Are lithium ion batteries better than lead acid?

[JeremyG]

I have 5x flooded/lead acid batteries, plugged in parallel (red to red to red & black to black to black).
I've come to learn lead acid/flooded batteries;
. Need to be checked every month to ensure the distilled water is full.
. Can not be brought down more than 50% charge or they'll get damaged.
. Should not be in an environment where they could freeze (like a shed in south Ontario winter, where it can easily get to -20*C or -30*C.

My very first battery, purchased from Canadian Tire, a year ago is a flooded/lead acid battery.
Thus, I followed suit with the other batteries I collected, adding to the battery bank.

I've come to learn lithium are better than flooded.
They can be fully drained and still hold 98% charge.

I have 1x 1 year old battery and 4x 6 month old batteries.
Learning this new information about lithium is tempting me to sell the lead acid batteries and start building the battery bank with lithium.

Thoughts please?
Thank you.

 

[ericfx1984]

Lifepo4 has been a game changer for me

But, lead acid does tolerate cold temperatures much better than lifepo4

Edit... You can heat your battery and none of this matters ...edit

Lifepo4 take up less space and weighs less

Lead acid really needs to be fully charged a d charge hard... Lifepo4 doesn't really care...

Lifepo4 should last a very long time

 

[Mattb4]

When the price difference was really high like it was several years ago it was hard to justify Lithium. Even with all the benefits LiFePO4 brought to the table. That thankfully has changed. There are still applications that lead acid makes more sense to use so a case by case situation must be considered.

 

[SeaGal]

You can hear your battery and none of this matters

I found mine are pretty quiet. But maybe that's my old ears? ??

 

[SparkyJJO]

I found mine are pretty quiet. But maybe that's my old ears? ??

Mine speak to me in my dreams at night

 

[ericfx1984]

I found mine are pretty quiet. But maybe that's my old ears? ??

I'm not sure what I was intending to type there... I literally rolled out of bed and answered this question

But the rest of it... That makes sense

 

[ericfx1984]

Mine speak to me in my dreams at night

Oh heat... I meant to put heat

 

[wattmatters]

Thoughts please?

Neither can be said to be better without considering the context of their intended application and what's important to you and what your goals are. I have both.

 

[400bird]

Lead acid is "better" at starting and engine or surviving a cold winter. Lithium is better at energy density, but needs nice treatment in other ways.
(Like listening to it's stories ?)

Share some of your use case and set up so we can better understand and make recommendations.

 

[Checkthisout]

Yes, they are better in every way.

However, they still need to be protected from freezing.

The good news is they take up way less space and don't smell like yellowstone.

 

[scubadoo]

Lead acid is "better" at starting and engine or surviving a cold winter. Lithium is better at energy density, but needs nice treatment in other ways.
(Like listening to it's stories ?)

Share some of your use case and set up so we can better understand and make recommendations.

""better" at starting""?
The equation will be different if your batteries are regularly subject to freezing temperatures.

We dumped our 2 huge paralled LA start batteries 9 years ago.

Our 4 cell 300Ah LiFePO4 battery has now survived more than 9 years of full-time travelling in our motorhome.
It has both started the 3.9l turbo diesel engine perhaps a few thousand times and powered all the goodies behind. No internal BMS involved.

Coldest outside temperature ever was -12°C but only overnight while the stairwell installed battery case remained at 4°C. Although untested our Victron electronics is set to prevent charging below 1°C.


Everything still performs as expected.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

""better" at starting""?
The equation will be different if your batteries are regularly subject to freezing temperatures.

We dumped our 2 huge paralled LA start batteries 9 years ago.

Our 4 cell 300Ah LiFePO4 battery has now survived more than 9 years of full-time travelling in our motorhome.
It has both started the 3.9l turbo diesel engine perhaps a few thousand times and powered all the goodies behind. No internal BMS involved.

Coldest outside temperature ever was -12°C but only overnight while the stairwell installed battery case remained at 4°C. Although untested our Victron electronics is set to prevent charging below 1°C.


Everything still performs as expected.

What sort of battery management system do you have?

 

[scubadoo]

What sort of battery management system do you have?

No charging source exceeds 14.1V at which point the battery is always at 100% SOC regardless of charge current according to both the Victron SmartShunt and Junctek battery monitors.

Alternator c75A, solar up to 50A and rarely used battery charger 30A.

Noisy alarm at 14.4V, 20% SOC and Victron disconnect at 16V or 12.2V. Never triggered except testing.
Cell balancing has proved uncessary in 9 years although I do occasionally force to 14.50V, check and tweak. The few mWh ever involved certainly can't affect cell capacity.
Each November I perform a C/10 capacity test.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

No charging source exceeds 14.1V at which point the battery is always at 100% SOC regardless of charge current according to both the Victron SmartShunt and Junctek battery monitors.

Alternator c75A, solar up to 50A and rarely used battery charger 30A.

Noisy alarm at 14.4V, 20% SOC and Victron disconnect at 16V or 12.2V. Never triggered except testing.
Cell balancing has proved uncessary in 9 years although I do occasionally force to 14.50V, check and tweak. The few mWh ever involved certainly can't affect cell capacity.
Each November I perform a C/10 capacity test.

Call Guinness. You're the world record holder for the longest operational human BMS without failure. You are walking six sigma event. Congratulations.

 

[scubadoo]

Call Guinness. You're the world record holder for the longest operational human BMS without failure. You are walking six sigma event. Congratulations.

I have seen a few internal BMS controlled battery failures in way less than the 9 years our setup has survived.

 

[400bird]

Right, I assumed some was involved in every deployment. You've proved me wrong.

For high amperage output (like starting an engine) the cells can typically handle it, the BMS and it's pesky protections are the "problem"

 

[400bird]

the Victron SmartShunt and Junctek battery monitors.

Wait you need two shunts but couldn't be bothered to install one BMS?

 

[scubadoo]

Wait you need two shunts but couldn't be bothered to install one BMS?

I would have used the existing Victron SmartShunt anyway. The Junctek was cheap and accurate and I refer to it every day.

Find me an affordable and reliable (guaranteed not to fail in 9 years) internal BMS that can survive this 2 or 3 times a day and I could be interested.

My homebuilt external "BMS" has performed perfectly for the last 9 years.

 

[littleharbor2]

What is the 727.3A representing?

 

[scubadoo]

What is the 727.3A representing?

Typical and repeatable captured battery monitor peak starter motor current draw.
I have no method of recording the average.
At c12.2V engine starting usually takes less than a second.