not a deduction. So you can still use the "standard deduction" that most people use instead of itemizing.

BradCagle said:

From what I read it's a credit (like child tax credit), not a deduction. So you can still use the "standard deduction" that most people use instead of itemizing.

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This is correct. You do not have to file itemized from what I have read?

GSXR1000 said:

... the tax credit by my understanding is on only if you itemize and must middle class don't

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As other said, no need to itemize.
If you owe taxes, the credit reduces that. If you had taxes withheld, credit gets those refunded.
But it is not a "refundable" credit meaning IRS won't send you cash beyond the cash you and your employer (etc.) sent them.
Anything not used to offset taxes carries over to a future year (possibly subject to the credit existing in future years.)

One could, with planning, harvest profits from something like stock, fund a Roth rather than conventional IRA, etc. to increase tax liability so the credit gets used.

GSXR1000 said:

so the utility company is giving you a perk? or one year just so you can net meter. and what about money from the government.

many utility company here don't allow you to sell power back or if so it isn't 1-1

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The prices quoted by the solar installers are after the government rebate have been taken into consideration. All that happens here is that the solar installer checks whether your property is eligible for the government rebate. Once you have chosen what size system your require you sign a contract with the solar installer for the price they have quoted for the system. They install the system and then obtain the rebate from the government. Basically all I had to do was sign two forms that were pre-filled.


The size of the rebate actually rises and falls with demand but is also gradually being reduced so it becomes zero in 2031. In my case the rebate would have been about AU$4425 or US$3012.

Once the solar was installed, as I was not in a contract with my utility company I could choose whomever I liked. As it was, in going through the minefield, I considered that my then current supplier had a good deal so I signed a one year contract with them.

There is talk here that the feed in tariffs will eventually be nil but as the electricity companies are also reliant on the solar power generated I wonder what would happen if people banded to together on one day and turned off their systems.

Interestingly to to note my system that cost AU$7,490 is now advertised at AU$9,990 .

Seriously, in this day and age, who is still buying things from Door-to-Door salesmen. If they were reputable and cost competitive, they wouldn't be doing cold visits. Don't do it!

Sjaxkingpin said:

Seriously, in this day and age, who is still buying things from Door-to-Door salesmen. If they were reputable and cost competitive, they wouldn't be doing cold visits. Don't do it!

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That is untrue. It may be true sometimes but it isn’t true across the board or across people

Tim Tim said:

Sry but I’m not that rude , more than happy to share the details which I had already posted.

It cost me AU$7,490 for a 9.9kW grid tied system or US$5,095. That was for REC panels and and 8.2kW Fronius inverter.

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How did I miss that! Sorry!! That's 52cents US per watts after all the incentives. It's hard to buy new panels for much less than 60 cents in the US nowadays. And if it's on a residential roof top you've got any where from $30 to $80 per module to comply with rapid shut down.

I've caught a few energy related podcasts over the last year where they mentioned to how Australia had the cost before incentives down to less $1/watt thanks to lots of streamlining. Good for you!

Caveat Emptor.

Never agree to anything or sign anything with a door to door (or any other) salesman.
Ask for literature and websites. Then do research. Then get competitive bids.
Perform due diligence before making significant decisions, like spending $50,000 (Whether for PV or a timeshare).
If it is a now-or-never deal, WALK AWAY!

Jim H said:

Sounds like the timeshare cats have got a new concept to sell people on…watch yer step folks…

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Very much so. I recently got a SOLAR marketing piece in the mail that obviously started out life as a time share marketing piece. The classic "free steak or lobster dinner" pitch. The fine print on the bottom still had the language referring to time shares not being an investment etc.

OzSolar said:

Very much so. I recently got a SOLAR marketing piece in the mail that obviously started out life as a time share marketing piece. The classic "free steak or lobster dinner" pitch. The fine print on the bottom still had the language referring to time shares not being an investment etc.

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That is so funny… thanks for sharing… when the money starts to be easy and plentiful, count on the sharks to not be far behind. Because of the sharks and blatant misrepresentation and scams , I suggest within 3 to 5 years alt energy and solar will be one of the heaviest regulated businesses in the country. A person will need a lawyer and a EE on his team just to interpret what he can and can’t do.
Big money draws big sharks which causes big regulation which ends up costing us big bucks…

Jim H said:

That is so funny… thanks for sharing… when the money starts to be easy and plentiful, count on the sharks to not be far behind. Because of the sharks and blatant misrepresentation and scams , I suggest within 3 to 5 years alt energy and solar will be one of the heaviest regulated businesses in the country. A person will need a lawyer and a EE on his team just to interpret what he can and can’t do.
Big money draws big sharks which causes big regulation which ends up costing us big bucks…

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I wish I still had it so I could scan it in for others to see. I did just remember something (link below) that a buddy sent me a few months backs. Pretty much sums what we've been talking about.

Hidden cameras reveal dark side of solar power​

I've tried to keep my eye on the solar industry for a while now. All you have to do is read a few job listings for solar sales people and you'll be left no doubt that they are looking for folks that are so aggressive they make timeshare sales people look timid.

I've come to the unscientific conclusion that most of the solar energy companies out there are really finance companies trying to tie many people's most valuable assets for a decades by using fancy sounding but fake financial terms and financing so locked down that you'll have to get a lawyer involved to stand a chance of getting out of. Using more and more plays straight out of the timeshare book.

12VoltInstalls said:

Well as someone currently employed in sales that hurts my feelings. ??

Many things over the years have been and are sold by salespeople. Without ‘tactics.’

You find/meet customers where they are- if you sell a product used at home that is where you meet them. I ‘miss’ sales I know I could get because I have a very sensitive conscience and therefore can’t handle doing ‘tactics.’

But word of mouth isn’t the end-all. A part of the mix but not the bulk of my new leads. Sales isn’t easy but it’s not difficult and doesn’t need to be dishonest.

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Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but I stand by my statement for most instances. Getting one's information about a prospective purchase from a salesman isn't wise. While a salesman may not outright lie to a customer, they certainly will paint their products in the best light. I buyer needs to be able to compare options objectively.

BoloMKXXVIII said:

Getting one's information about a prospective purchase from a salesman isn't wise.

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So when you go to get advice about your health concerns do you go to the tire store? Or ask your doctor? If you want to buy a car do you ask your dentist what to purchase?

Going to a salesman who knows his product, his competition, and the industry is very wise. He should be able to provide excellent answers to your questions and show you where to find the information to back up his claims. He should explore your questions and reiterate them to ascertain whether they adequately answered you. His goal should be to provide enough information to make a careful and informed decision.
Basically you distrust salespeople carte blanc which is a bit odd unless that is projection of one’s own trustworthiness.

If one is susceptible to scammers that’s on them-not their sales contact.

OzSolar said:

I wish I still had it so I could scan it in for others to see. I did just remember something (link below) that a buddy sent me a few months backs. Pretty much sums what we've been talking about.

Hidden cameras reveal dark side of solar power​

I've tried to keep my eye on the solar industry for a while now. All you have to do is read a few job listings for solar sales people and you'll be left no doubt that they are looking for folks that are so aggressive they make timeshare sales people look timid.

I've come to the unscientific conclusion that most of the solar energy companies out there are really finance companies trying to tie many people's most valuable assets for a decades by using fancy sounding but fake financial terms and financing so locked down that you'll have to get a lawyer involved to stand a chance of getting out of. Using more and more plays straight out of the timeshare book.

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You are correct in your assessment ..not everyone is being slippery but this is no different than many revolutionary new things in the past…
the product changes but the pitch and the techniques stays the same.. be it land tracts, time sharing , futures commodity sales, CONDO’S ( yes condos) RV sales haaaaa (that may be about as bad as it gets in some cases) ..… campground memberships , gym memberships the list goes on forever.
There are plenty of GOOD people doing honest work in all these fields but the sharks are always circling the area watching for an easy mark……and they fowl the water for everyone…
when they bring in the “closers” to any business ,they turn up the heat and there is an endless supply of customers who are gullible , or to lazy to do the research or aren’t capable of certain levels of learning.. trusting people get whacked , greedy people get whacked , old people get whacked…
There is no free lunch in life…….

mjgonsow said:

So a friend at work just got a quote for a system of an unknown size and he signed paperwork for a nearly $50,000 dollar system at a 1.95% interest rate over 25 years. I believe he said he gets back 26% when he files his taxes. He doesn't believe this includes any kind of battery back-up, I'm guessing it's going to be about a 10+ KW Grid tied system. They take care of everything, permitting, install, any roof repair before mounting etc...

When he told me this price I couldn't believe anyone would pay this kind of money, but I guess it's somewhat easily justifiable since his monthly payments will be less than what he is going to be saving on his electric bill.

My question is, how common is it to buy good, but slightly used panels. Do all the permit pulling/work yourself and save an absurd amount of money? I was doing a little math and it seemed I could get everything I need minus the panels/mounting for under 5k ... does this sound possible?

These door to door salesmen/companies must be raking in the money.

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What county are you in? I have been an honest D2D salesman for 9 years in CA. The financing companies are charging a 22% dealer fee on top of the $4/watt ? price they are charging and making $10k+ commission. I can help your friend DIY for around $2.50/watt or less depending on where you are located.

Tim Tim said:

I paid it outright.

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Cash avoids the 20-26% ridiculous financing fees the loan companies are charging for a 1.99% rate.

12VoltInstalls said:

Basically you distrust salespeople carte blanc which is a bit odd unless that is projection of one’s own trustworthiness.

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I either walk into a store, pick merchandise off the shelf and go to cash register (preferably self-checkout),
or I go to an auction and outbid other buyers (never have to speak with a salesman that way, but Caveat Emptor).

Of course with the auction format I get stuck sometimes, but hopefully the bargains make up for that.

I've bid on cars, houses, tools ...
In particular, bought a number of cars.

I don't want anybody, least of all a salesman, to tell me about the product. I want to read it (and keep a copy.)

Firebear Energy said:

What county are you in? I have been an honest D2D salesman for 9 years in CA. The financing companies are charging a 22% dealer fee on top of the $4/watt ? price they are charging and making $10k+ commission. I can help your friend DIY for around $2.50/watt or less depending on where you are located.

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USA, Florida. I agree it's crazy expensive; which is why I made the post, I couldn't believe the price he told me. I haven't talked to him since last week, so I'll see if he's tied in or backed out. The problem is he doesn't want to have to do a thing, he's not a DIY'er at all.

mjgonsow said:

USA, Florida. I agree it's crazy expensive; which is why I made the post, I couldn't believe the price he told me. I haven't talked to him since last week, so I'll see if he's tied in or backed out. The problem is he doesn't want to have to do a thing, he's not a DIY'er at all.

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Send him that video posted up top, and warn him getting scammed.

Hedges said:

I don't want anybody, least of all a salesman, to tell me about the product. I want to read it (and keep a copy.)

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But you are a flyer on the curve. You know in advance or know how to inform yourself.

I give people information they do not usually know how to aquire on their own. This educates them. If they do not wish to purchase immediately based on that information I have educated them sufficiently to have the ‘vocabulary’ to inquire of my competitors.

More often than not the active consumer will choose to buy my products once they’ve done some research. I sometimes lose sales to “closers” and sometimes to a lower price (of usually a lesser product) but more often I get the sale based on my product and often get the sale based on price (apples to apples my company’s installed price is lower than my top three competitors).

There’s a few things I do and a few more things I don’t do based on my personal morals. Do I “lose” sales because of that? Yes- but I don’t view that as my losing anything. And my way of being honest and ‘soft’ yields me anywhere from 150- 300% ‘close rate’ of average for my company. I get sales others won’t because they discover they can trust.

Not everyone ‘needs’ a salesman to inform them about a product just like not everyone needs a doctor to tell them how to be healthy or an installer to put a home security system in.
Some do.

Sales is a legitimate, honorable profession if carried out by legitimate, honest people. There’s plenty of sharks and plenty of prey everywhere- I’ve sold to ‘prey’ (victim) customers; I can recognize them but I don’t victimize them.

People inquiring on a product are going to buy from someone and they’re a lot better off buying my product at our price than they are buying any product at any price.
And I make sure these people are aware of what they are getting. I sell them after they buy the product.

You can’t tank all salespeople just because the sharks exist. They provide many people with a valuable resource they otherwise may not have the advantage of having just like selecting a good cpa or mechanic or lawyer or house painter. Personally I’m somewhat glad the sharks exist- makes my job easier.