Sol-Ark 15K Rejected by PG&E in California

Nobodybusiness · Nov 3, 2022

robby said:
I prefer Grid Tied with no Net metering deal.
That way I can use them when I need them and not have them dictate anything to me.

If you can get away with that it’s good.

I tried that and even though I don’t sell back they knew something was connected and came out anyway.

I’m guessing the Sol-Ark pushed just enough back during a transition of loads or something for them to see it.

Nobodybusiness · Nov 3, 2022

Cheap 4-life said:
That is what I do. Grid tie zero export inverters that use batteries.
Only problem with that is they will still see small amounts of unavoidable backfeed. Then they want the system inspected. Then the same problems the OP is having.

Yup exactly what happened to me.

nc73 · Nov 3, 2022

Isn't grid-tied when you feed into the grid? I don't consider ac inputs as being grid-tied.

toms · Nov 3, 2022

Will Prowse said:
I really wonder if we will see that day. It does seem very possible.

Australia is well on the way. Utility companies are able to supply off-grid systems in lieu of poles and wires.

It’s only a matter of time before you won’t be able to get a certificate of occupancy without a contract with an energy retailer.

fafrd · Nov 3, 2022

Nobodybusiness said:
If you can get away with that it’s good.

I tried that and even though I don’t sell back they knew something was connected and came out anyway.

I’m guessing the Sol-Ark pushed just enough back during a transition of loads or something for them to see it.

Where are you based?

What happened after they came out and saw your system?

timselectric · Nov 3, 2022

nc73 said:
Isn't grid-tied when you feed into the grid? I don't consider ac inputs as being grid-tied.

Correct
Well..... can export, not necessarily are.

fafrd · Nov 3, 2022

nc73 said:
Isn't grid-tied when you feed into the grid? I don't consider ac inputs as being grid-tied.

Grid-tied is when your inverters are connected to the grid and need to sense a proper grid signal to do their thing (even when there is no import or export).

If you are truly ‘off-grid’ then your AC ‘island’ is not synced with he grid.

If your AC power is synced with the grid, the you are grid-tied.

Skypower · Nov 3, 2022

The biggest problem with Sol-ark is they probably didn’t know that the string of numbers they got from Pigs Goats & Elephants is an off shore account that needs funding.

Nobodybusiness · Nov 3, 2022

fafrd said:
Where are you based?

What happened after they came out and saw your system?

NC.

Basically guy came out and said I couldn’t have utility connected to inverters.

Told him I wasn’t selling back.

He didn’t care.

Told him he could take his meter with him if he wanted.

He huffed and puffed but left and I disconnected the grid input.

They can all kiss my ass.

timselectric · Nov 3, 2022

fafrd said:
Grid-tied is when your inverters are connected to the grid and need to sense a proper grid signal to do their thing (even when there is no import or export).

If you are truly ‘off-grid’ then your AC ‘island’ is not synced with he grid.

If your AC power is synced with the grid, the you are grid-tied.

Actually, it's all about the ability to export.
My offgrid inverter can synchronize with the AC input.
But it can't export.

Ampster · Nov 3, 2022

If I understand the letter it looks like they are referring to CA Rule 21. Is there some subtle wording in the Rule that SolArk, or at least the 15k, does not comply with?

Supervstech · Nov 3, 2022

Nobodybusiness said:
NC.

Basically guy came out and said I couldn’t have utility connected to inverters.

Told him I wasn’t selling back.

He didn’t care.

Told him he could take his meter with him if he wanted.

He huffed and puffed but left and I disconnected the grid input.

They can all kiss my ass.

Where in NC?
Duke energy has been amazing to work with on my setups...

Nobodybusiness · Nov 3, 2022

Supervstech said:
Where in NC?
Duke energy has been amazing to work with on my setups...

Energy United is a Co-Op

Their agreements are ridiculous.

Cheap 4-life · Nov 3, 2022

nc73 said:
Isn't grid-tied when you feed into the grid? I don't consider ac inputs as being grid-tied.

Many do not know that some grid tied inverters can use batteries and do zero export to store excess pv production instead of exporting the excess into the grid. Then that excess saved into the battery power can be used to keep the grid tie inverters running 24/7 and in my case fully supplying all of my homes loads 24/7

RV10flyer · Nov 3, 2022

So glad I am off grid in Kentucky. Adding another 13.3 kW right now. No inspections no BS.

Cheap 4-life · Nov 3, 2022

Nobodybusiness said:
NC.

Basically guy came out and said I couldn’t have utility connected to inverters.

Told him I wasn’t selling back.

He didn’t care.

Told him he could take his meter with him if he wanted.

He huffed and puffed but left and I disconnected the grid input.

They can all kiss my ass.

My understanding (from watching engineer775s videos regarding SolArk) is that a net metering agreement is not needed if using the SolArk for grid tied zero export. However an inspection might still be required in the area the installation is done. The inspection would be the same as any inspection for an offgrid inverter that has a grid connection for AC charging.. I’m not certain how all that works because the SolArk still has unavoidable very small amounts of backfeed into the grid

Nobodybusiness · Nov 3, 2022

Cheap 4-life said:
My understanding (from watching engineer775s videos regarding SolArk) is that a net metering agreement is not needed if using the SolArk for zero export. However an inspection might still be required in the area the installation is done. The inspection would be the same as any inspection for an offgrid inverter that has a grid connection for AC charging..

He didn’t ask for inspection anyway.
Just flat out told me It couldn’t be connected.

Nothing is being inspected here.
DIY batteries are not UL compliant.

I’m not back feeding or selling so frankly it none of their business.

The Utility is on a Transfer switch and the house is either on Solar or Utilities.

I had a line side tap to inverters and they had a cow about it.

I pulled the grid from the inverters.

nc73 · Nov 3, 2022

Nobodybusiness said:
He didn’t ask for inspection anyway.
Just flat out told me It couldn’t be connected.

Nothing is being inspected here.
DIY batteries are not UL compliant.

I’m not back feeding or selling so frankly it none of their business.

The Utility is on a Transfer switch and the house is either on Solar or Utilities.

I had a line side tap to inverters and they had a cow about it.

I pulled the grid from the inverters.

Yup you can always hook it up after it passed.

goldserve · Nov 3, 2022

I did a boatload of reading when I was installing the outback skybox and these technical docs and seminars are useful. https://www.outbackpower.com/resources/safety-and-compliance/regulatory-interconnection

Cheap 4-life · Nov 3, 2022

Engineer775 has also said several times in several different videos that the SolArks can do grid tie zero export and due to that are great if the electric company does not have a net metering option.

fafrd · Nov 3, 2022

Nobodybusiness said:
NC.

Basically guy came out and said I couldn’t have utility connected to inverters.

Told him I wasn’t selling back.

He didn’t care.

Told him he could take his meter with him if he wanted.

He huffed and puffed but left and I disconnected the grid input.

They can all kiss my ass.

Good for you. So you are using a generator when solar production is insufficient?

Nobodybusiness · Nov 3, 2022

nc73 said:
Yup you can always hook it up after it passed.

It’s fine the way it is and they won’t “Pass” it because it has DIY batteries.

The inspectors here know less than nothing.
It’s more of a shake down “pay me” than anything.
They are not really concerned with safety.
Found this out when I got Transfer switch “permitted “.

As long as I am not selling back they have no reason to inspect anything.

fafrd · Nov 3, 2022

timselectric said:
Actually, it's all about the ability to export.
My offgrid inverter can synchronize with the AC input.
But it can't export.

I’ve got inverters that require grid signal but do not export. They call themselves Grid Tie Inverters (GTIL).

Nobodybusiness · Nov 3, 2022

Cheap 4-life said:
Engineer775 has also said several times in several different videos that the SolArks can do grid tie zero export and due to that are great if the electric company does not have a net metering option.

I tried that. Didn’t work so he must be wrong.
They saw it somehow.

400bird · Nov 3, 2022

I've got to think this is way overblown and Sol-Ark didn't finish their paperwork or something. Or like someone said, didn't transfer enough money into the correct offshore accounts for the PGE C-suite.

Their other inverters appear to be approved, I doubt Sol-Ark dropped features on the 15k.

My Schneider XW6848 Pro is in the approved list and the only control PGE has is frequency shifting. Nothing more and nothing less.
And they'll only frequency shift in case of emergency. As far as I know they didn't even frequency shift when there was the huge heat wave and rolling power outage threats.

Sol-Ark 15K Rejected by PG&E in California

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