Are my batteries even charging?

[seneysolar]

1. Completely disconnect all loads from the batteries.

(Does this mean disconnect the black and red wires from the batteries?)

1. Charge for three days.

(I'm sure this is going to make some eyes roll...Please excuse the inexperienced question...how am I supposed to charge the batteries without the controller?

1. Once charge current has tapered below 10A, terminate charge.

Here's where I'm lost. I don't have one of those small voltage meter things which electricians and mechanics have. I don't know what tool to use (or how to use it) to test this.

1. Disconnect all parallel battery strings from each other (you can leave the 6V Trojans in 2S for 12V, just not in parallel), so you have 9 separate "12V" batteries.

Disconnect all batteries in parallel, so I have 9 separate, 12v batteries. Mmmmk

1. Two hours after charging has terminated, check and record the voltage of all 13 batteries (8 6V and 5 12V).

I'll need a hand held multi-meter thing for that right? And learn how to use it?

1. Check and record all 54 specific gravity readings (use proper technique).

(I have no idea what that means...54 specific gravity reading?)

1. Let sit overnight.
2. Re-check and record the voltage of all 13 batteries.

I have some homework to do.
Going into solar, December 2022, all my education on the matter was from watching van life and tiny homes.
They made it seem so simple.
Plug the panels into the controller.
Plug the controller into the battery.
Plug the battery into the inverter.
Plug stuff into the inverter/power your electronics.

The things you guys are describing is way beyond that. Things I've never heard before, not mentioned at all in these van life videos.

I thank you for the humility, but I'm still really confused.

Ok, step 1 go get a multimeter. I prefer one with a built in amp clamp. Many do AC amps, you gotta look carefully for one that also does DC amps. This is priceless when troubleshooting solar. For right now, volts and amps are all you need to be concerned with.

I have a Klein from home depot, i think i spent $100 and i love it. I also have a Fluke at work, very nice but kinda overkill for a beginner.

 

[robbob2112]

The acid in FLA has a specific gravity. This basically tells you the proportion of acid to water in each cell. From that you can infer the state of charge of specific cells. In a single battery this should be a very very close match between cells. You have 9 batteries with 6 cells each which is where the number 54 comes from.

If any of your cells aren't covered to the top of the plates inside it you need to bring them to that then fully charge each battery. Once fully charged you should top them off to the bottom of the fill tube. DON'T use tap water and DON'T fill to the top of the battery.


If you haven't been filling your batteries or you have been using tap water we know your issue.

So go take those readings, specific gravity tester can be found in the automotive section of any store.

If you just want to check a few reading for voltage any meter will do. If you want to troubleshoot solar you need a hall effect clamp meter that also does multimeter functions. It would be great if it has peak save, but not required. I am partial to Fluke meters but others will work. My clamp meter is a 323 model. I got it as part of a kit with a model 117 true rms multimeter. They were spendy for me, but others are much more spendy. Others cheaper brands will work fine.

There are hundreds of videos on how to use them. You can learn the basics in 10 minutes to do what you need.

 

[Bluedog225]

You’re at the beginning and that’s ok.

A few concrete suggestions. All of this is in YouTube.

1. Watch some different videos. Branch out a little.
2. Understand the difference between the alternating current symbols and the direct current symbols and get a multimeter ($15) and learn how to measure voltage, current, and continuity.
3. Understand how a clamp meter ($100) works to measure current and get one. This can be the same as No 2. Or two separate.
4. Get a specific gravity battery water tester ($10) and learn how to use it correctly and what the results mean.
5. If you can afford it, abandon lead acid in favor of LiFePO4. Though this may have issues with cold weather.
6. Understand why mixing batteries can cause problems.
7. Understand why you have to use distilled water in batteries.
8. Call stuff by its name. The blue things are Victron brand. Very good stuff. And the phone and blue tooth stuff works great.
9. Your panels are probably fine. Your batteries may be shot. Or fatally wounded. Batteries require specific care and feeding or they die. One wounded battery pulls down the rest.
10. Understand the difference between a load and an input. Eg the fridge versus the charge controller.

Your system may work during the day because the panels are making watts and the loads are using them. Doesn’t require much from the batteries.

Design a system on paper with your panels, a decent charge controller, an inverter, and batteries. Include wire sizes and brands. Draw it up and this group will help. This will help you learn.

It gets better. All the best.

 

[Bluedog225]

The explorist life videos are pretty good.

https://m.youtube.com/@EXPLORISTlife/videos

Not to make light of your situation, but making a baby sounds simple too…(chuckle)

You got this.

 

[JeremyG]

First, let me thank everyone for their elaborate feedback and patience.

I know this won't fully satisfy the suggestions offered, but there's been some good news.

I have 3x 230 watt panels on my front porch, which gobbles up the sun rise.
I've got 2x 230 watt panels on my roof top, which gobbles up sun through the day.
Recently, I added 3x more panels (which has been stored in the shed. They were going to go on the roof...but I ended up putting them on the back room roof).
These 3x 230 watt panels gobble up the sun from mid day and evening.
When the sun slides over the house in the afternoon, the house shades over the 3x front porch panels.

I've noticed a major improvement from adding these 3 extra panels + beginning to follow some of your advice.

I spent the last few days trying to follow your advice, slowly, so I could be as accurate as possible.

The first thing I did was unplug all the batteries from the whole system.

Everyone recommended I focus on the Trojan batteries.
There are 8 of them.
They are 6v each.
So, I have them in pairs, in series, making them "4 batteries in 12v".

Once all the batteries were unplugged, I plugged just 1 set of trojan (6v x 2 = 12v).

Note: with all 8 (or 4) trojan + 2 moto master + 3 pro point, the batteries, the battery monitor commonly floated around 12.5 or 13, but quickly dropped down to 11 when the sun went down.

After 1 day, of just one trojan plugged in (and not running anything off the battery...just let it charge), it was in the 14's. 14.1, 14.2, 14.3 etc.
I haven't seen 'em that high in a very long time.

I plugged each set of trojan for 1 day.
Monday: 1st set of trojans
Tuesday: 2nd set
Wednesday: 3rd set
Thursday: 4th set.

By the end of each day, each battery made it to the 14's.

I didn't even bother with the moto master or pro point.

By the next morning, it was still well into the 14's.

I then plugged in 2 sets of trojans, and it stayed in the 14's.
The next day, I plugged 3 sets...it stayed in the 14's.
The next day, all 4 sets, it stayed in the 14's, getting as high as 14.6.

With this encouraging boost in numbers,
I gave a test, plugging in the fridge for a day and a couple washing machine loads.

By evening time, it was still well into the 14's.

I haven't checked off all the items suggested in the list.
I'm getting there slowly.

While the test is starting to show much improvement in the numbers...I'm also flirting with an idea.

I'm highly considering selling all the batteries and purchasing one of those extra large LifePo4 240ah lithium batteries.

I'm also wondering (along with the other suggestions I'm planning on trying in the coming days), should I upgrade my mttp solar controller.

I'm pretty sure I have an entry level mttp.

I'm not necessarily asking for more feedback, I'm merely reporting back my findings after a week of slowly following your advice and the strong results I've experienced.

So thank you.

 

[seneysolar]

First, let me thank everyone for their elaborate feedback and patience.

I know this won't fully satisfy the suggestions offered, but there's been some good news.

I have 3x 230 watt panels on my front porch, which gobbles up the sun rise.
I've got 2x 230 watt panels on my roof top, which gobbles up sun through the day.
Recently, I added 3x more panels (which has been stored in the shed. They were going to go on the roof...but I ended up putting them on the back room roof).
These 3x 230 watt panels gobble up the sun from mid day and evening.
When the sun slides over the house in the afternoon, the house shades over the 3x front porch panels.

I've noticed a major improvement from adding these 3 extra panels + beginning to follow some of your advice.

I spent the last few days trying to follow your advice, slowly, so I could be as accurate as possible.

The first thing I did was unplug all the batteries from the whole system.

Everyone recommended I focus on the Trojan batteries.
There are 8 of them.
They are 6v each.
So, I have them in pairs, in series, making them "4 batteries in 12v".

Once all the batteries were unplugged, I plugged just 1 set of trojan (6v x 2 = 12v).

Note: with all 8 (or 4) trojan + 2 moto master + 3 pro point, the batteries, the battery monitor commonly floated around 12.5 or 13, but quickly dropped down to 11 when the sun went down.

After 1 day, of just one trojan plugged in (and not running anything off the battery...just let it charge), it was in the 14's. 14.1, 14.2, 14.3 etc.
I haven't seen 'em that high in a very long time.

I plugged each set of trojan for 1 day.
Monday: 1st set of trojans
Tuesday: 2nd set
Wednesday: 3rd set
Thursday: 4th set.

By the end of each day, each battery made it to the 14's.

I didn't even bother with the moto master or pro point.

By the next morning, it was still well into the 14's.

I then plugged in 2 sets of trojans, and it stayed in the 14's.
The next day, I plugged 3 sets...it stayed in the 14's.
The next day, all 4 sets, it stayed in the 14's, getting as high as 14.6.

With this encouraging boost in numbers,
I gave a test, plugging in the fridge for a day and a couple washing machine loads.

By evening time, it was still well into the 14's.

I haven't checked off all the items suggested in the list.
I'm getting there slowly.

While the test is starting to show much improvement in the numbers...I'm also flirting with an idea.

I'm highly considering selling all the batteries and purchasing one of those extra large LifePo4 240ah lithium batteries.

I'm also wondering (along with the other suggestions I'm planning on trying in the coming days), should I upgrade my mttp solar controller.

I'm pretty sure I have an entry level mttp.

I'm not necessarily asking for more feedback, I'm merely reporting back my findings after a week of slowly following your advice and the strong results I've experienced.

So thank you.

Good deal! Glad to hear those came up and carry through the night. Stop there and enjoy those Trojans!

Sounds like you have 5 panels in the sun at any given time. Are you reaching the limit on the controller?