diy solar

diy solar

Does Solar Pay for Itself? Is it worth it?

Hedges said:
And the government is so good at weighing investment vs. return.
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If you only look at cost of operation vs ticketed income, then public transit will generally always come out looking like a loser.

But that's such a crap way to evaluate its value. It ignores improvements in many externalities.

Every person using public transit is not sitting in a car clogging up the roads even more. Fewer road deaths and injuries, better health outcomes from less pollution etc. More efficient cities and towns, better access to transportation for all, especially those who are unable to drive.

That's not to say one should accept poor management of such systems or poor choices in their financing or the type of transit put in place (monorails anyone?), but their value is far greater than the ticketed fare income alone would suggest.

Just have a look at sports stadiums in the US vs say elsewhere in the world. The US stadium is typically surrounded by a massive area of car parking far larger than the stadium are itself. It's insane when all those people could be moved far more efficiently via public transit.
 
Spunky said:
I like the choice too. But it won't be a choice soon (2023], then how long before "the war on carbon" starts.
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Sure it will....the used and bartering networks will continue to offer incandescent options for those who may want them. :)
Spunky said:
All along, the overloading of the grid is grow-ops (cannabis) in Michigan. HID grow lights and A/C to cool them down plus ventilation.

Then charge peek time usage and preach LEDs to us, because the grid can't meet demand. I'd bet like my own household, residential usage is down until EVs and electric heat has to be used.
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I commend you for going above and beyond by lowering your own carbon footprint by implementing your own DIY solar solution.
The rogue citizens who push legislation on everyone to use renewables are the ones who choose not to live by example. :-(
They fail to walk one's talk when it comes to imposing their ideas on all Americans.
 
KITROBASKIN said:
cost of monthly power bills (do people include that in their payback calculations?)
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Absolutely.

There are a number of variables in play when doing the calculations but frankly it's no more complicated than doing a basic cash flow analysis between two scenarios - with and without solar PV.

There are some less tangible factors as well. For instance, along with solar PV for us came far better metering data. Armed with much better data on consumption I have been able to zero in on what other actions I can take which make financial and environmental sense.

This includes assessment of energy efficiency options, shifting of loads to different times of day, optimising our choice of retail electricity plan.

Payback period however can be a little misleading when assessing the value of a system. It's but one measure but it can also lead to perverse outcomes if that's your only measure of system value.

For example, sensible action which results in reducing energy consumption lengthens the payback of our solar PV. But such actions also result in reducing our bills further and the combined effect is far more worthwhile than concern for pushing out solar PV payback.

Conversely I can artificially reduce my solar PV payback period - all I have to do is consume more energy, e.g. I could put the aircon system on when it is not needed. But that's not a rational (nor environmentally sensible) choice. Or I could choose a more expensive retail plan. My payback period on solar PV would reduce but my bills would be higher, again hardly a rational choice.

Based on our consumption and retail plan when we started with solar PV, payback period would be 4 years. But since we have done many other things to reduce our consumption and bills, payback period has pushed out closer to 5 years.
 
As has been mentioned before, calculating a ROI is a little fuzzy because you have to take in to account the value of personal security if your power supply isn't totally dependent on a public utility (for profit corporation) and all that goes along with that dependency. They can and will charge the maximum they can get away with. If they decide to ration power or are ordered by an increasingly authoritarian government to turn off the supply pursuant to the days popular political whims, you have your own supply. Of course even that's no guarantee, just ask anyone who decided to distill their own alcohol during prohibition how that worked out. But at least with your own power system, you have a fighting chance.
 
In my opinion, it's only fuzzy because people make it that way.
ROI is return on investment.
You don't invest piece of mind or self reliance.
These are added perks, that are absolutely a definite benefit. But not part of the investment, so can't be calculated into the return. However, sweat equity (diy) can reduce your investment. Which speeds up the return.
 
It's fair to say some people only consider a positive return on investment if they make or save money, while others are happy with their investment returning its intended benefit. Someone who owns/operates a business is more inclined to break it down to profit and loss than the more common homeowner...and that's fine. I fall in to the latter group and will be the first to admit the money I've spent on an alternative power source as well as more efficient appliances will never be profitable.
 
Including independence on return is only fuzzy if one does not clearly value it ☺️

Sun has been much more reliable for me than any human operated power company. Fewer rate hikes, too ?

I value my peace of mind highly. Also need to refrigerate some medicine that spoils in 24hr. So that does factor into things.

May every solar builder get what they want out of their system ?
 
While I agree with both perspectives.
There are values that can't be monetized.
But,
The question of this thread is "does it pay for itself ".
And the answer is finally, yes.
Because it has become very affordable.
 
Thing is, once solar pays for itself, it keeps on giving. Sometimes for a long time.
Yes battery technology can easily be said to be more expensive than grid-dependence, but it is our economic investment that is helping to bring distributed electrical storage costs down.
Plus it is fun for some of us; an excellent hobby as has been mentioned.
 
Brett V said:
It's fair to say some people only consider a positive return on investment if they make or save money, while others are happy with their investment returning its intended benefit. Someone who owns/operates a business is more inclined to break it down to profit and loss than the more common homeowner...and that's fine. I fall in to the latter group and will be the first to admit the money I've spent on an alternative power source as well as more efficient appliances will never be profitable.
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just wait untill you start paying USD 1.10/KWH like we do here
suddenly things chance, rapidly
 
ArthurEld said:
My batteries are only for when the grid goes down. So far after 2 years the grid went down for 2 hours.
I have over $10,000 invested in batteries. That's $5000 per hour. It worked and is worth it.
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We're in a rural area and we lose power a number of times each year due to storms and trees down. So this will definitely increase our comfort level.
 
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