Anyone have the scoop on the upcoming Sol-Ark limitless system?

[TootyBooty]

From my memory of the presentation yesterday:

- 200A grid pass-through with ATS (this really is a nice feature for grid-connect, no need for an outboard ATS)
- 15kw continuous inverter capability from DC connected solar
- 12kw continuous inverter capability from DC connected battery. The battery input includes TWO, parallel 200A DC breakers with a busbar on the inverter side, so you do not have to combine externally. I asked what the limiting factor here was - the answer was that 12kw is a lot of power at nominal 48v dc batteries and the battery industry is really focused on 48v... for what it's worth, 2 x 200A DC breakers at 50V = 20kw...
- 3 MPPTs, with amperage upped to 26A per MPPT to handle increasingly larger panel availability
- Gen breaker supports 24kw (100A) for either generator or AC-Coupled inverters.

That's the extent of my ability to recall data. LOL!

 

[Glucola]

Here is the link for overview of the 15k & smart load with pricing if any one is interested

 

[Mhoward84]

From my memory of the presentation yesterday:

- 200A grid pass-through with ATS (this really is a nice feature for grid-connect, no need for an outboard ATS)
- 15kw continuous inverter capability from DC connected solar
- 12kw continuous inverter capability from DC connected battery. The battery input includes TWO, parallel 200A DC breakers with a busbar on the inverter side, so you do not have to combine externally. I asked what the limiting factor here was - the answer was that 12kw is a lot of power at nominal 48v dc batteries and the battery industry is really focused on 48v... for what it's worth, 2 x 200A DC breakers at 50V = 20kw...
- 3 MPPTs, with amperage upped to 26A per MPPT to handle increasingly larger panel availability
- Gen breaker supports 24kw (100A) for either generator or AC-Coupled inverters.

That's the extent of my ability to recall data. LOL!

Which is much greater than my ability! ?

 

[Roqm]

Does anyone here have the scoop on the Sol-Ark product about to be released? I'm wondering if it's worth waiting around for it to be released, or pull the trigger on a 12k. I'm also curious if it's another Deye product.

Taken from practical preppers website.

 

[FunnyLogic]

If I recall correctly, they said the SmartLoad-14 was $3,100 during the presentation. They also just uploaded the official spec sheet on the website for the 15k:

https://www.sol-ark.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Sol-Ark-Product-Catalog-2022-1-dragged-1.pdf

I'm so close to building my system, so I may just wait for it. The 200A pass through and the max PV input + AC coupling may be enough that I won't need two unit like I would with the 12k. Still working on analyzing my usage to see overall needs.

 

[robby]

I'll be honest with you the 3 MPPTs was a complete surprise recently when the brochure came out, all of this was initially planned for 12K Inverters so this is a last minute change up with the 15K announcement, and you are probably right that I'll end up leaving one unused in each Inverter because shading is almost none. I also have a south facing shop roof I could cover with solar if the 14kw turns out to be not enough, thus those 2 extra MPPTs would be good to have as spares.

Oh man I would really have loved that third MPPT port on the 12K. I would have put in some West facing panels to top up the batteries just before sunset.

 

[robby]

When he said in the video that they limited to 12Kw on Battery because of wire size and current I was a bit skeptical but after doing the math I see what he is saying. At 12KW we are talking about over 250 Amps being drawn.
You would need 4/0 AWG wire for that assuming the run is not to long. Going up to 15KW would require specialized wire like 350 Kcmil wire. That stuff is over 3/4" thick and I can imagine that internal parts to make that work are going to be super expensive as you are now dealing in the fringe market area.

 

[TootyBooty]

When he said in the video that they limited to 12Kw on Battery because of wire size and current I was a bit skeptical but after doing the math I see what he is saying. At 12KW we are talking about over 250 Amps being drawn.
You would need 4/0 AWG wire for that assuming the run is not to long. Going up to 15KW would require specialized wire like 350 Kcmil wire. That stuff is over 3/4" thick and I can imagine that internal parts to make that work are going to be super expensive as you are now dealing in the fringe market area.

I was glad I asked about the battery limitation, too. Always good to understand the design constraints. Makes me wonder if 48v batt days are limited. Triple the voltage to 144v, 15kw from batts is only 104 amps… and one of the two 200a battery breakers could be removed.

But to your 4/0 comment… keep in mind the 15k has two 200a breakers, so two runs must be made for each 15k. My calculations show two 2awg runs at 48v DC with 250 amps total could run 19 feet at just below a 2% voltage drop. So I do hope that in the future, they change the limits in software to allow up to 15kw via batt… though the hard limit on bursts would still be 400a due to breakers, or roughly 20kw.

I assume if you parallel two 15k units on a house with 200A service, just a single 15k needs the grid feed. So much easier than having three 12k units, each passing 63A through! Cannot wait for the 15k manual to be released.

 

[AleksK]

Oh man I would really have loved that third MPPT port on the 12K. I would have put in some West facing panels to top up the batteries just before sunset.

You could still technically do that by installing tigo optimizers on the west facing string and paralleling with an existing string and then into the 12k assuming you haven't maxed out the 13kw of solar input per unit already.

Not the best solution but it's probably still cheaper than the 15k price increase over the 12k.

 

[TootyBooty]

You could still technically do that by installing tigo optimizers on the west facing string and paralleling with an existing string and then into the 12k assuming you haven't maxed out the 13kw of solar input per unit already.

Not the best solution but it's probably still cheaper than the 15k price increase over the 12k.

Another option is to AC-Couple those west-facing panels on your generator input, assuming you aren't using the gen input already...

 

[AleksK]

Another option is to AC-Couple those west-facing panels on your generator input, assuming you aren't using the gen input already...

Yup another potentially good way to go at it, but microinverters are slightly less reliable than Tigo and cost quite a bit more, but there are plenty of pros to offset those cons like no additional load on the inverter and better than tigo offset angle solar panel optimization (or lack of need for optimization).

 

[Mhoward84]

wrong thread... nm

 

[niktak11]

A bit disappointed to see that the 15k is only 12k continuous from batteries. I can probably make 2 work still though. I'll just have to be a bit more careful what's running during an outage.

 

[Mhoward84]

A bit disappointed to see that the 15k is only 12k continuous from batteries. I can probably make 2 work still though. I'll just have to be a bit more careful what's running during an outage.

Well come on. Sol ark labeling their inverter by output and not input? ?

 

[TootyBooty]

Well come on. Sol ark labeling their inverter by output and not input? ?

It does output 15kw from dc connected panels; the 12kw limit is just from battery… and for what its worth, even that limit seems just to be a software limit since the battery connection is a pair of 200A breakers capable of 20kw…. So I would not be surprised to see down the road if this 12kw limit is lifted. The hardware (breakers and inverter capacity) is all there.

 

[Mhoward84]

It does output 15kw from dc connected panels; the 12kw is just from battery…

Good call! That was just the 12k. Now they’re just redoing the “why the name doesn’t indicate output in all circumstances” trend ?

 

[TootyBooty]

Good call! That was just the 12k. Now they’re just redoing the “why the name doesn’t indicate output in all circumstances” trend ?

LOL - yeah, let's call it the Sol-Ark 12/15/17/20kw so we can cover battery and solar inverter limits, total dc panel limit and peaking capability. That wouldn't confuse anyone. . Oh wait, wouldn't we need to add 24kw in there to show the max amount of AC coupled capacity allowed on the Gen input?

 

[AleksK]

LOL - yeah, let's call it the Sol-Ark 12/15/17/20kw so we can cover battery and solar inverter limits, total dc panel limit and peaking capability. That wouldn't confuse anyone. . Oh wait, wouldn't we need to add 24kw in there to show the max amount of AC coupled capacity allowed on the Gen input?

Someone will still be upset because you didn't included the single leg output and the total maximum leg imbalance. Maybe one day they will just be called big, medium, and small lol

 

[RayofSunshine]

More info from YouTube:

I would really like to hear from them whether or not they have fixed the data monitoring and/or firmware update servers being hosted from inside the PRC (mainland China). Also, I believe they have been talking about transitioning at least some of their manufacturing from the PRC to Texas. I'd like to know exactly where the 15K is manufactured. I need a new roof, so I'm going (grid tied) solar + ESS pretty soon. At first I thought Enphase might be best for my situation, but cost, plus the round trip losses of an AC coupled ESS system made me look harder at other solutions. Next, I thought SolarEdge might be better, but the constant barrage of customer and installer complaints I read on-line regarding both optimizer and inverter failures soured me on them. Then I found Sol-Ark. DC coupled: check. Two MPPTs (when paired with Solaria panels in a minimal shade/orientation challenged installation) to make panel shading efficiency losses a non-issue: check. Grid-tied with sell-back (I live in NJ): check. Battery agnostic 48V friendly (making the longer lasting, safer, more cost efficient, more eco-friendly LiFePO4 batteries a good choice): check. Generator input capable (I have a standby generator now, and am thinking of a whole home backup generator if a reasonably sized ESS isn't enough for a longer term power outage (I have natural gas to the house)): check. Veteran owned (I am a big supporter of our service members - current and Vets): check. The only real problems I have are the PRC connections: both manufacturing (possible hardware/firmware back doors), and hosting/monitoring (possible software back doors and personal data theft). I really want to convince myself to get the Sol-Ark, but by them not even addressing/responding to these issues (I've tried, and got zero response, and I know others have as well), it really makes me wonder...

 

[robby]

Well come on. Sol ark labeling their inverter by output and not input? ?

Do the math on Amperage and wire size needed for 15Kw from 48Vdc and you will understand why they limited it to 12Kw.

 

[niktak11]

Do the math on Amperage and wire size needed for 15Kw from 48Vdc and you will understand why they limited it to 12Kw.

That's only 312.5A at 48V. Even a single 2/0 105C copper conductor can do that (assuming the terminals and connectors can handle 105C too).

 

[robby]

That's only 312.5A at 48V. Even a single 2/0 105C copper conductor can do that (assuming the terminals and connectors can handle 105C too).

Nope!
2/0 is for 200A circuits when you factor in oversize.
You would need 312.5A x 1.25 = 390A Wire. You did not factor in the needed oversize.
This is pretty much 400Amp wire which would be 750 Kcmil wire which is 1.1" thick and is almost impossible to find in a flexible form factor.
This is the main reason why they cut it of at 12Kw because after that you start to get into very exotic and difficult stuff to work with, and it costs a small fortune.

 

[niktak11]

Nope!
2/0 is for 200A circuits when you factor in oversize.
You would need 312.5A x 1.25 = 390A Wire. You did not factor in the needed oversize.
This is pretty much 400Amp wire which would be 750 Kcmil wire which is 1.1" thick and is almost impossible to find in a flexible form factor.
This is the main reason why they cut it of at 12Kw because after that you start to get into very exotic and difficult stuff to work with, and it costs a small fortune.

Someone else mentioned that this model has two sets of battery terminals so you should be able to get away with two sets of 4/0 or smaller

 

[robby]

Someone else mentioned that this model has two sets of battery terminals so you should be able to get away with two sets of 4/0 or smaller

Using a pair of wires is not the way your supposed to do battery wiring. If one falls off the other one becomes a heating element that can burn down your house.

 

[niktak11]

Using a pair of wires is not the way your supposed to do battery wiring. If one falls off the other one becomes a heating element that can burn down your house.

Hopefully it has a separate dc breaker for each input