6000XP Cooling Fan Observations

[SunBandit]

Only a few days in and all is going well with one rather noticeable exception. This thing is not nearly as quiet as I was expecting given what I've read online and seen on Youtube. I can only imagine what the 6500EX is like if the 6000XP is the quiet one!

I know most people are putting these in their basement / garage or at least a room they can close off. I don't have a basement and my inverter is sitting in my back hallway off the kitchen. I put it here assuming it would occasionally spool up fans to high speed under heavy loads but would most often be at or near the <58dB advertised. I don't have a dB meter, only an iPhone app, but I am seeing ~65dB to 70dB @ 3ft when the inverter is doing anything over 1kW from PV. It's loud enough to hear two rooms away.

I did some experiments to see if I could influence the fan output in any way and made some observations:

1. The top two fans seem to relate to the two legs of 120V output. These are also fan #1 and fan #2 in the settings.This is neither obvious nor documented as far as I can tell. I also noticed the max fan speed % setting is only active when the corresponding fan is set to "new slope". Also not clear or intuitive from the UI or the manual.
2. There are no settings for the third fan which appears to have its PWM set exclusively according to PV load. It seems to only have three (maybe four) speeds. Under 1kW (across both MPPTs), it's around the 58dB advertised. Somewhere between 1kW and 2kW, it goes to a medium setting, probably 62dB-65dB, and then anything above 3kW, it is like a screaming hair dryer somewhere >65dB. Considering this inverter can take in up to 8kW of MPPT, that's a lot of noise at less than half the rated input.
3. Fan speed doesn't seem to be impacted by temperature. I checked the temp near the fans (or more precisely the cooling surfaces just inside near the exhaust fans) several times using a laser thermometer. Maximum temperature I got was 95F with 5kW MPPT and 4kW load at an ambient room temp of 75. Pretty cool. I then ran a duct from the A/C right into the intake and set the house to cool to 69F. With the same 5kW MPPT and 4kW load but with much cooler air going in, max temps were 82F and averaging around 76F. Downright chilly. Yet the fan speed had not changed at all.
4. The fans seem to be set very aggressively. I changed the settings on the two upper fans. First at 70%. With a cool room but no ducted A/C air, the temps on those two fans barely shifted. I then tried 50% and noted even under pretty decent load, the max temp was only around 85F. The middle one consistently being a little warmer.

The bad news for me is this location is the only one that makes sense for the inverter. The good news is there is an existing door frame between the back hall and the kitchen where I can reinstall a door. The only issue there is the back hall is more like an overgrown closet and will heat up with a closed door unless I vent the room somehow.

Questions:

1. Are there internal temp sensors that are just not exposed in the UI or that I have somehow overlooked?
2. Will we get similar settings for the PV fan like we do for the upper two?
3. Shouldn't the fan speeds be dictated not just by load but by the temp of the critical components the fans are there to protect in the first place?
4. Has anyone done any ducting to/from an inverter to quiet them that maintains necessary cooling? This is another option I am considering.
5. Does EG4 have any plans to update/change the PV fan speed so that it isn't howling at >3kW when the cooling fin temps are only 74F?

Maybe I am oversimplifying things by looking at the cooling like I would a custom built PC. A PC is really simple, make sure your CPU, GPU, MB, spinning rust, etc. are running within temperature windows and use simple PWM fan curves to make the PC as quiet as possible but yet adequately cooled under all conditions. Have alarms that trigger if any temps are off nominal.

 

[SunBandit]

Bumping this in hopes that someone from EG4 can at least let us know if there will be a similar type of fan control on the PV fan.

Also, I discovered that there is at least one temperature sensor inside the unit that reports data via Solar Assistant. My max temp at full load (both PV and output) is 105F.

 

[rhino]

The EG4 18kPV has same issue except it is a screaming hair dryer when you go above 5kW. They do not seem to take ambient temp into consideration and I've asked about this with no solution provided.

 

[Andrewr05]

I'd DIY new fans into it if it were me.
But I'm a mad scientist/tinkerer, it'd end up being be some external fan abomination

 

[SunBandit]

I'd DIY new fans into it if it were me.
But I'm a mad scientist/tinkerer, it'd end up being be some external fan abomination

This is precisely where I think I am headed. Some sort of 3D printed duct that goes into the wall and down under the house (about 5ft) with an extractor fan on the end. I'll either tap the PWM from the 6000xp fans or use the inverter temp via MQTT and have an ESP32 with a motor driver that controls the fan on the other end. I already did a similar extraction fan in my closet where all my server gear lives. Works well.

 

[Burrito5000]

I just got my three 6000XP's up and running and man are they loud. I've found there are a few temperature sensor outputs available if you go to the web based monitoring software (https://monitor.eg4electronics.com). Go to the data section and click on 'data history'. There are several columns to the far right, Tinner, Tradiator1, 2, &3, and Tbat.

After running the default settings for a few days the highest reading I've seen is a Tradiator2 of 64C. I'm going to bump the fan speeds down to 60% with the 'new slope' option and see what kind of temps I get.
My inverters are located in my garage with ambient temps in the low 90's F right now.

Not sure I trust the temp readings here though in this app. I may open up the inverters and put some temp probes in there and try different fan settings.

My highest loads right now max out at about 3500W output and 3000W PV on each inverter.


Three of these in the garage together sounds like a giant swarm of pissed off bees.

 

[Rednecktek]

Are those fans a standard size PC case fan on 12v? Could you just replace them with a nice Noctua or SilentX?

 

[Burrito5000]

That may be an option..

 

[ScrotpusGobbleBottom]

I discovered that there is at least one temperature sensor inside the unit that reports data via Solar Assistant.

What is this sensor on??
I noticed it and its the same under the battery tab.
There is no battery temp sensor going to my 6000 xp

 

[Rednecktek]

Sure looks like a standard 80mm fan. You'd probably have to splice the wires from standard PC to EG4 plug but some Noctuas would be a great improvement.

 

[Brucey]

Are those fans a standard size PC case fan on 12v? Could you just replace them with a nice Noctua or SilentX?

Often these loud screaming fans are designed for high flow/static pressure, which the quieter fans can't deliver. I guess eg4 will never know, if it fails under warranty just connect the old fans back before shipping back for replacement.

 

[Andrewr05]

Often these loud screaming fans are designed for high flow/static pressure, which the quieter fans can't deliver. I guess eg4 will never know, if it fails under warranty just connect the old fans back before shipping back for replacement.

I'd get some 80mm to 90 or 120mm adapters and just put in some larger fans with higher static pressure.

I would trade a louder fan at a lower frequency for these 80mm banshee fans.

 

[Offgrid Jungle]

Do those fans exit air or intake air? I see what looks like an intake panel on the other side of the inverter. I found the specs on that fan and compared it to a Noctua fan 80mm. The Noctua is only half the airflow so it's a no-go.

 

[Recovering EE]

Do those fans exit air or intake air? I see what looks like an intake panel on the other side of the inverter. I found the specs on that fan and compared it to a Noctua fan 80mm. The Noctua is only half the airflow so it's a no-go.

Exit

 

[fmeili1]

Questions:

1. Are there internal temp sensors that are just not exposed in the UI or that I have somehow overlooked?
2. Will we get similar settings for the PV fan like we do for the upper two?
3. Shouldn't the fan speeds be dictated not just by load but by the temp of the critical components the fans are there to protect in the first place?
4. Has anyone done any ducting to/from an inverter to quiet them that maintains necessary cooling? This is another option I am considering.
5. Does EG4 have any plans to update/change the PV fan speed so that it isn't howling at >3kW when the cooling fin temps are only 74F?

about point 4.

I've done it with my EG4-6500EX because the noise level was unacceptable - even they are installed in the (attached) garage. For this reason I put a lot of work into solving this problem.

But to make them quiet you need to actively cool them AND the fans needs to be temperature controlled. See my build thread with the ducted cooling and my fan-modding post to make them temperature controlled.
I still use the original fans because you'll not find quiet replacement fans with the same max. airflow (even in case the ducted A/C would break it should not be possible to overheat the units).
With these two - very expensive and work intensive extensions/moddings - the AIO's are now quiet and very cool, even under the highest load.

Btw. I can't believe that even the newer EG4-6000XP models (which are advertised as a better replacement compared to the EG4-6500EX) do not have temperature controlled fans.

 

[kampto]

Yep, would like to have some answers here too. These fans run to fast and often for light conditions. And in the PC app what is slope and is that fan speed by temperature? If so I want that.

 

[kampto]

I just got my three 6000XP's up and running and man are they loud. I've found there are a few temperature sensor outputs available if you go to the web based monitoring software (https://monitor.eg4electronics.com). Go to the data section and click on 'data history'. There are several columns to the far right, Tinner, Tradiator1, 2, &3, and Tbat.

After running the default settings for a few days the highest reading I've seen is a Tradiator2 of 64C. I'm going to bump the fan speeds down to 60% with the 'new slope' option and see what kind of temps I get.
My inverters are located in my garage with ambient temps in the low 90's F right now.

Not sure I trust the temp readings here though in this app. I may open up the inverters and put some temp probes in there and try different fan settings.

Thanks for pointing these temp readings out. These Temps have to be bogus, that's way to hot in my 32C shed when this thing is only under <150w AC load from PV only, battery already at 100%. And where's that battery temp coming from? The LCD on battery says 32C and even on the battery section on Monitor page says 32C. Are those temps internal to the hot IC's?

 

[740GLE]

about point 4.

I've done it with my EG4-6500EX because the noise level was unacceptable - even they are installed in the (attached) garage. For this reason I put a lot of work into solving this problem.

But to make them quiet you need to actively cool them AND the fans needs to be temperature controlled. See my build thread with the ducted cooling and my fan-modding post to make them temperature controlled.
I still use the original fans because you'll not find quiet replacement fans with the same max. airflow (even in case the ducted A/C would break it should not be possible to overheat the units).
With these two - very expensive and work intensive extensions/moddings - the AIO's are now quiet and very cool, even under the highest load.

Btw. I can't believe that even the newer EG4-6000XP models (which are advertised as a better replacement compared to the EG4-6500EX) do not have temperature controlled fans.

Crazy that you were able to implement such an easy fix that should have been installed in the factory, they prob save $25 per unit by skipping it.

 

[fmeili1]

Crazy that you were able to implement such an easy fix that should have been installed in the factory, they prob save $25 per unit by skipping it.

Yes, it's completely not understandable why temperature controlled fans are not standard. I may understand why the EG4-6500EX does not have it because it's a pretty old design (based on the Voltronix Axpert Max MKS2-8000 series). But what it makes even more crazy is that even the new AIOs like EG4-6000XP, EG4-18kPV and EG4-12kPV do not implemented such a feature.

I think this should be standard these days. There are a lot of people who install the units in conditioned space and they don't get any benefit in terms of noise level without temperature controlled fan control.

 

[740GLE]

the people who buy them also don’t care about idle consumption either and just enjoy the cheap price.

Price wins all.

 

[Madcodger]

the people who buy them also don’t care about idle consumption either and just enjoy the cheap price.

Price wins all.

Respectfully disagree. Idle consumption is definitely a concern.

A big problem is that there's still a good-sized gulf between the price demanded by higher-end suppliers such as Victron compared to lower priced units with great features but some build/quality issues, such as this fan issue with the EG4 units. I would gladly pay $25-$100 more per unit for the EG4 devices if this fan issue didn't exist. There's a market opportunity for EG4 to continue moving up market, addressing issues such as idle consumption and fan noise, at somewhat higher price points.

 

[Offgrid Jungle]

Respectfully disagree. Idle consumption is definitely a concern.

A big problem is that there's still a good-sized gulf between the price demanded by higher-end suppliers such as Victron compared to lower priced units with great features but some build/quality issues, such as this fan issue with the EG4 units. I would gladly pay $25-$100 more per unit for the EG4 devices if this fan issue didn't exist. There's a market opportunity for EG4 to continue moving up market, addressing issues such as idle consumption and fan noise, at somewhat higher price points.

the people who buy them also don’t care about idle consumption either and just enjoy the cheap price.

Price wins all.

Nope. I replaced a few light bulbs with LED and added some motion switches to completely offset the idle usage. I'll bet you can find 100 watts that you are wasting in your house that could be "donated" to a valuable inverter.

 

[Offgrid Jungle]

Back on topic...here is the data for the fans in the EG4 6000XP:


...and here is a Noctua 120mm fan that closely matches the performance of the stock fan:


Just 3D print this adapter and you are good to go as long as the cabinet is 5 inches wide:

 

[Delmar]

There has got to be an easier solution. The Noctua NF-P14s is quiet plus has a pleasing sound. But it has half the airflow.

Could you build a small external plenum and run four Noctua fans? The plenum could be constructed from rigid foamboard.

 

[Offgrid Jungle]

There has got to be an easier solution. The Noctua NF-P14s is quiet plus has a pleasing sound. But it has half the airflow.

Could you build a small external plenum and run four Noctua fans? The plenum could be constructed from rigid foamboard.

I just gave you the solution. One external plenum and one upsized fan.
NF-S12A = 107 m3/hr = 1.8 m3/min
Standard fan = 2.18 m3/min

higher static pressure capability, a fraction of the amps, and a fraction of the noise level