1997 Isuzu NPR build
- Thread starter noenegdod
- Start date
Just a paint job. I have to take it apart once more to cut the ends of the HSS flush with the end of the box, shorten the threaded rods by ~ what is sticking out and going to bore out the large dia holes on the side with out the springs so that if I need to change the side the springs are on I can just switch them with out taking it apart again. Ill paint it then.
yabert
Solar Enthusiast
Nice build. About your coil spring, replace it with polyurethane bushing or wave washer or disc spring will save you a good amount of space.
Still, if I have to do similar battery, I would not bother with the springs compression for the cells. Especially considering the compression media is ''soft'' wood.
Cells need to be compressed, but will not swell a lot considering your peak load is small (less than 1C, or if you prefer, less than 1120A)
About fuse. Why parallel fuse? Do you know ANN fuse?
Still, if I have to do similar battery, I would not bother with the springs compression for the cells. Especially considering the compression media is ''soft'' wood.
Cells need to be compressed, but will not swell a lot considering your peak load is small (less than 1C, or if you prefer, less than 1120A)
About fuse. Why parallel fuse? Do you know ANN fuse?
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Thank you for the suggestions but saving space comes at the cost of consistent pressure. If I needed to save any space, Id use shorter springs.
Im using springs in this simply to prevent over compressing the cells. My cells will probably calendar age out before they cycle out so this has nothing to do with extending life. Im using springs in this simply to prevent over compressing the cells and shortening their life while keeping them secure in the truck where I want them. Whats wring with using "soft" wood?
ANN fuses dont have the required current interrupt capacity and I need 800A to satisfy the inrush current for the winch motor so parallel 400A T class fuses fit the bill.
yabert
Solar Enthusiast
I mean wood is a really soft/brittle material compare to, let say, a steel plate with the same thickness.
To me, it's clear that if you overcharge a single cell to 5V by example, the wood will not be enough to maintain the cell swell.
But seriously, you can maintain the cells only with thread rod without overcompressing the cells. This type of cells are not weak.
What?
Interrupting Rating of 2700A, can take 1200A for 0.2 second and over 1000A for 10 seconds to 1 minute. I bet you have some serious load.
I mean wood is a really soft/brittle material compare to, let say, a steel plate with the same thickness.
To me, it's clear that if you overcharge a single cell to 5V by example, the wood will not be enough to maintain the cell swell.
But seriously, you can maintain the cells only with thread rod without overcompressing the cells. This type of cells are not weak.
What?
Interrupting Rating of 2700A, can take 1200A for 0.2 second and over 1000A for 10 seconds to 1 minute. I bet you have some serious load.
yabert, your welcome to to your opinion but I dont agree with anything in the first paragraph. Edit: with the exception of the steel plate, and anyone who uses 3/4" steel plate in the same application is a moron.
Do a search on this forum or anywhere else regarding t class vs anl or ann fuses.
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yabert
Solar Enthusiast
I can understand. There is a lot of information in my head around designing, build battery pack and play/see OEM electric vehicles battery pack as I do this since 2008. All this isn't easy to share in few line in a forum discussion.
You seem to have done your homework before start the build of your battery, so no problem.
My message was simple related to my design philosophy who is often Keep It Simple Stupid.
A coil spring to apply XX load on the cells is nice, but a thread rod torque at X lbs-ft will give the exact same XX load.
The XX load can vary with thread rod as they are way more rigide than a coil spring, but if your application imply only peak load below 1C, there is no real reason to design with coil spring... except if you are more confortable with it. As you seem to are.
Anyway, know that if you open an OEM battery pack build with modules or pouch cells, there is no coil spring. The OEM sometime use a thin foam between cells to act as a spring (GM Volt in mind), but many OEM compress modules without any spring (Nissan leaf, Ford Energy, GM Bolt, Renault Zoe, etc.).
Of course, they limit over compression with some structurale components.
Can't wait to see more of your build. Keep us in touch.
Thank you for not turning this into a dick measuring contest
Yes, from an oem perspective with their resources, coil springs are not used because they have thrown hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions testing out one aspect of what they are building and they have it figured out for their application. No one here has that luxury. What we are doing here is a 1 off that needs to work. Period. What I have done will work. Is it the most elegant? Hell no. Is it the most efficient use of space? F&%k no. But it will work work its intended purpose with no ill effects to the cells.
What?
Interrupting Rating of 2700A, can take 1200A for 0.2 second and over 1000A for 10 seconds to 1 minute. I bet you have some serious load.
Interrupt Rating != Fuse Rating. Interrupt Rating has to do with the ability to extinguish any arc that sets up under a short-circuit condition and needs to match or exceed the available short circuit current - which is extremely high for these LiFePO4 cells.
yabert
Solar Enthusiast
Ok. But those cells have an internal resistance of 0.12mΩ. 4 in parallel give 0.030mΩ or 0.00003 ohm.
So, short circuit current capability is monstrous.
I'm so sad to learn tonight that a high amps 12V system can't use a cheap 20$ fuse and need a 200$ fuse ?
I just realize that the A30QS fuse I use in one of my EV is also rate for DC Interrupting Rating: 100,000 AIC like the T class fuse.
Because those fuse are cheaper (45$ for the 800A), maybe it can be a good choice for noenegdod.
I have all my fuses. The two 400A for the parallel DC circuit for the winch and smaller loads as well as a 400A for the 3000watt multiplus
Been busy with the mechanical stuff but back on the electrical for a bit now.
The original plan was to have 2 completely separate electrical systems with the exception of the "house battery" being charged with a 30a dc-dc charger.
The loads for the vehicle system would be all the usual suspects and same for the house battery with the exception of the winches. The winches would be powered by the house battery.
Please read carefully as this is a bit unorthodox but I think a perfectly workable solution to my situation but am looking for flaws/concerns:
I am now thinking of kind of blending everything together. I am relocating the vehicle battery to the rear of the vehicle out of necessity, It will be under the camper, basically right under the house battery.
The power to the winch travels from the house battery, through 2 victron BP220 (which only permit current flow in one direction) through the floor of the camper to a busbar. On this busbar the rear winch is connected directly and a 4/0 cable is connected that goes to the front of the vehicle (where the front winch and vehicle battery cable is connected). Also connected (to the rear busbar) is a very small Odyssey AGM vehicle battery https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm16l-battery-pc680/
Back inside the camper, after the BP220s , The DC-DC is connected, picking up power from the charging system (when engine running) and controlling the charging of the house battery. The vehicle charging system is isolated from the lithium battery because the BP220 will not allow current to travel back through them and the DC-DC controls current and only charges when the interlocks are satisfied.
On the busbars at the rear a 4/0 + and - heading up to the front of the vehicle to the proximity of the front winch where they terminate on busbars where the winch, and the vehicle battery cables attach.
Does this make sense?
It saves me running separate cable from vehicle battery up to starter and house battery to front winch as well as having to punch a 2nd hole in the camper to run power from the vehicle system to the DC-DC to charge the house battery. It also makes it so that I can have a much smaller AGM that doesnt really need to be able to actually be able to start the truck (although it can, I have used them before, you just dont get a third chance) The AGM probably isnt really needed, it just feels better to have it there for some reason, possibly for in the circumstances when it is very cold and the BMS has stopped charging of the house battery it gives the alternator something to do? IDK, it just feels better.
Let me know what you think!
The original plan was to have 2 completely separate electrical systems with the exception of the "house battery" being charged with a 30a dc-dc charger.
The loads for the vehicle system would be all the usual suspects and same for the house battery with the exception of the winches. The winches would be powered by the house battery.
Please read carefully as this is a bit unorthodox but I think a perfectly workable solution to my situation but am looking for flaws/concerns:
I am now thinking of kind of blending everything together. I am relocating the vehicle battery to the rear of the vehicle out of necessity, It will be under the camper, basically right under the house battery.
The power to the winch travels from the house battery, through 2 victron BP220 (which only permit current flow in one direction) through the floor of the camper to a busbar. On this busbar the rear winch is connected directly and a 4/0 cable is connected that goes to the front of the vehicle (where the front winch and vehicle battery cable is connected). Also connected (to the rear busbar) is a very small Odyssey AGM vehicle battery https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm16l-battery-pc680/
Back inside the camper, after the BP220s , The DC-DC is connected, picking up power from the charging system (when engine running) and controlling the charging of the house battery. The vehicle charging system is isolated from the lithium battery because the BP220 will not allow current to travel back through them and the DC-DC controls current and only charges when the interlocks are satisfied.
On the busbars at the rear a 4/0 + and - heading up to the front of the vehicle to the proximity of the front winch where they terminate on busbars where the winch, and the vehicle battery cables attach.
Does this make sense?
It saves me running separate cable from vehicle battery up to starter and house battery to front winch as well as having to punch a 2nd hole in the camper to run power from the vehicle system to the DC-DC to charge the house battery. It also makes it so that I can have a much smaller AGM that doesnt really need to be able to actually be able to start the truck (although it can, I have used them before, you just dont get a third chance) The AGM probably isnt really needed, it just feels better to have it there for some reason, possibly for in the circumstances when it is very cold and the BMS has stopped charging of the house battery it gives the alternator something to do? IDK, it just feels better.
Let me know what you think!
@noenegdod - Pure-lead and LFP together for a project? Dude, you've got my heart beating fast, because that was my chemical gateway way back when..
So I get your vibe and I won't go totally propeller-head. You spent great money on a great pure-lead agm (for your feel-good purpose), so please be sure to charge it at least once on an external charger before placing it into service. I'm sure you probably have already. Keep an eye on the CV's for both absorb and float. Temp-comp it if you can.
Here is the Odyssey technical manual. I keep it under my pillow.
Of course I'd recommend the Odyssey OBC-6 or higher for an external charger. Not because of the same name-brand status, but because they do it RIGHT!
Seems silly of me to spend this much thought on a reply for your lil' agm, but I can't help it.
Nice work so far - keep us posted on the project!!
So I get your vibe and I won't go totally propeller-head. You spent great money on a great pure-lead agm (for your feel-good purpose), so please be sure to charge it at least once on an external charger before placing it into service. I'm sure you probably have already. Keep an eye on the CV's for both absorb and float. Temp-comp it if you can.
Here is the Odyssey technical manual. I keep it under my pillow.
Of course I'd recommend the Odyssey OBC-6 or higher for an external charger. Not because of the same name-brand status, but because they do it RIGHT!
Seems silly of me to spend this much thought on a reply for your lil' agm, but I can't help it.
Nice work so far - keep us posted on the project!!
hardtop
New Member
Good looking truck. I too run a Yamaha, but I have the 2200. 4,400 hours on it and no problems. I'm wondering if the Yamaha 1000 would output enough for your charger. I don't see how many amps it needs. Any idea?
Thanks for the reply!,@noenegdod - Pure-lead and LFP together for a project? Dude, you've got my heart beating fast, because that was my chemical gateway way back when..
So I get your vibe and I won't go totally propeller-head. You spent great money on a great pure-lead agm (for your feel-good purpose), so please be sure to charge it at least once on an external charger before placing it into service. I'm sure you probably have already. Keep an eye on the CV's for both absorb and float. Temp-comp it if you can.
Here is the Odyssey technical manual. I keep it under my pillow.
Of course I'd recommend the Odyssey OBC-6 or higher for an external charger. Not because of the same name-brand status, but because they do it RIGHT!
Seems silly of me to spend this much thought on a reply for your lil' agm, but I can't help it.
Nice work so far - keep us posted on the project!!
I havent actually bought the battery for this truck yet but I have had 4 or 5 of this particular model in race cars and I have put Odysseys in every vehicle I have owned. They are a great battery. I have failed to buy an odyssey battery charger though ?.
On the multiplus you can limit the 120v input in steps from 50 amps down to 7.5 amps which is 900 watts and the max continuous output for the 1000 watt gen.
I am rethinking the 1000 watt gen though. A 2000watt is only 17 lbs heavier (29 vs 46) and hardly any bigger. I currently have an ef2400 which is 75lbs and twice the size. I think I may go with the 2000 watt. Another reason to go with this is at 15 amps input current the multiplus will still function in the "generator assist" mode but when you drop it down to 7.5 amps input current it looses that functionality and instead of assisting the generator, it behaves like a separate inverter and charger.
Edit: Ill have to look at a 2200, the 2000 max continuous is only 13.5 amps
hardtop
New Member
I have the ef2000isv2 as well. I had about 10k hours on it before the controller went out on warranty last year. I was about 1 month away from the end of the warranty. It is still in the shop from last October. They haven't called me and I'm in no hurry to drive 10hrs to pick it up :D
The ef2000 isv2 is 13 amps max. I originally was looking for the ef2400 that you have now. I think they are made in Japan, but I couldn't find any in stock within hundreds of miles.
The ef2200 can supply 15 amps. In the winter at 6k' elevation I can run a 750w space heater and my computer gear with the 2200 and that wouldn't happen with the ef2000isv2. The ef2200 has a hour meter on it which is useful for maintenance. It also has a 12v cigarette lighter output at 3 amps. That is good enough for a 12v refer. The ef2000isv2 has 12v too, but it is battery charging only and you can't use both 12v and 120v at the same time or it will overheat the stator and break.
I'd keep the ef2400 and use a dolly if it is too heavy. You may want more power in the future. If not, go with the ef2200 as it is a newer design and not too heavy to walk around with it (but at the limit). You can set stuff on top of it like an aux fuel supply or a table because of the handle design.
No sweat. Not to derail the focus of the thread, but what Enersys says is true about using a minimum of C/4 current if deeply discharged to recover. It's not just a recovery time thing, pure-leads simply don't like to be tickled to death with a feather. If they are healthy, don't be afraid to put the hammer down up to 1C if need be (but HIGHLY accurate voltage regulated!)
Used a version of tppl called Hawker prismatics for motive power way back when. Even built up some kick-ass little versions out of individual Cyclon cells too.
Ok, enough of that - back to our regularly scheduled thread topic!
From what I had read a long time ago off the Odyssey website, they encouraged providing as much current as they could take at 14.XXX volts, just dont exceed the recommended voltage under any circumstances.
Carrying the 2400 around isnt an issue, the main issue is Im 5'6" and lifting it 5' to get it in the back of the truck is a pretty good grunt, that and the size. I am most likely going to trade it for a 2200 so I can get the 15 amps. I had originally bought it to run AC on a small travel trailer but that is no longer required.
