Alternatives to Battle Born
- Thread starter miller1587
- Start date
Good points, and worth taking seriously (particularly the latter point). I wouldn't be too concerned with the former as its quite rare that a large company would want to go out on a limb and take on additional liability for a DIY niche use case of their product, even if it was perfectly suited for that use case. That said, they may well endorse that use case, as they advertise that it 'replaces traditional fasteners, bolts, and rivets' and they feature testimonials on their website of a trailer maker and a custom motorhome maker that attach body panels with only VHB tape.
A growing trend with high end expedition vehicles is building frameless, rigid camper boxes, using adhesives in place of fasteners (not usually vhb tape but similar principle), and in testing its often the structural body panels that fail before the adhesive will. I know of one person who has had his panels mounted on the roof of his vehicle with VHB tape for over 5 years now, and another who has had body panels secured with VHB for over 25 years. But its a complicated subject and there are tradeoffs to either method (mechanical fasteners vs adhesives) and often some combination of the two is used.
All that said, I agree that it pays to be very prudent when building something where the consequences of failure are at best costly and at worst could cause injury or death.
Another factor to consider is that if you secure panels directly to your roof using VHB tape, heat may build up if you don't design in ventilation. And it will also be more complicated to remove the panel in the case of repair or replacement.
I thought about those points Supervstech and Dzi so I made the brackets mounted to the roof in 2 pieces which makes each panel easily removable. As for adhesion if my memory serves me right 1 square inch would hold 100 lbs so for 4 legs mounted per panel would be 400lbs BUTTTT I really wanted to be safe so I have 4.5 square inches per leg or foot whatever you want to call it which gives me a total of 18 square inches for 1800lbs per 16 pound panel for wind sheer and the likes. But then again I could change it and use a ladder mount system which is mounted to the gutter rails
Tony Scott
New Member
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- Feb 25, 2020
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if the BB fails inside the 10yr warrenty then it will be replaced, it don’t see a problem with that. Battle Born is guaranteeing 10 years of service.
Dragonfly Energy Corp. (“the Manufacturer”) warrants each Dragonfly Energy and Battle Born Batteries branded Li-ion battery (“the Product”) sold by Dragonfly Energy, Battle Born Batteries, or any of its authorized distributors or dealers, to be free of defects for a period of 10 years (“the Warranty Period”) from the date of sale as determined by either the customer’s sale receipt, the shipping invoice and/or the battery serial number, with proof of purchase.
Within the first 8 years of the Warranty Period, subject to the exclusions listed below, the Manufacturer will credit, replace or repair, if serviceable, the Product and/or parts of the Product, if the components in question are determined to be defective in material or workmanship.
After 8 years and up to 10 years, if the components in question are determined to be defective in material or workmanship, and the Manufacturer deems the components to be repairable, the Product will be repaired and returned.
If the Manufacturer deems the components to be not repairable, a new, similar Product will be offered at a discount of 30% off of the price listed at the time of the offer.
The offer will be valid for a period of 30 days after the date of notification.
And you have to pay the shipping to and from Battle Born.
Good discussion.
I have noticed a few factors affecting low temp cut off:
I am actually siding with Dacian (electrodacus) on the low temp charging issue. Put the batteries somewhere warm. Insulate it. Use a heater pad if you have an application where you are charging quickly when it's cold.
I have noticed a few factors affecting low temp cut off:
- Thermal mass of a large LiFePO4 bank makes it tough to freeze the entire bank, especially if intermittent loads are internally heating the cell. There are some battery studies using small temp sensors inside the cell, and discharging a pack warms them up nicely. But honestly, I doubt most people are actually freezing their cells down to 0 degrees Celsius, even when the nighttime temps hit -20 Celsius. Usually batteries are insulated in one way or another, or being discharged etc.
- Use case for LiFePO4 for solar is low c-rate. If we were pushing .4-1C, charging when cold would be devastating. But we never do that. Battle born said that their cut off works well for solar use case, and they have a research group who test this. They don't care what people think about their threshold, because if they were wrong, they would have warranty issues and would have to deal with it anyways.
- Lion energy has a higher low temp cut off threshold. 0 Degrees. But I don't like the case they use. And if one prismatic fails, you cant swap it out as you do with a DIY bank.
I am actually siding with Dacian (electrodacus) on the low temp charging issue. Put the batteries somewhere warm. Insulate it. Use a heater pad if you have an application where you are charging quickly when it's cold.
Yeah, the warranty is worded to protect the company, and it appears to give them a way to profit from a destroyed battery, or a technology shift over 8 years down the road...
Looks like a good warranty to me, but yeah... if the battery is heavily abused and fails battleborn wouldn't have to send you a new battery, they would have you ship to them and repair or replace, their choice.
They want the gold reputation to sell their product, so I would bet they satisfy.
Also, if you buy from a dealer, the dealer may ship or exchange them for you... just a thought, no idea if they do.
Wow? Seriously?
This makes sense.
I usually keep my packaging for 90 days... sometimes forever... still have the original box for my Commodore 64 bought in 1983...
A stated warranty that exceeds what most other battery manufacturers are willing to offer may imply that there is confidence in the product. Or when data is pulled from the battery at some time (years) down the road under warranty, the conclusion may be the battery warranty would not apply as the battery cycle count was met or the use case fell within the exclusion list. This may or may not be the strategy where time will tell.
...or that they're banking on the fact that people will have sold/replaced their 10 year old technology with something newer. ...or that they're banking on the fact that people don't measure their capacity regularly. ...or that they plan to not exist in it's current shape in 10 years, whether through bankruptcy or acquisition.
Warranties are a math equation for a manufacturer, they should not be used as a judge of quality.
Also Lion Energy states a lifetime warranty, FWIW.
Warranties are a math equation for a manufacturer, they should not be used as a judge of quality.
Also Lion Energy states a lifetime warranty, FWIW.
Justin Laureltec
Bay Marine Supply Tech Support Manager
Well, Limited Lifetime Warranty based on their expected life, not yours, which I feel is a fairly important distinction to make. Basically, warranted until they reach 80% capacity... which isn't actually all that reassuring. I also note that it appears to be only the cells that are warranted, it makes no mention of the BMS. Granted, every warranty is written to protect the issuer as much as possible, but it always bears investigation into what is actually meant when a company says "Lifetime Warranty".
I agree with you where I seriously doubt anyone will be collecting on a ten year battery warranty. Even possibly after a few years where I'm sure battery manufacturers are data logging.
Can you tell me how and where to get these batteries for my DIY System?
Many many resellers selling raw cells to build your own batteries. Be aware its not comparable to Battleborn or other Drop-ins, its something you need to research, learn, build and protect yourself. And you will not have support or warranty.
There is a lot of info in the DIY lifepo4 section of this website on how to build your own battery and sellers that are popular here. There is currently a group buy for 280Ah cells that is worth considering, check the group buy section of the website, look for the username Michael B Caro.
orangeminnie
New Member
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- Feb 5, 2020
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Here it is. In short: They made a judgement of 25F cutoff based on their anticipation that consumers won't be charging at high C rates.
