Schneider Conext XW

If anyone who reads this has a slightly used or new XW6848 Pro for sale or knows of one, or a good deal, please write
I'm in Florida.

Or even a gateway you don't want or need.

I don't know of any used ones on the market right now, but a new XW-Pro is going for about $3,400 USD. AltE store and Eco direct are both under $3,300 right now. The Gateway is not discontinued, replaced by the Insight Home or Insight Facility boxes. I am using a Gateway, 400bird has the Insight Home. I checked Ebay, they have new XW's, but asking $4,000... not a deal. Real Goods has it for $3,540.03 with free shipping.

Ebay does have an XW+, but it looks like the European model 7048E asking $1,500

I got the newer Insight Home to perform the same with modbus and webpage as the 2-year old gateway version.
Now, grid codes is another crap shoot.
I can set them with the codes on both boxes but only system will only sell to grid with older gateway.
When I move my Xanbus to the Insight Home, my XW 6848 Pro drops selling to utility.
So if my system sees a gateway or no interface it will sell fine. When it sees Insight Home its like a broken dongle, selling stops.
Any clues would be great.

Did you hit every Schneider thread you could find to complain about this?

My insight allows me to sell to the grid just fine.
In fact, I'm selling about 5 kw through the XW to the grid right now.

So, I'd say it's either a setting or firmware issue. What is your firmware on the insight and inverter? If I remember correctly, there was a insight update that requires a certain XW firmware version. Both the XW and insight assume you are on compatible version x and newer.

Problem still exists with the XW 6848 Pro unit. You can't just do a firmware update without a whole bunch of baggage.
The grid codes get compromised with every upgrade burn. And you can't fix with a local webpage reboot.
The only way to get grid codes TO WORK is the power cycle not just the AC on the unit, but disconnect ALL DC from it. Wait 30 seconds and make sure Insight Home is powered off too. Bring it up and then the grid code settings will take and work.
There has never been or isn't now any message or codes or logs to tell you what I just told you. When it don't sell you are blind sided and lose revenue.

The sw has a feature that the xw doesn't have look up smart charge on Schneider's website . Mine works fine I have to derate my solar edge when I want to use ac coupled and throw a couple interlocks . But any excess power does in fact charge the batteries when it is off-grid ac coupled .

While off grid, the XW-Pro also has no problem charging from the excess solar power. The trick is doing it while on grid. Smart Charge on the SW can do that, the XW line needs an external controller to do it.

Good info to know . I would rather as much of my excess power be used being they give me 1/4 of what I pay them for power they provide I will utilize my sw still when I am able to acquire the xw.

GXMnow said:

While off grid, the XW-Pro also has no problem charging from the excess solar power. The trick is doing it while on grid. Smart Charge on the SW can do that, the XW line needs an external controller to do it.

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@GXMnow ,What external controller, a WattNode?

ChrisG said:

@GXMnow ,What external controller, a WattNode?

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With a WattNode, it can do zero export by controlling the sell power to zero the power at the grid. But sadly, it still does not fix the AC coupled charging issue. If you are DC coupling with a Schneider MPPT, it will work just fine though.

For it to do AC coupled controlled charging, you need some sort of programmable controller to turn on charging and adjust the charge rate. I am using a Triangle Research Nano-10 PLC with a real time clock option. This little controller is able to talk Modbus TCP to the XW inverter via the Gateway or an Insight module. Another use on this forum is doing it with a Raspberry Pi. In my case, I have it running a small loop that reads the wattage at the grid, battery, and inverter output, as well as a pair of watt meters measuring the loads in my main panel. A WattNode would also work, but they are $600 or so, I am using a pair of single phase units from Amazon at $18 each. The only problem is they actually don't know the difference between importing or exporting power, so I ended up running all of the loads through then CT's. So I see the power actually being used from the main panel. The math is different, but no more or less complex. Once I know how much power the house is using, and how much the solar PV is producing beyond what the backup loads are using, I do a little math and decide if there is enough solar to turn on charging. If there is it commands a bulk charge cycle. Then it adjusts the charge rate every 5 seconds to keep the power exporting between 50 and 100 watts. If there is too much load in the backup loads panel, I do have it stop charging, but if there is too much back in the main panel, I only drop charging to 5%, about 7 amps. But Solar still needs to be making more than the backup loads panel is taking, so I am not charging from grid power. Just loads in my main panel will be taking some grid power before 4 pm. After 4 pm, I have it stop charging and I start using the battery in any loads are greater than solar supply. I do this because from 4 pm to 9 pm the time of use rate is nearly double.

Without the PLC controlling it, the XW does a decent job of supplying the loads in the panel after it, but you need a WattNode or other controller to have it help supply loads on the grid side. You can tell it a fixed amp value to send back to the grid side, but it won't adjust for load changes on it's own like it does for the load output side.

That watt node looks eerly simular to what the solar edge energy monitor looks like except the solar edge i have outside.

nokiasixteth said:

That watt node looks eerly simular to what the solar edge energy monitor looks like except the solar edge i have outside.

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I saw that too. It's probably the same exact hardware. The software may be different to allow the not-wattnode to speak Solar Edge. Or it could be exactly the same and be compatible with Schneider.

400bird said:

I saw that too. It's probably the same exact hardware. The software may be different to allow the not-wattnode to speak Solar Edge. Or it could be exactly the same and be compatible with Schneider.

Click to expand...

If I remember right solar edge uses modbus communication . That prob would come in handy in ac coupling for someone who knew how to program maybe. I don't know nothing about that type thing.

Lithium NMCGreat Thread

I am on course to ordering my XW Pro in the next couple of days
the PDP should arrive latter this week or early next week
I have to remove all my existing inverter, MPPT 60s and the conduit and the older Balance of System parts that I got back 2000 with my original Trace SW 4024:



So, I am researching my XW Pro settings that I will use once operational.

I have 60 kwh of Tesla Model S batteries - 12 of them at the moment. They have a different voltage range (36.0 empty to 50.4 full) and the XW Pro has a similar LBCO as the old Trace and my current inverter a Xantrex 5548. I have put together the following table to try to see patterns others have done and my charging profile.

I charge my batteries totally with the MPPT 60 charge controllers, 4 of them. I do not use the grid to charge, only pass through when needed as the solar charges the battery

I am requesting @400bird , @GXMnow and others if they would, to fill in the blanks of their respective battery information for the table.
Thanks


the XW Pro HBCO minimum is 58 v - way above the Tesla maximum. Needless to say my external Battery Controller will disconnect at 50.4
I still am pondering what my Grid Support value should be, as I don't fully understand it

I also will NOT be exporting to the grid, at least not at this time

I do rely on the AC1 doing bypass once LBCO occurs, thus allowing solar to recharge the battery.
The XW Pro charger will be disabled, but I want the parameters to fit my battery for those times when manual charging might need to occur (lots of rain, clouds and snow - I had half the month last Dec on AC backup)

thanks in advance

Grid support is selling to the grid or into your main panel.

If you were selling to the grid, you'd set the grid sell voltage to the point where you're batteries were full enough and you were ok exporting.
If you're not selling, turn grid support off.

My battery is 14s, I don't think my voltage settings are going to help you out.

For the high battery cut out, you aren't using the XW for charging, so it shouldn't be problematic to have that so high.

400bird said:

Grid support is selling to the grid or into your main panel.

Click to expand...

ok, thanks

400bird said:

If you were selling to the grid, you'd set the grid sell voltage to the point where you're batteries were full enough and you were ok exporting.
If you're not selling, turn grid support off.

Click to expand...

ah

400bird said:

My battery is 14s, I don't think my voltage settings are going to help you out.

Click to expand...

no, but it provides a pattern that might make sense to me
14s, what are the cell voltage range?

400bird said:

For the high battery cut out, you aren't using the XW for charging, so it shouldn't be problematic to have that so high.

Click to expand...

True, my Trace and Xantrex allow low enough HBCO that it would work for my battery. As some one mentioned, so many parameters are based on the history of FLA batteries.

So yes, I am safe. As mentioned, my BMC provides disconnect of battery for my HBCO value

Can you provide the missing data on your system?
thanks

I am sill on the older XW-Pro firmware, but I don't think that will change the voltage limits.
My low battery cut out of 14S is at 46 volts. But I just checked, the setting slider will go all the way down to just 36 volts. My setting works out to 3.538 volts per cell x 12 for the Tesla packs would still be 42.462 volts. The reason I have it this high is in case of a Dark Start situation. If I am off grid in a power fail situation, I want it to shut down with enough energy left that I can bring the system back up by changing this value lower.

My high battery cut out voltage is set way up at 64 volts. This is because of a known bug in my firmware. I was having errors and shut downs from battery voltage too high, because it was internally subtracting about 5 volts from this setting. So 64 is actually more like 59 volts. 58.8 is the limit for 14S Li NMC. For your 12S NMC Tesla batteries, that would then be 50.4 volts. The lowest my slider will go is 58 volts.

I have it set for 2-stage no float, but if I was running DC charge controllers, they would be set to float about 0.5 volt below the bulk charge voltage limit. That way the charge controllers will keep providing all of the power to run the inverter while the batteries stay full until the sun goes down.

My bulk and absorb voltage is now up to 56.98 volts. That seems like an odd number, but it is 4.07 volts per cell. That works out to 90% charged which is what LG and Chevy figured was still safe on these Bolt batteries. With your Tesla cells, I would probably still recommend the same 90% limit as it will extend the life of the cells. That last 10% is stressful on the cells. Even Tesla recommends only going to 100% when you are starting a long trip that day. In reality, yes, we are running them down each day, but unless you truly need that little extra capacity, I don't think we should stress the cells like that. 4.07 x 12S would be 48.84 volts. The sliders on my XW-Pro go all the way down to just 40 volts. My absorb time is set to 15 minutes (900 seconds), but it rarely ever seems to complete that. These batteries are so stiff that once it goes to the CV charge mode, the charge current falls to zero within 5 minutes. My float setting in the XW is at the same as my absorb at 56.98, but it is never in float. Like I said above, on a solar charge controller, it would be about 0.5 volts lower than the absorb volts. That could be a little higher to use a bit more solar power. It might take some experimenting to see what works best. At my base house load, it takes about 10-15 minutes for the battery voltage to drop 0.5 volts, so that is wasting a little solar energy you could be using with a higher float setting.

To be able to use a bit more of the batteries, I did lower my Grid Support voltage to 50.5, so it feeds my main panel down to 51 volts. This can also be set down to just 40 volts. If all of your loads are after the inverter, then selling back to grid is not needed at all. In my case, I know my PV solar and battery bank are too small, so I left a lot of less important loads back in the main panel. So I end up "exporting" quite a bit of current at times. But it is all being monitored and adjusted every 5 seconds, so that I never export more than 100 watts from the battery bank out to the grid. But when my central A/C is running and we are doing laundry, and cooking something in the microwave, I could be "exporting" around 5,000 watts back to my main panel, and using another 1,600 watts in my backup loads panel.

I'm finally sitting here with my computer to get you the numbers...




I don't think you are using grid support, but here you go:

I got the xw6848 pro and mppt60
Can find setting to accomplish the following
When I stop selling I want to see all mppt60 current going into batteries
With sell on in xw I see mppt power levels of like 2600w -- when i stop the sell by disconnecting ac1, i only see about 1200w from mppt60
Batteries are only about 70%