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Can Solar & Wind Fix Everything (e.g., Climate Change) with a battery break-through?

svetz said:
"The scientific community wants you to believe your all going to die from climate change." ROFL... That's what the hysterics tell you the scientists are saying. It's no different than deniers telling you scientists are lying because they can't see the changes or do and are trying to wish it away.

What the Science Says
No one seems to want to actually listen to scientists. The science says global warming is real, and that causes climate change which is the disruption of long stable weather patterns. That affects humans because we built up and live areas that had favorable weather patterns. The science says what the earth looked like before at different temperatures (e.g., crocodiles above the arctic circle at +4°C). The science says that by controlling the GHG levels in the atmosphere we can manipulate the average temperature. The science says we can succeed. It doesn't say we're all going to die. The science does warn of extreme catastrophe if the temperature gets too high or to low (e.g., the past has multiple mass extinction events), but we're a long long long way from that and I suspect we could halt extremes if it came to it.

$10 Trillion over 30 Years
People are worried about the $10 trillion cost spread out over decades ... per person over time it's not that much.

~$6 Trillion back per Year
Globally, the oil subsidies cost $5.9 trillion per year (ref). After we electrify, we can save that much per year. Yes, two years of savings pays for 30 years of spending. And that's money we'll never need to spend again.

You were spending most of the $10 Trillion Anyway
That's not even "extra" cash. Much of it is a replacement for old things that need to be replaced (e.g., 50-year coal-fired power plants that are ready to be retired, your car) or repaired (e.g., the grid).

Catch-22
Despite their worry, it isn't a priority for them. Like putting off a trip to the dentist to take care of a cavity, they want to mess around and deal with the day-to-day pain (e.g., paying more to clean up after weather disasters, higher food prices, migration) until they need a root canal. Delaying enables their worst fears, that it will be harder and more expensive to resolve.
Click to expand...
Funny how different groups have different data. Thats a major problem. Here is a brookings institute reference on global fossil fuel subsidies that contradicts your numbers. https://www.brookings.edu/research/...states-can-restart-international-cooperation/
 
Sanwizard said:
Funny how different groups have different data....
Click to expand...

It is! You have to dig in to understand what you're reading. that's for sure. From the reference Bookings provided, their number only includes direct payments from G20 countries:

...G20 governments provided $584 billion annually (2017–2019 average) via direct budgetary transfers...
Click to expand...

Also funny how they rounded $584 down to $500.

So, the Bookings number only accounts for a handful of countries and doesn't include non-cash subsidies such as free land usage or tax breaks. The reference I used tried to analyze the value of all subsidies/freebies. Sure, take it with a grain of salt, as trying to get all the bits and bobs probably has a higher margin of error. But obviously, the total amount is going to be far higher than the Bookings number.

The point in the prior post is still valid too. It's the equivalent of a one-time $10 investment to get back $0.58 forevermore with the Bookings number. Best of all, you were going to spend that $10 on the similar stuff anyway...it's just the other investment was costing you an extra $0.58 forevermore. There is an argument that the subsidies won't really go away, they'll just shift to renewables, so no real actual savings. But, renewables won't need exploration, pipelines, emission controls, and probably lot's of other things that fossil fuel currently needs.
 
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This is the kind of stuff that "the science" does... they make up alarmist BS, and then they quietly ignore facts that no longer follow their narrative...

dailysceptic.org

Just 3% of Australians Are Aware That the Great Barrier Reef is at a Record High, Survey Finds – The Daily Sceptic

Only 3% of Australians know that the Great Barrier Reef is at a record high following two years of record growth, a survey has found – a reflection of how well the media and scientists keep the truth hidden.
dailysceptic.org dailysceptic.org
 
aenyc said:
This is the kind of stuff that "the science" does... they make up alarmist BS, and then they quietly ignore facts that no longer follow their narrative...

dailysceptic.org

Just 3% of Australians Are Aware That the Great Barrier Reef is at a Record High, Survey Finds – The Daily Sceptic

Only 3% of Australians know that the Great Barrier Reef is at a record high following two years of record growth, a survey has found – a reflection of how well the media and scientists keep the truth hidden.
dailysceptic.org dailysceptic.org
Click to expand...

Dude, you are so full of $hit it's not even funny. Seriously.. What the Actual F*^k is wrong with you?

Long-Term Monitoring Program
Annual Summary Report of Coral Reef Condition 2021/22​

Continued coral recovery leads to 36-year highs across
two-thirds of the Great Barrier Reef​



Stop doing whatever drugs you are on.
 
svetz said:
It is! You have to dig in to understand what you're reading. that's for sure. From the reference Bookings provided, their number only includes direct payments from G20 countries:



Also funny how they rounded $584 down to $500.

So, the Bookings number only accounts for a handful of countries and doesn't include non-cash subsidies such as free land usage or tax breaks. The reference I used tried to analyze the value of all subsidies/freebies. Sure, take it with a grain of salt, as trying to get all the bits and bobs probably has a higher margin of error. But obviously, the total amount is going to be far higher than the Bookings number.

The point in the prior post is still valid too. It's the equivalent of a one-time $10 investment to get back $0.58 forevermore with the Bookings number. Best of all, you were going to spend that $10 on the similar stuff anyway...it's just the other investment was costing you an extra $0.58 forevermore. There is an argument that the subsidies won't really go away, they'll just shift to renewables, so no real actual savings. But, renewables won't need exploration, pipelines, emission controls, and probably lot's of other things that fossil fuel currently needs.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but if the governments got out of the way, and just let the private sector do its thing, capitalism will balance out the winners and losers based on risk/reward/value. There would be no need for subsidies.
I find it interesting that even with lots of government subsidies for solar, the cost of good solar panels has gone way higer over the past two years, which I attribute to US inflation as the dollar is devalued.
USD to CHF was 98 cents in 2020, its now 88 cents, and still dropping.
1000 Large Rifle Primers cost me less than $50 shipped in 2017. The same box is going for $158 today.
So maybe your 10 trillion is actually 11 trillion in todays dollars, but to what end? A degree of celcius?

Nah, I will take the bad weather and cope. But to come up with funds, I would have no problem with eliminating ALL the government waste, shrink the government by 80%, get rid of most of the government handouts, make the tax rate 10% across the board, instill term limits, enforce same day in person voting with mandatory ID, pull back all the overseas troops, kill the current US budget process of spend it or lose it, and deport all the socialists who dont like the US as founded or capitalism. An stop millions of illegal border crossings by using the military to protect OUR border, not Ukraines.
 
Sanwizard said:
... but to what end? A degree of celcius?
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We're already over a degree and it's rising. That's the problem with not stopping, it just keeps going up and the problems become more expensive. So, if we have to stop anyway, why not stop early so there are fewer problems overall and it costs us the least amount?
 

Geothermal​


What might have a lower LCOE than solar and wind, is 100% reliable, needs no ESS, isn't affected by the weather, and can be turned up/down as fast as a gas turbine? And possibly might emit more CO2 than a gas turbine?

It depends on who's LCOE you use, Lazard has it on par with solar and wind.

Two views... optimistic and realistic...
 
aenyc said:
People are fed up with this nonsense
Click to expand...
They sure are! Just not the way you're imagining...
Annotation-2020-04-03-163646.png
 
svetz said:

They sure are! Just not the way you're imagining...
Annotation-2020-04-03-163646.png
Click to expand...
That also kinda highlights the deep chasm and thought patterns between those who think BLM and Antifa are nice folks, and those who think they are Marxist terror groups.
Also those who think Biden is doing a good job, and those who think he is a disaster.
It amazes me how divided the media and government has divided the people of this country, where we obviously have a LOT in common. We are all mostly a very caring people, but politics and cia type psyops have destroyed the e pluribus unum that was the hallmark of this once God fearing country.
 
Sanwizard said:
That also kinda highlights the deep chasm and thought patterns between those who think BLM and Antifa are nice folks, and those who think they are Marxist terror groups.
Also those who think Biden is doing a good job, and those who think he is a disaster.
It amazes me how divided the media and government has divided the people of this country, where we obviously have a LOT in common. We are all mostly a very caring people, but politics and cia type psyops have destroyed the e pluribus unum that was the hallmark of this once God fearing country.
Click to expand...

its by design. They want us to fight each other while they rob us dry, both financially and libertywise.
But anyone capable of critical thought can now see that with every manufactured crisis (terrorism (patriot act), covid, climate change) they are just going after us giving more control mechanisms to themselves while taking away your liberty and independence piece by piece. The whole agenda is complete monopolization of Earth's resources by a small group of people (call them oligarchs, globalists, banksters, the name does not matter, what matters is that a very small but very influential group (via money)). They want to own it all, while you are the forever renter, always dependent on them for everything, and thus forced to obey their psychopathic desires.

Our Leaders Are Psychopaths | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com www.corbettreport.com
 
svetz said:
Hmmm, tough call as to which is baloney ... let's see... a poll by the Pew research center or one from IPSOS (a French marketing company).
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Typical libby progressive responce! You are hilarious.
"all your dissenting sources are bad, and my "fact checkers" are the only good ones.
Safe and effective, i tell you. I actually thought you are capable of some critical thought for a bit.

"Perhaps the most surprising statistic from the Energy Policy Institute at the University of Chicago (EPIC) survey is that 70% of Americans are unwilling to spend more than $2.50 a week to combat climate change. Nearly four in 10 Americans said they were unwilling to pay a couple of dimes. Despite decades of relentless green doomsday agitprop designed to corral populations into living under a collectivist Net Zero-ordered society, it appears that the vast majority of Americans are unwilling to pay even the chump change in their back pockets to stop the climate changing.

Surveys such as EPIC and IPSOS speak to the fundamental flaw in the ‘settled’ science surrounding the suggestion that humans burning fossil fuel are causing the climate to breakdown. The hypothesis is unproven – not a single science paper provides conclusive proof. Natural causes and the proposition that carbon dioxide becomes ‘saturated’ beyond certain atmospheric levels are more convincing explanations for scientific observations. Fears that mainstream climate science is heavily corrupted by faulty data, pseudoscientific modelling and outright political cherry-picking are becoming more widespread."
 
aenyc said:
..."all your dissenting sources are bad, and my "fact checkers" are the only good ones...
Click to expand...
I didn't state that, although I can see why you might have assumed it since you probably know that PEW is a nonpartisan American think tank and might know more about Americans than a paid-for marketing firm in France.

aenyc said:
"Perhaps the most surprising statistic from the Energy Policy Institute at the University of Chicago (EPIC) survey is that 70% of Americans are unwilling to spend more than $2.50 a week to combat climate change.
Click to expand...
I wonder what's up with that? It would be interesting to dig into it if I can find some time.
 
aenyc said:
its by design. They want us to fight each other while they rob us dry, both financially and libertywise.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty smart move by them.. and it seems to be working. They've got almost half the country divided into hardcore democrats and hardcore republicans, and neither will change their vote.

aenyc said:
But anyone capable of critical thought can now see that with every manufactured crisis (terrorism (patriot act), covid, climate change) they are just going after us giving more control mechanisms to themselves while taking away your liberty and independence piece by piece. The whole agenda is complete monopolization of Earth's resources by a small group of people (call them oligarchs, globalists, banksters, the name does not matter, what matters is that a very small but very influential group (via money)). They want to own it all, while you are the forever renter, always dependent on them for everything, and thus forced to obey their psychopathic desires.
Click to expand...
I believe the concept is called "Capitalism" Didn't you ever play Monopoly when you were a child? What happens when that game is played long enough?

What rule or law, or at what point, do you suggest that the government step in and take control or confiscate a corporation's money or resources because they've grown too big?
 
Again, the entire narrative is for control over everyone.
The entire problem has been made up, and now that Covid "crisis" has run its course, "climate change" is the next "crisis" they have invented, as predicted by many in the alternative media way back in 2005.

But, luckily, more and more people are realizing that it is BS. If there was one thing good about covid shenanigans, is that a lot of people realized that we have been lied to and gaslighted for generations.

In this sense it is very similar to USSR, where every commoner knew that the entire political system exists for a single purpose - to enrich itlsef at the cost of the populace.

This is not going to be a suprise to anyone paying attention

Our Leaders Are Psychopaths | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com www.corbettreport.com
 
aenyc said:
Again, the entire narrative is for control over everyone.
Click to expand...
You don't think everyone knows that? That's been the same story since we monkeys climbed down out of the trees.. It's not a secret.

aenyc said:
The entire problem has been made up, and now that Covid "crisis" has run its course, "climate change" is the next "crisis" they have invented, as predicted by many in the alternative media way back in 2005.
Click to expand...
Climate change isn't "the next crisis".. They've been warning about man made climate change for 50 years. You can't bring up trillions of tons of carbon, release it into the atmosphere, and expect the climate to NOT change. For crying out loud.

Actually, to be specific about it, the climate is always changing.. the problem isn't climate change, its the speed at which we are causing the change. Animal and plant life doesn't have time to adjust.

aenyc said:
But, luckily, more and more people are realizing that it is BS.
Click to expand...
No.. just the opposite actually.

aenyc said:
If there was one thing good about covid shenanigans, is that a lot of people realized that we have been lied to and gaslighted for generations.
Click to expand...
I can understand how the uneducated among us might feel that way. When one doesn't have the proper education in a subject, even telling them the truth might be interpreted as a lie.

aenyc said:
In this sense it is very similar to USSR, where every commoner knew that the entire political system exists for a single purpose - to enrich itlsef at the cost of the populace.
Click to expand...
LOL.. Not even close.

aenyc said:
This is not going to be a suprise to anyone paying attention

Our Leaders Are Psychopaths | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com www.corbettreport.com
Click to expand...
You can't pay attention to something you know nothing about. The first step is to get the proper education, then you can "pay attention" to what they are saying.
 

Religions & Climate Change​

Religion has been mentioned a few times in the thread so thought I'd look at what stance the major religions took. Not all religions have a single spokesperson, so this might not be 100% accurate for your sect.

Catholicism​

“The phenomenon of climate change has become an emergency that no longer remains at the margins of society. Instead, it has assumed a central place, reshaping not only industrial and agricultural systems but also adversely affecting the global human family, especially the poor and those living on the economic peripheries of our world.” -- Pope Francis
Click to expand...

Islamic​

The Islamic Climate Change Declaration iterates a call to reject human greed for natural resources, have respect for “perfect equilibrium” of nature, and focused on the need for recognition of the “moral obligation” towards conservation ref
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Judaism​

Humankind has a solemn obligation to improve the world for future generations. Addressing climate change requires us to learn how to live within the ecological limits of the earth so that we will not compromise the ecological or economic security of those who come after us. Genesis 2:15 emphasizes our responsibility to protect the integrity of the environment so that its diverse species, including humans, can thrive: "The human being was placed in the Garden of Eden to till it and to tend it." Similarly, Jewish tradition teaches us that human domain over nature does not include a license to abuse the environment. The Talmudic concept bal tashchit, "do not destroy," was developed by the rabbis into a universal doctrine that dramatically asserted God’s ownership of the land. Psalm 24 notes, "The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof." From this basic concept it follows that any act of destruction is an offense against the property of God. ref
Click to expand...

Buddhism​

The Dalai Lama has appealed to world leaders to take urgent action against climate change, warning of ecological destruction affecting the lives of billions and ruining the planet, including his birth country, Tibet. As a call to action he has brought out a new book declaring that if Buddha returned to this world, “Buddha would be green”. . ref
Click to expand...

Hinduism​

Our beloved Earth, so touchingly looked upon as the Universal Mother, has nurtured mankind through millions of years of growth and evolution. Now centuries of rapacious exploitation of the planet have caught up with us, and a radical change in our relationship with nature is no longer an option. It is a matter of survival. We cannot continue to destroy nature without also destroying ourselves. The dire problems besetting our world—war, disease, poverty and hunger—will all be magnified many fold by the predicted impacts of climate change. ref
Click to expand...
 
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