Schneider Conext XW

[400bird]

Maximum Export (Sell) Sell Amps
Everytime I set that it immediately pushes that much energy into the grid. Even if it pulls it out of battery bank.

I'm late to the party, so this may have already been said:

There is a voltage adjustment related to this export setting. So, when you are over this voltage level, the XW will invert DC to export AC at the max export amps setting.

I believe the idea behind this is to allow PV export after the battery is full. So, you'd set the voltage level where you want the MPPT to stop charging the battery and have solar energy go to the grid.
This allows a DC coupled, grid connected owner to have some benefits of net metering.

In short, check your settings, or the modbus commands you are sending.

 

[400bird]

400bird has to used a Rasberry-Pi-based energy monitor with inputs for multiple CT sensors to control his XW+ in a very sophisticated manner.

Thanks for the kind words!

Solark Hybtids seem to be a he other major brand that supports both consumption of excess grid-side energy to charge a battery and use of stored battery energy to offset consumption, but they are way outside my price range (not to mention the same 48V battery issue).

I'd recommend lots of reading on the Sol-ark. Some aren't happy with it's performance. Also, it is a high frequency inverter, so it won't start big loads. Like an AC unit.

 

[400bird]

Here was my grid usage yesterday. You can see around 2-3 AM my battery dropped to the grid support voltage level and slowly my grid usage tapered off. Just in time for the house to get going in the morning, the heater kicks on, coffee makers breakfast, etc. But once the sun come up, I'm letting 50-100 watts out to the grid until either the battery is fully charged or it stops charging at 3:55. Just in time to let the solar push whatever it's got out at peak rates.
I do have grid support set up to push 1 amp out for during peak rates (4-9)
Once peak rates end, the XW will allow 60ish watts from the grid and supports the rest with battery. As you can see it does allow some of the spikes from a heater cycling to come from the grid, but some does come from the battery (the heaters are 800 and 1300 watts)

I've got to tear apart my current battery. I've got 2 more packs assembled to double capacity. Then I should make it through the night on battery alone.

 

[fafrd]

I used the Schneider installation and owners manuals. Plus the modbus map. None of which spells out exactly step by step how to do it. But, Schneider is somewhat thorough with the portions they do document.

Thanks - I’ll track them down and see if I can identify the differences between XW+ and SW…

The SW manuals and modbus map would be the best source for that. I do not believe the SW can support grid side load or push battery current to grid.

For actual export, for sure not. What’s not clear to me is if you have am energy meter communicating the level of import/export, can if be used to push out enough power to offset loads (on the AC input side)?

The XW has this capacity, I am not employing it as this is outside of my use case. But, all I do have all the equipment needed.

I guess I got you confused with GXMnow - he’s offsetting grid-side loads with his XW+ but struggling to control the charger (without any energy monitor).

You’ve got veritable-power charging jurt the way you want (using your DIY energy monitor) but have no need to offset gridside consumption.

Also, the SW internal transfer switch is rated at 30 amps (vs 60a for the XW)
Plus th SW can't be stacked, so you are limited to 4kw.

I could get by with 2kW, so 30A / 7.2kW of power in from grid is more than I’ll ever need…

I haven't read recently about the SW and grid tied, but I almost went with an SW, I'm pretty sure it does grid tie and AC coupling.

Yes, as far as AC-coupled PV connected to the AC output, it’ll taper as needed using frequency-shift.

Since I have an export agreement, I’m only interested in capturing as much AC-coupled power as possible to charge up the battery without importing, but once the battery is full, exporting (for greatly reduced credit is better & simpler than tapering).

I'll see if I have the SW modbus maps and attach them later this evening.

What is your solar set up that you run the PV at 24v? Most solar charge controllers I've seen use an input of 90v minimum.

If you have shading issues, you can add Tigo RSDs with optimisers.

Severe shading issues. A 1S array of half-cut panels is giving me much better output than I could get from a long series string, even with optimizers.

If I need to go to 48V I’ll have to go 2S which will cut output until noon (I can compensate with a bigger array, but a 24V solution for my modest power nerd would be better / easier),

 

[400bird]

Severe shading issues. A 1S array of half-cut panels is giving me much better output than I could get from a long series string, even with optimizers.

If I need to go to 48V I’ll have to go 2S which will cut output until noon (I can compensate with a bigger array, but a 24V solution for my modest power nerd would be better / easier),

How do you figure that it's working better than a string with optimizers would?

 

[fafrd]

How do you figure that it's working better than a string with optimizers would?

Obviously the answer to that question depends on the exact shading pattern.

In my case, I’ve got shade from a wide oak tree moving both across the roof and eventually down from the apex of the roof.

With a 1S full-parallel array of half-cut panels, I get full output from any half l-panels that are unshaded.

Any series string is going to be completely choked off before string voltage reaches the startup voltage and even after that point, output will be limited to half-current as long as any panel in the string has shade blocking output over the lower half-panel.

A full NP1S string probably comes closest to matching what I’m getting from my full-parallel array but even with optimizers, any single panel shaded over half will result in 67% of the power I get from a full-parallel array.

Half-cut panels really change the math about partial shading…

 

[GXMnow]

This may not be the right thread to ask on, since everyone here is an XW owner, but I figure it won’t hurt to try:

1/ does the SW support the same ‘zero-export-to-CT-sensor’ capability as the XW+? (What I mean is to push enough battery power out the AC input to drive grid consumption close to 0W without exporting to grid)

2/ through an appropriately-programmed energy monitor (DIY or OTS), does the SW support the same ability to control AC-coupled battery charge current as the XW+ (as implemented by 400bird)?

I know the SW does not support ‘sell to grid’ but it’s unclear to me whether that means it cannot push any power out through it’s AC input to offset non-critical loads or it’s just limited from the other exceeding nn-critical lioad levels ;and hence exporting).

I’m hoping one or more of you XW owners may have dug into the details of the difference between the XW and SW before electing to go with the XW…

I have a strong preference for a 24V battery and do not need to export, but the ability to offset non-critical loads as well as the ability to control AC-battery charging power in order to limit/avoid AC-coupled PV export are both moorland features for me…

Unfortunately, by design, the SW inverters can't push power back out the input side terminals. It is only meant to push power to loads on it's output side. I almost went with an SW, but that was the one thing that stopped me. I knew I wanted to back feed to my main panel.

But on the flip side, the SW supports "Smart Charge" that the XW series does not. Smart charge with AC coupled solar will watch for current back feeding through the SW and if it sees current from a grid tie solar going back, it can start charging and adjust the charge current to keep the grid input side current near zero. This basically replaces the energy monitor control system that we nee on the XW. I really wish the XW-Pro could do that in software as it should have the needed hardware to be able to do it.

 

[keepsake]

"the SW supports "Smart Charge" that the XW series does not. "
When you say the XW does not , is it that their firmware is the limitation or is it a hardware design issue ?
Could external Modbus controls and algorithms make it happen ?

 

[fafrd]

Unfortunately, by design, the SW inverters can't push power back out the input side terminals. It is only meant to push power to loads on it's output side. I almost went with an SW, but that was the one thing that stopped me. I knew I wanted to back feed to my main panel.

Bummer (but what I suspected). Makes them pretty much useless for offsetting whole-house consumption.

But on the flip side, the SW supports "Smart Charge" that the XW series does not. Smart charge with AC coupled solar will watch for current back feeding through the SW and if it sees current from a grid tie solar going back, it can start charging and adjust the charge current to keep the grid input side current near zero.

If the battery charger can be programmed to absorb excess solar energy, hopefully it can be controlled the CANbus commands from an energy meter (which would allow it to absorb excess AC-coupled PV power on the grid-side rather than just any excess AC-coupled power is sees glowing through it from the AC-output side…).

This basically replaces the energy monitor control system that we nee on the XW. I really wish the XW-Pro could do that in software as it should have the needed hardware to be able to do it.

Hopefully California’s push for solar+storage will result in a lot of innovation on the hybrid inverter front.

The basic ability to support zero-export and zero-import from an energy meter connected to a hybrid inverter with a battery will hopefully by widespread and largely ‘standard’ within the next 4-5 years…

Grid controls any AC-coupled solar on the AC-input/grid side, hybrid controls any AC-coupled solar on the AC-output side (or DC-coupled solar connected to the hybrid), and the whole thing should just work.

Not yet today (without a lot of elbow-grease) but hopefully soon…

 

[GXMnow]

"the SW supports "Smart Charge" that the XW series does not. "
When you say the XW does not , is it that their firmware is the limitation or is it a hardware design issue ?
Could external Modbus controls and algorithms make it happen ?

Absolutely, just a software issue, and yes, it can be done with external control. 400bird is doing it now with a Raspberry Pi

 

[GXMnow]

If the battery charger can be programmed to absorb excess solar energy, hopefully it can be controlled the CANbus commands from an energy meter (which would allow it to absorb excess AC-coupled PV power on the grid-side rather than just any excess AC-coupled power is sees glowing through it from the AC-output side…).

It looks like the SW has most of the same modbus control registers.
I think this is the correct map for the SW

[PDF] Modbus Map: Conext™ SW Device 503-0244 - Free Download PDF

Download Modbus Map: Conext™ SW Device 503-0244...

nanopdf.com

 

[fafrd]

It looks like the SW has most of the same modbus control registers.
I think this is the correct map for the SW

[PDF] Modbus Map: Conext™ SW Device 503-0244 - Free Download PDF

Download Modbus Map: Conext™ SW Device 503-0244...

nanopdf.com

0x0005A Charge DC Current and
0x0005C Charge DC Power look promising - need to ask 400bird which register he’s using to control his XW+…

Do you know which registers the XW+ uses to control either total inverter output power or output power pushed out through the AC input?

 

[400bird]

I am sending my charge command to the register below, port 502.
EPC is "external power controller" or something similar. Schneider would not give me any brand references or even hits on how to find a commercially available component, but they did say that sending the command every 1-2 seconds was acceptable.


I have not sent anything to this register, but it may work to easily offset grid side load
If that doesn't work, you would need to spoof the communication from the WattNode meter. I downloaded their modbus map, they have it on line.
Or, you could just buy a wattnode.
Speaking of which, there are some 1/2 price on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/304176031428
I'm not sure if that is precisely the correct model. Those 100a current sensors would not work for me.


I don't think the two addresses you pointed for the SW out will work, the "r" is for read. It needs to say "rw" in the 4th column for read/write.

I do not have the modbus map for an SW with port 502, only 503. Most of the registers I am interested in were in port 502.
In glancing through the SW the only option I noticed to control charging was in amps, and you would either need to write all 3 of these registers every time or monitor which charge state was active and send commands accordingly. Also, because this command is in amps, you would need to pull battery voltage and calculate amps.

 

[keepsake]

I am using
40210,80,82,
sensor = ov_modbus.sensor(solarDev, 186, 1, signed=False) # 187 0x00BA Maximum Charge Rate uint16 rw %
I find I have to send the one lower value to make it work

 

[400bird]

If your going to include code, can you explain it if you want me to understand?

I see the modbus registers (no port, so I can't be sure)
40210 (epc max charge wattage)
80,82 (I'm guessing DC voltage and current, read only)
00BA (AC2 power apparent, read only)

The difference between needing to add one or using the register as written is dependent on whether the code author on each end started counting with 0 or 1.

 

[keepsake]

If anyone who reads this has a slightly used or new XW6848 Pro for sale or knows of one, or a good deal, please write
I'm in Florida.

 

[keepsake]

Or even a gateway you don't want or need.

 

[GXMnow]

I don't know of any used ones on the market right now, but a new XW-Pro is going for about $3,400 USD. AltE store and Eco direct are both under $3,300 right now. The Gateway is not discontinued, replaced by the Insight Home or Insight Facility boxes. I am using a Gateway, 400bird has the Insight Home. I checked Ebay, they have new XW's, but asking $4,000... not a deal. Real Goods has it for $3,540.03 with free shipping.

Ebay does have an XW+, but it looks like the European model 7048E asking $1,500

 

[keepsake]

I got the newer Insight Home to perform the same with modbus and webpage as the 2-year old gateway version.
Now, grid codes is another crap shoot.
I can set them with the codes on both boxes but only system will only sell to grid with older gateway.
When I move my Xanbus to the Insight Home, my XW 6848 Pro drops selling to utility.
So if my system sees a gateway or no interface it will sell fine. When it sees Insight Home its like a broken dongle, selling stops.
Any clues would be great.

 

[400bird]

Did you hit every Schneider thread you could find to complain about this?

My insight allows me to sell to the grid just fine.
In fact, I'm selling about 5 kw through the XW to the grid right now.

So, I'd say it's either a setting or firmware issue. What is your firmware on the insight and inverter? If I remember correctly, there was a insight update that requires a certain XW firmware version. Both the XW and insight assume you are on compatible version x and newer.

 

[keepsake]

Problem still exists with the XW 6848 Pro unit. You can't just do a firmware update without a whole bunch of baggage.
The grid codes get compromised with every upgrade burn. And you can't fix with a local webpage reboot.
The only way to get grid codes TO WORK is the power cycle not just the AC on the unit, but disconnect ALL DC from it. Wait 30 seconds and make sure Insight Home is powered off too. Bring it up and then the grid code settings will take and work.
There has never been or isn't now any message or codes or logs to tell you what I just told you. When it don't sell you are blind sided and lose revenue.

 

[nokiasixteth]

The sw has a feature that the xw doesn't have look up smart charge on Schneider's website . Mine works fine I have to derate my solar edge when I want to use ac coupled and throw a couple interlocks . But any excess power does in fact charge the batteries when it is off-grid ac coupled .

 

[GXMnow]

While off grid, the XW-Pro also has no problem charging from the excess solar power. The trick is doing it while on grid. Smart Charge on the SW can do that, the XW line needs an external controller to do it.

 

[nokiasixteth]

Good info to know . I would rather as much of my excess power be used being they give me 1/4 of what I pay them for power they provide I will utilize my sw still when I am able to acquire the xw.

 

[ChrisG]

While off grid, the XW-Pro also has no problem charging from the excess solar power. The trick is doing it while on grid. Smart Charge on the SW can do that, the XW line needs an external controller to do it.

@GXMnow ,What external controller, a WattNode?