Are my batteries even charging?

[JeremyG]

I've got 5x 230 watt panels on the roof.
They're feeding into a EAsun 80A mppt controller.

I've got 8x 6v trojan batteries.
They're connected together in series, in groups of 2 to make 4x 12v.
I've got 2x 12v moto master batteries (they're new/1 year old)
I've got 3x pro point batteries (also new/1 year old).

So, that's 9 12v (flooded) batteries all connected in parallel (black to black to black and red to red to red).

Every morning, the V (volts?) Is usually in the very high 11.8-11.9.
On a good day in south Ontario, Canada...like today, it's super sunny.
It didn't take long for that 11.9 to get to 13v.

I've done 1 load of laundry, this morning, powered by the solar and my kitchen fridge has been plugged in, since I saw the V reach 12.5.

Everyday, whether I plug something into the solar or not...it starts in the high 11's.
It'll go up to 13 or a little higher, as the sun feeds the panels.
Then, as noon turns to evening and the sun slowly vanished behind the horizon, the 13.x slowly drops down to 12.5 and eventually rests at 11.8 or 11.9 as I start conserving solar energy.

Someone said I should let the batteries charge for a full week..and it'll consistently stay at the 13 as the batteries are full.


I tried that a couple weeks ago.
I didn't plug anything into the solar and this keeps happening.
Starts around 11.9
Gets to 12.5-13.5 by mid day and gently floats back down to 11.8-11.9 by bed time... And repeat.

I want to be able to plug my fridge in, full time and maybe have 2 or 3 days of reserve power for small things like charging devices or powering a TV during the day.
But... every night, the V goes down to 11.8-11.9.

What am I doing wrong?

Thank you for your help and patience with a guy just learning about this solar stuff.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I've got 5x 230 watt panels on the roof.
They're feeding into a EAsun 80A mppt controller.

80A * 14.5V = 1160W max
5*230W = 1150W

good match.

I've got 8x 6v trojan batteries.
They're connected together in series, in groups of 2 to make 4x 12v.

2S4P

I've got 2x 12v moto master batteries (they're new/1 year old)
I've got 3x pro point batteries (also new/1 year old).

So, an additional 5 12V in parallel with the trojans?

So, that's 9 12v (flooded) batteries all connected in parallel (black to black to black and red to red to red).

So, all batteries have enough electrolyte to at least cover the plates? When known to be at a low SoC, it is important to ensure you not overfill them. They should be filled just enough to cover the plates. Fluid level will rise as they charge. Once fully charged, they can be topped off.

Having a bank comprised of 9 strings and total of 13 elements means you have 54 potential points of failure in those 13 packages and a very high sensitivity to connection quality and method.

Your battery capacity also matters. If the sum of your battery capacity is > 800Ah, you likely have insufficient solar for proper charging.

Every morning, the V (volts?) Is usually in the very high 11.8-11.9.

Which suggests a very low SoC.

On a good day in south Ontario, Canada...like today, it's super sunny.

Even in Canada, "super sunny" is not necessarily great; however, if you have your panels tilted at at least 45° or so, due south and unshaded from sunrise to sunset, you should be able to get about 5kWh/day or about 417Ah/day.

If 37.2A is the maximum you see going to the battery at high noon, this could indicate you have panels that aren't working, wiring or connection problems. You should use a clamp DC ammeter to measure the current on each panel. They should be passing about the same amount of current.

It didn't take long for that 11.9 to get to 13v.
I've done 1 load of laundry, this morning, powered by the solar and my kitchen fridge has been plugged in, since I saw the V reach 12.5.

Everyday, whether I plug something into the solar or not...it starts in the high 11's.
It'll go up to 13 or a little higher, as the sun feeds the panels.
Then, as noon turns to evening and the sun slowly vanished behind the horizon, the 13.x slowly drops down to 12.5 and eventually rests at 11.8 or 11.9 as I start conserving solar energy.

Someone said I should let the batteries charge for a full week..and it'll consistently stay at the 13 as the batteries are full.


I tried that a couple weeks ago.
I didn't plug anything into the solar and this keeps happening.
Starts around 11.9
Gets to 12.5-13.5 by mid day and gently floats back down to 11.8-11.9 by bed time... And repeat.

I want to be able to plug my fridge in, full time and maybe have 2 or 3 days of reserve power for small things like charging devices or powering a TV during the day.
But... every night, the V goes down to 11.8-11.9.

What am I doing wrong?

Thank you for your help and patience with a guy just learning about this solar stuff.

You aren't going to like this.

You need to sort through the hodge podge of batteries comprising your bank. A single failed cell in your bank could sabotage the entire thing.

1. Completely disconnect all loads from the batteries.
2. Charge for three days.
3. Once charge current has tapered below 10A, terminate charge.
4. Disconnect all parallel battery strings from each other (you can leave the 6V Trojans in 2S for 12V, just not in parallel), so you have 9 separate "12V" batteries.
5. Two hours after charging has terminated, check and record the voltage of all 13 batteries (8 6V and 5 12V).
6. Check and record all 54 specific gravity readings (use proper technique).
7. Let sit overnight.
8. Re-check and record the voltage of all 13 batteries.

The difference between #5 and #8 as well as the specific gravity of the individual cells will give you insight into where the problems are.

 

[seneysolar]

I've got 5x 230 watt panels on the roof.
They're feeding into a EAsun 80A mppt controller.

I've got 8x 6v trojan batteries.
They're connected together in series, in groups of 2 to make 4x 12v.
I've got 2x 12v moto master batteries (they're new/1 year old)
I've got 3x pro point batteries (also new/1 year old).

So, that's 9 12v (flooded) batteries all connected in parallel (black to black to black and red to red to red).

Every morning, the V (volts?) Is usually in the very high 11.8-11.9.
On a good day in south Ontario, Canada...like today, it's super sunny.
It didn't take long for that 11.9 to get to 13v.

I've done 1 load of laundry, this morning, powered by the solar and my kitchen fridge has been plugged in, since I saw the V reach 12.5.

Everyday, whether I plug something into the solar or not...it starts in the high 11's.
It'll go up to 13 or a little higher, as the sun feeds the panels.
Then, as noon turns to evening and the sun slowly vanished behind the horizon, the 13.x slowly drops down to 12.5 and eventually rests at 11.8 or 11.9 as I start conserving solar energy.

Someone said I should let the batteries charge for a full week..and it'll consistently stay at the 13 as the batteries are full.


I tried that a couple weeks ago.
I didn't plug anything into the solar and this keeps happening.
Starts around 11.9
Gets to 12.5-13.5 by mid day and gently floats back down to 11.8-11.9 by bed time... And repeat.

I want to be able to plug my fridge in, full time and maybe have 2 or 3 days of reserve power for small things like charging devices or powering a TV during the day.
But... every night, the V goes down to 11.8-11.9.

What am I doing wrong?

Thank you for your help and patience with a guy just learning about this solar stuff.

Have you ever done an equalization charge?

What setting is your charge controller on? 13.5 is not high enough for a full charge on lead acids. Not having specifics on your batteries, 14.8 would be bulk charge for Trojan FLA.

How old are the trojans? Id be tempted to reduce the battery group down to only the trojans and do an equalization charge 16.2v @ 4 hours.

Sunshine eggo gave some good advice but it means you wont have power for a few days. The nice part about parallel batterys is you can remove one and still operate. Id take the approach of charging and checking 1 of the 12v's at a time while removed from the system.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Have you ever done an equalization charge?

What setting is your charge controller on? 13.5 is not high enough for a full charge on lead acids. Not having specifics on your batteries, 14.8 would be bulk charge for Trojan FLA.

Good point.

How old are the trojans? Id be tempted to reduce the battery group down to only the trojans and do an equalization charge 16.2v @ 4 hours.

An equalization charge should never be done unless the batteries have completed a full charge cycle.

Sunshine eggo gave some good advice but it means you wont have power for a few days.

Very true.

The nice part about parallel batterys is you can remove one and still operate. Id take the approach of charging and checking 1 of the 12v's at a time while removed from the system.

A benefit of the trojans is they can all be measured individually. If the 6V are all within 0.1V of each other, they are probably fine, and can operate without breaking them down. I would confirm their voltages at both low and peak 12V voltages. If they are off significantly, I'd evaluate for re-stringing, example:

Trojan strings
1: 6.05
2: 6.20

3: 6.08
4: 6.19

I'd rebuild the strings by stringing 1 with 3 and 2 with 4.

 

[JeremyG]

Thank you for your feedback.

I just tried to look up how to equalize a battery.

I thought it meant to charge the batteries one by one so they all equal charge.
That would take me days...but if it worked.

I'm guessing that's not what you meant.
The YouTube videos I looked up aren't my much help.

Do you have any educational videos which really "dumb it down", because I don't understand the fancy terms you experienced guys use.

I've only been using solar power for a year.

I'm really new at this.

 

[seneysolar]

Start with your charge controller, does it have Equalization function?

Id remove the 12v batteries and only try this on the trojans remaining in the system. I dont know enough about your other batteries to give direction. But overall theory is the same for lead acids.

Make sure they are properly serviced with water. Do a full charge into float mode.

Then Equalization is done by raising the voltage well above normal charging. In your case trojan wants 16.2v for 4 hours. Your CC should have a way to activate equalization. If this is the first time doing it, its worth keeping an eye on them for overheating. Its normal for them to get warm, but a bad battery will get hot during this process. Our shop uses 120 as a threshold, at 120F we stop, let cool and try again.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

^ agree.

Remove all but the trojans.

Check all 4 Trojans 6V voltages when you hit the peak voltage for the day. Let us know what you get.

Again, I want to stress that equalization charges should not be run on batteries that have not completed a full charge cycle.

Before running equalization it is important to confirm fluid level and specific gravity following a full charge.

 

[JeremyG]

I've got an EAsun mppt.
I don't think it has an equalizer option in the menu.
The menu is not user friendly.
I have it set up for FLD.
I have the max V set up for 16 and the lowest V for 10.6 (as suggested by another YouTube video I saw, a year ago, when I was using PWM).

I keep seeing these blue smart solar controllers on the van life videos.
My set up is very small.
5 active panels (230watts each).
I'm about to add 3 more (the same 230watt), which have been sitting in the shed all winter.

I've been really tempted to get one of these smart solar controllers.

The idea of using my cellphone via Bluetooth to control it is unappealing...but I'd do it if I could get these batteries working the way I've expected them to work for the last year.

The batteries/solar set up works great during the day. We can plug all sorts of stuff to the solar.
But, once the sun goes down...we can barely plug in our cellphones in over night.

I've been trying to check the water levels on the 1st week of each month, keeping them full.
I thought I had to have it FULL...but if you're telling, I just need enough water to cover the plates??

I'll have to look into how to do the equalization.
I've been tempted to look up an electrician in the area (who's experienced with solar).

 

[seneysolar]

I've got an EAsun mppt.
I don't think it has an equalizer option in the menu.
The menu is not user friendly.
I have it set up for FLD.
I have the max V set up for 16 and the lowest V for 10.6 (as suggested by another YouTube video I saw, a year ago, when I was using PWM).

I keep seeing these blue smart solar controllers on the van life videos.
My set up is very small.
5 active panels (230watts each).
I'm about to add 3 more (the same 230watt), which have been sitting in the shed all winter.

I've been really tempted to get one of these smart solar controllers.

The idea of using my cellphone via Bluetooth to control it is unappealing...but I'd do it if I could get these batteries working the way I've expected them to work for the last year.

The batteries/solar set up works great during the day. We can plug all sorts of stuff to the solar.
But, once the sun goes down...we can barely plug in our cellphones in over night.

I've been trying to check the water levels on the 1st week of each month, keeping them full.
I thought I had to have it FULL...but if you're telling, I just need enough water to cover the plates??

I'll have to look into how to do the equalization.
I've been tempted to look up an electrician in the area (who's experienced with solar).

Can you view the bulk, absorb and float settings? Lets start there

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

Can you view the bulk, absorb and float settings?

I think that SCC uses somewhat different terms ("average charge", "float charge"). It looks identical to the one that I have, just that mine is labelled "AmpInvt".
Their manual is here:

https://cdn.shopifycdn.net/s/files/1/0107/2031/3407/files/AP-MPPT_EN_-50-100A.pdf?v=1696840584

 

[seneysolar]

I think that SCC uses somewhat different terms ("average charge", "float charge"). It looks identical to the one that I have, just that mine is labelled "AmpInvt".
Their manual is here:

https://cdn.shopifycdn.net/s/files/1/0107/2031/3407/files/AP-MPPT_EN_-50-100A.pdf?v=1696840584

View attachment 205672

Wow that manual sucks.
I do see where it mentions muti stage charging including equalization.


Getting it to activate, i have no idea, i imagine it will do it automatically at some point.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

Wow that manual sucks.
I do see where it mentions muti stage

Tell me about it. I use this unit with LiFePO4.
I just set everything to 28V and it works well.

 

[JeremyG]

I've tried the manual of the EAsun...it wasn't much help.
My PWM was easier to understand...and it only has 2 buttons.
I've been tempted to set up the camera and tripod to show you guys what the menu looks like.
I'm a bit lost as to how to optimize it for my set up.

 

[seneysolar]

I've tried the manual of the EAsun...it wasn't much help.
My PWM was easier to understand...and it only has 2 buttons.
I've been tempted to set up the camera and tripod to show you guys what the menu looks like.
I'm a bit lost as to how to optimize it for my set up.

Looks like its mostly automatic, but battery type might be the most important for your case. Based on this page seems like "liquid battery" is supposed to be flooded lead acid?

If you're not already buying a new charge controller, id start here with just the trojans, see how they do.
Take a pic of the screen while charging throughout the day and post.

 

[JeremyG]

I'm interested in replacing the mttp controller.
I really like a screen on the device...but if I have to go Bluetooth...I'm more interested in functionality.
Can I get it to do what I need it to?
I keep seeing models like this (blue solar charge controller) on the van life videos.

They're more expensive, around $500.

I have a simple set up with simple needs.
But, if I have;
8x 230watts of panels (1840 watts)

4x 12v Trojans
2x 12v moto master
3x 12v pro point
So, 9x 12v batteries all together.
They all have 100amp hours, I think.

So, I'm looking at about 900 amp hours?
The solar set up works great during the day, in optimal conditions.
My only issue right now is, why won't they retain a charge, as the sun goes down?

So, if I have to replace my charge controller...

What do you recommend?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I have a simple set up with simple needs.
But, if I have;
8x 230watts of panels (1840 watts)

The issue is that you have a large amount of solar for 12V, so you need at least 100A.

2X 100/50 controllers each with 4 panels on them would capture about 1450W or the 1840W.

My only issue right now is, why won't they retain a charge, as the sun goes down?

No. your "only issue" is that you have a horrible hodge podge of batteries, and you don't take the diagnostic steps we recommend to try and troubleshoot what's wrong.

Examples:

Remove all but the trojans.

Check all 4 Trojans 6V voltages when you hit the peak voltage for the day. Let us know what you get.

Before running equalization it is important to confirm fluid level and specific gravity following a full charge.

You need to sort through the hodge podge of batteries comprising your bank. A single failed cell in your bank could sabotage the entire thing.

1. Completely disconnect all loads from the batteries.
2. Charge for three days.
3. Once charge current has tapered below 10A, terminate charge.
4. Disconnect all parallel battery strings from each other (you can leave the 6V Trojans in 2S for 12V, just not in parallel), so you have 9 separate "12V" batteries.
5. Two hours after charging has terminated, check and record the voltage of all 13 batteries (8 6V and 5 12V).
6. Check and record all 54 specific gravity readings (use proper technique).
7. Let sit overnight.
8. Re-check and record the voltage of all 13 batteries.

The difference between #5 and #8 as well as the specific gravity of the individual cells will give you insight into where the problems are.

I haven't seen a single voltage reading or a single specific gravity reading. This means you have ZERO interest in actually figuring out what is wrong. There's a very good chance that every one of your batteries is junk due to poor maintenance and bad management, but you don't give a shit about trying to figure anything out... let's just add more panels and replace controllers.

Bye.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

No. your "only issue" is that you have a horrible hodge podge of batteries

I tend to agree. I have the same 80A charge controller since 10/1/2023 and zero problems with it. I have 12 x 260W panels which is 3.1kW = over paneling. It worked really well during winter.
However, I do have 3 identical Redodo 24V200Ah batteries, purchased around 1/2023. That's a big difference.

 

[seneysolar]

If you really want to get everything from your panels--- 1840watts @ 12v is 154 amps of potential charge current.

You will likely want to split this up between 2 charge controllers.

If you like Victron and want a screen you could get a pair of 150/85 smart solar mppt and get the plug in displays, (extra $35 each)

Otherwise a pair of Outback flexmax 80

Smaller controllers will simply harvest less, this technique is over paneling

Someone will likely chime in with an Amazon special but that recommendation wont come from me. Not a fan, and you are experiencing why that is just by trying to read the manual.

I do think you have some battery issues going on. Cranking this much energy into bad batteries will likely burn one or if youre lucky just be a waste of money on the controller side. Spend some time or money and figure out your batteries. Your ultimate goal should be batteries of the same type-brand-ah-voltage, charging at the correct voltage profiles and properly monitored.

 

[JeremyG]

1. Completely disconnect all loads from the batteries.

(Does this mean disconnect the black and red wires from the batteries?)

1. Charge for three days.

(I'm sure this is going to make some eyes roll...Please excuse the inexperienced question...how am I supposed to charge the batteries without the controller?

1. Once charge current has tapered below 10A, terminate charge.

Here's where I'm lost. I don't have one of those small voltage meter things which electricians and mechanics have. I don't know what tool to use (or how to use it) to test this.

1. Disconnect all parallel battery strings from each other (you can leave the 6V Trojans in 2S for 12V, just not in parallel), so you have 9 separate "12V" batteries.

Disconnect all batteries in parallel, so I have 9 separate, 12v batteries. Mmmmk

1. Two hours after charging has terminated, check and record the voltage of all 13 batteries (8 6V and 5 12V).

I'll need a hand held multi-meter thing for that right? And learn how to use it?

1. Check and record all 54 specific gravity readings (use proper technique).

(I have no idea what that means...54 specific gravity reading?)

1. Let sit overnight.
2. Re-check and record the voltage of all 13 batteries.

I have some homework to do.
Going into solar, December 2022, all my education on the matter was from watching van life and tiny homes.
They made it seem so simple.
Plug the panels into the controller.
Plug the controller into the battery.
Plug the battery into the inverter.
Plug stuff into the inverter/power your electronics.

The things you guys are describing is way beyond that. Things I've never heard before, not mentioned at all in these van life videos.

I thank you for the humility, but I'm still really confused.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

They made it seem so simple.
Plug the panels into the controller.
Plug the controller into the battery.
Plug the battery into the inverter.
Plug stuff into the inverter/power your electronics.

It actually IS that easy, or it can be. It certainly was for me when I built my 24V system.

My second system, a 48V with batteries that display temperature, status, voltage etc.. I had some hiccups. Nothing major.

Basically the 24V system is of the "ignorance is bliss" kind.