Anyone familiar with these SCCs?

[Dzl]

It's just that I don't really think seriously about any inverter with NEMA sockets.

Most EVO models are made to be hardwired. I may be mistaken but I believe the 1200W model is the only one that can (optionally) be purchased with builtin GFCI outlets instead of hardwiring. The rest are HW by default.

But to the broader point, while I do think there is some correlation between quality and builtin outlets, I think its at least as much if not more a indication of use-case and goals, as it is about quality. For a small or medium boat or van or even a small-medium UPS builtin outlets might be ideal and hardwiring would be excess, unnecessary, and more costly. For a whole home or cabin or larger mobile or marine electrical system hardwiring is a no brainer.

I have nothing bad to say about either Outback or Schnieder (The former is a brand I have a very good impression of and would seriously consider the Outback FX if it were a bit cheaper, the latter I dont know enough about to have a solid opinion, I have heard their firmware has been lacking in recent years, but that is third hand info). If we are talking hybrid inverters for medium to large systems, there are probably many options more capable (and more expensive) than a Samlex Evo or Victron Multi. This is not my area of interest, so not an area I have much exposure to. Sol-Ark and SMA would be two other well regarded names in this space I think? But now we are getting real pricey.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

It's just that I don't really think seriously about any inverter with NEMA sockets. I don't mind recommending them for friends that can't afford better, but I wouldn't have one, besides an EVO. But, even in EVO is overpriced compared to other inverters of greater capacity. Radian and XW are what I consider serious, and what I would always recommend.

I don’t balk at larger numbers for a better price, but one thing I’ve learned (from also having grown up loving car audio and big stereo systems) is that those numbers can be fudged, and that the quality mfgs do not fudge their numbers. You get what they say you get and in full. In example, EVO is a low frequency inverter, its 3x power surge rating is not boasted for 20 seconds like I see some mfg claim, instead they give examples of “boost” loads the inverter is capable of handling for some time. The 3x is for 1-100ms (or something like that, spec sheet tells you).

It has direct AC connection to be wired into a breaker box (if this Is your complaint). That said, I feel like built in receptacles can be convenient, in many cases.

2200 Watt 12V Pure Sine Inverter/Charger | EVO-2212 | Samlex America

2000W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger with 100A Battery Charger + 40A Transfer Switch. Marine grade, heavy-duty power for rv, boat & off-grid. Lithium compatible.

samlexamerica.com

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Most EVO models are made to be hardwired. I may be mistaken but I believe the 1200W model is the only one that can (optionally) be purchased with builtin GFCI outlets instead of hardwiring. The rest are HW by default.

But to the broader point, while I do think there is some correlation between quality and builtin outlets, I think its at least as much if not more a indication of use-case and goals, as it is about quality. For a small or medium boat or van or even a small-medium UPS builtin outlets might be ideal and hardwiring would be excess, unnecessary, and more costly. For a whole home or cabin or larger mobile or marine electrical system hardwiring is a no brainer.

I have nothing bad to say about either Outback or Schnieder (The former is a brand I have a very good impression of and would seriously consider the Outback FX if it were a bit cheaper, the latter I dont know enough about to have a solid opinion, I have heard their firmware has been lacking in recent years, but that is third hand info). If we are talking hybrid inverters for medium to large systems, there are probably many options more capable (and more expensive) than a Samlex Evo or Victron Multi. This is not my area of interest, so not an area I have much exposure to. Sol-Ark and SMA would be two other well regarded names in this space I think? But now we are getting real pricey.

I looked at the victron multiplus series, but I found the EVO to be a better value. I don’t have money to spend on an overpriced name brand. More $ does not always = greater quality or value.

 

[Dzl]

I looked at the victron multiplus series, but I found the EVO to be a better value. I don’t have money to spend on an overpriced name brand. More $ does not always = greater quality or value.

Based on the first Amazon prices I saw, there is a:
~6% price difference between the Multi 2000 and Evo 2200 (favoring the EVO)
~5% price difference between the Multi 3000 and EVO 3000 (favoring the Multi)

Often, I share your perspective of more $$ or name brand =/= additional value or quality. But in the case of inverters I wouldn't characterize either Victron or Samlex inverters as examples of overpriced brand names without additional quality or value. Though one place I am critical of these two companies and many others in the inverter space is charging extra for the remote panel which I believe is needed to take full advantage of the inverters advanced functionality and settings.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

i Wasn’t implying samlex was overpriced, I was implying victron was; that said, perhaps I spoke out of ignorance and had not properly compared apples to apples. Even so, 1k is about the max I have budgeted. It’s not a hard stop, but 1300 is a number that is creeping up too much. I am on a budget and still have proper wiring, breakers, fuses, and the like to keep in mind. Now...with a solar charge controller integrated, it might be a different story.

 

[Dzl]

i Wasn’t implying samlex was overpriced, I was implying victron was; that said, perhaps I spoke out of ignorance and had not properly compared apples to apples. Even so, 1k is about the max I have budgeted. It’s not a hard stop, but 1300 is a number that is creeping up too much. I am on a budget and still have proper wiring, breakers, fuses, and the like to keep in mind. Now...with a solar charge controller integrated, it might be a different story.

Yeah I definitely understand the price creep, and with inverters especially it feels like there is this big gap between the cheap budget options most of which are either lacking in features or build quality and the high quality 1k+ options from reputable brands. If you don't need >1200VA or don't need low frequency or want low frequency but are willing to stepdown in quality and company reputation a bit there are some options in the 400-800 range (Evo 1212, Victron Phoenix 1200, Xantrex, Sigineer/Aims, etc)

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Yeah I definitely understand the price creep, and with inverters especially it feels like there is this big gap between the cheap budget options most of which are either lacking in features or build quality and the high quality 1k+ options from reputable brands. If you don't need >1200VA or don't need low frequency or want low frequency but are willing to stepdown in quality and company reputation a bit there are some options in the 400-800 range (Evo 1212, Victron Phoenix 1200, Xantrex, Sigineer/Aims, etc)

2200 w is the lowest I’ll go with a reputable product, for aims or the like, probably not a good idea to get less than 3kw. Needs to be low frequency/industrial. It will power a mini split ac, fridge, water pump(s) etc. I like that the EVO is UL listed, too. I would like more than 2200w, but it’s a compromise I can live with. it would be nice if the inverter was stackable (like victron’s for instance). I‘d also rather not get something cheap that will destroy my system. oh well, I have plenty of time to decide. No rush to make this decision.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Mind commenting on the giandel Will seems to recommend?

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

A local solar company tried to sell me one of these for $300 the other day. After trying to charge me tax on 6 used solar panels that they got for free when doing an insurance job...

https://makeskyblue.com/products/60a-mppt-solar-charge-controller-w-wifi I’m not even sure the one they offered was WiFi.

 

[Dzl]

Mind commenting on the giandel Will seems to recommend?

It definitely won't meet either of these requirements:

Needs to be low frequency/industrial

I've never fully understood what the recommendation is based on and don't believe he has done a video review before. I don't know a lot about Giandel personally, from what I've heard its not a bad brand as far as budget high frequency inverters go. But it is a budget high frequency inverter, with some of the usual shortcomings (low surge capability, no lifepo4 profile/custom settings, more limited documentation/support). I've heard it described as "towards the high end of the low end" I'm not informed enough on this brand to know how accurate that is or isn't. It is also worth noting since this is a brand not a manufacturer that may source from different manufacturers the reputation of one model or one model year may not apply to others.

Some Leads:
One thread on Giandel
Search results
Some comments from @gnubie

 

[Dzl]

A local solar company tried to sell me one of these for $300 the other day. After trying to charge me tax on 6 used solar panels that they got for free when doing an insurance job...

https://makeskyblue.com/products/60a-mppt-solar-charge-controller-w-wifi I’m not even sure the one they offered was WiFi.

MakeSkyBlue does not have a good reputation from what I've heard. Some have had horrible experiences, others say they are so-so. You will find more info if you do a forum search.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

It's just that I don't really think seriously about any inverter with NEMA sockets. I don't mind recommending them for friends that can't afford better, but I wouldn't have one, besides an EVO. But, even in EVO is overpriced compared to other inverters of greater capacity. Radian and XW are what I consider serious, and what I would always recommend.

i checked out the outback and magnums. No doubt they’re serious inverters, just out of my budget range.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Ok ok ok....if....IF....I increase my inverter budget to $1500, what would you recommend?

 

[MichaelK]

Ok ok ok....if....IF....I increase my inverter budget to $1500, what would you recommend?

Well, I have a Schneider at 1420$. I can recommend that from personal experience. I installed that in my workshop specifically for powering my tools, and it has, saws up to 10". It has split phase 120/240V AC and can also charge the batteries directly via a generator.

Schneider Electric Conext SW4024-120/240 Inverter/Charger - RES Supply

Free Shipping! Schneider Electric Conext SW4024-120/240 Inverter/Charger, 4000W, 120/240VAC, 50/60Hz, 30A Transfer, 24VDC, 90A Charger, RNW8654024

ressupply.com

In regards to the surge ratings we talked about above, for example, the Samlex inverter I mentioned has a 200% surge for <8milliseconds. The Schneider has a 200% surge of 5 seconds. In the real-world, I haven't yet run enough tools all at the same time yet to notice a problem.

 

[Dzl]

Ok ok ok....if....IF....I increase my inverter budget to $1500, what would you recommend?

You may have already explained and I missed it (I came into this thread rather late I think), but it would be well worth your time to explain your needs and wants and the contours of the rest of your system. As with many things, I don't think there is really a 'best' or 'ideal' it depends on context and it depends on what is important to you.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

You may have already explained and I missed it (I came into this thread rather late I think), but it would be well worth your time to explain your needs and wants and the contours of the rest of your system. As with many things, I don't think there is really a 'best' or 'ideal' it depends on context and it depends on what is important to you.

it’s real simple, I want it all and I want it cheap.

Thus far, I’ve been exploring inverter features. How can I know what I want unless I know what’s available? But based on the back and forth in this thread, I have been able to gather a lot of information and have spent a lot of time reading spec sheets. I feel like I am close to pulling the trigger on something (not sure what yet). I have come so far as to concede I need to increase my inverter budget to get what I want.

The Schneider is impressive. Split phase is a want but not an any time soon need. I was considering a stackable series to achieve split phase later.

One thing samlex makes a point in communicating is synchronized wave form transfer. That is something that is important to me. I like the idea of prolonging the life of sensitive electronics/equipment.

Between the Schneider and the EVO, there are some differences in comparison both positive and negative, but the beefier stuff for the EVO 4024 seem less important. I guess what I am saying is the Schneider seems to have put the money where it matters most, short of synchronized wave form transfer. I will have to compare these two inverter more carefully and closely.

Frankly, at this point I thought increasing my budget would allow a clear choice to stand out. Instead, I feel like it has opened another can of worms. Though, in the grand scheme of things, I guess that is a good thing.

 

[Dzl]

it’s real simple, I want it all and I want it cheap.

Thus far, I’ve been exploring inverter features. How can I know what I want unless I know what’s available?

I understand, its sort of a chicken and an egg thing. Its hard to get good guidance/advice or narrow things down if you don't know what you want, but its hard to know what you want without some guidance and awareness of what is available and important.

You don't have to know exactly what you want, but I'm sure you at least know some things your context and use case and priorities for instance (and again you may have already answered this, sorry if you have):

1. "I'm building a van, I want something compact, efficient, 12V or 24V with a charger function for shorepower charging, needs neutral ground switching (UL458) my largest load will be a 2000W inverter Micro wave"
2. "This is for my shop, so size and weight don't matter, but surge capability is critical and I need split phase, it needs to be 48V, I want to be able to run a table saw a minisplit air conditioner, I have a large PV array so efficiency isn't critical, I can always add another panel or three, needs to be UL listed for insurance purposes"
3. "I'm building a boat, etc, etc."
4. "I'm building a UPS, etc, etc"

In the $1000-2000 / 2000-5000W range I would focus on these brands/models for starters:
Samlex Evo <--- great price for Dual AC input, great documentation, good support
Victron Multiplus <--- well built, modern featureset, great surge rating good option especially if you will be using other Victron Components
Magnum MS <---- split phase at an affordable-ish price, great documentation
Outback FX <---- well built, extremely durable and serviceable
Schneider Conext <----very affordable split phase option, don't know much about them beyond this

Frankly, at this point I thought increasing my budget would allow a clear choice to stand out. Instead, I feel like it has opened another can of worms. Though, in the grand scheme of things, I guess that is a good thing.

Yeah I think this is the case. A higher budget just moves the decision a little further up the food chain. Actually in some ways it probably makes it harder, because the higher up the food chain you go the more advanced features and functions to compare/contrast. There is not just one good option. There are potentially many. Just depends on what works for you, what fits your budget, and what you find to be the best value.

If you shop / limit your choices to what specialized reputable sellers like this one for instance are comfortable selling. You can limit your options to a manageable number of reputable brands/models.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

charter bus conversion, 1500 watts of solar, ~600 AH 24v lifepo4 batteries, 5500w genset.
system will power fridge, mini split 12000 btu ac, 120v induction stove, various electronics.

At least 3kw continuous
integrated charger, the faster the better
24/7 inverter use
integrated auto-transfer done right
power source priority select
pass-through AC conditioning
DC/solar input from scc
UL listed

i’d like to understand more about the UL listings though. There’s specifically a UL for mobile. Is that one less strict, for instance, because there is no use case for feeding a grid (running meters backward)?

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

If you shop / limit your choices to what specialized reputable sellers like this one for instance are comfortable selling. You can limit your options to a manageable number of reputable brands/models.

thanks. I’ve seen that link, but it wasn’t described to me like you just did. Very much appreciated.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Hah...found the forum thread on UL