Asia (no neutral) 220 volt system 48 volt battery - grid tied with 2 hots and a ground but no neutral

[gbeuchel]

I have not been able to find any videos or product suggestions for a 220 volt grid tied system (48 volt battery back-up) that does not use a neutral. I have 2 hots and a ground but no neutral. Any suggestions? If Prowse did a video on this kind of system I cant find it. Any suggestions as to videos and/or products to consider would be appreciated.

 

[justoneguy]

I think the component needed is an 'isolation transformer".
It splits into 120 volt.
I didn't look, but there is probably a split phase 120/120 also

 

[400bird]

Most of Victron's range is single phase and would work for you. What you need should be widely available, it just isn't discussed here because most members are in the US on split phase.

 

[timselectric]

I have not been able to find any videos or product suggestions for a 220 volt grid tied system (48 volt battery back-up) that does not use a neutral. I have 2 hots and a ground but no neutral. Any suggestions? If Prowse did a video on this kind of system I cant find it. Any suggestions as to videos and/or products to consider would be appreciated.

Any single phase 230v inverter should work fine.
But if you truly don't have a neutral. You may have to make sure that the inverter doesn't have a N/G bond.
A split-phase inverter could be a solution. You just wouldn't use the neutral. And the bonding wouldn't be a problem for the grid.

 

[hwy17]

Do you really have no black or blue conductor? Some places use single phase with a grounded conductor that's not a neutral.

If it is two ungrounded conductors then as has been said, any single phase inverter will still work as long as there's no NG bond.

 

[gbeuchel]

I have not been able to find any videos or product suggestions for a 220 volt grid tied system (48 volt battery back-up) that does not use a neutral. I have 2 hots and a ground but no neutral. Any suggestions? If Prowse did a video on this kind of system I cant find it. Any suggestions as to videos and/or products to consider would be appreciated.

I am not trying to create a 120 volt system. I am trying to use the products available to have a 220 volt system which I think is 2 phases not 1 but I could be wrong about that. All I know is that it is a 220 volt system with 2 hots and a ground. No neutral. I guess I need 2 inverters (one for each leg) but every inverter or system I have seen needs a neutral. Am I missing something here?

 

[gbeuchel]

I have not been able to find any videos or product suggestions for a 220 volt grid tied system (48 volt battery back-up) that does not use a neutral. I have 2 hots and a ground but no neutral. Any suggestions? If Prowse did a video on this kind of system I cant find it. Any suggestions as to videos and/or products to consider would be appreciated.

I am not trying to create a 120 volt system. I am here in asia and I need to use their system which is 220volt and 2 phase (i think). What inverters do I use?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I have not been able to find any videos or product suggestions for a 220 volt grid tied system (48 volt battery back-up) that does not use a neutral. I have 2 hots and a ground but no neutral. Any suggestions? If Prowse did a video on this kind of system I cant find it. Any suggestions as to videos and/or products to consider would be appreciated.

I think you're confusing folks. Even single phase 220/230/240 uses a neutral. Neutral/Ground is 0V and hot/line is 220/230/240V.

I think what you're trying to say is that you don't have a center tapped neutral, i.e., you're not split phase.

Google says you need 220VAC, 60Hz single phase.

Victron has been mentioned, but any inverter that can be programmed to 220V single phase and 60Hz output should work fine. Victron has been mentioned, and I'm sure there are many others.

 

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[gbeuchel]

I think you're confusing folks. Even single phase 220/230/240 uses a neutral. Neutral/Ground is 0V and hot/line is 220/230/240V.

I think what you're trying to say is that you don't have a center tapped neutral, i.e., you're not split phase.

Google says you need 220VAC, 60Hz single phase.

Victron has been mentioned, but any inverter that can be programmed to 220V single phase and 60Hz output should work fine. Victron has been mentioned, and I'm sure there are many others.

I am 50 hertz in asia not 60 like usa. Will that inverter still work?

 

[Shimmy]

Where specifically? Thailand almost universally is grounded with a neutral and hot; I can't speak to the Philippines from personal experience. Older upcountry installations in Thailand should have a GFCI/RCD if they are near t solidly grounded.

@crossy is an expert in Thailand and might be able to recommend equipment and give advice on evaluating what kind of service you have.

 

[timselectric]

Definitely need to confirm what your grid supplies. Before we can help you with options.
I have never heard of an ungrounded service that also provides a ground wire.
It's an oxymoron.

 

[hwy17]

Definitely need to confirm what your grid supplies. Before we can help you with options.
I have never heard of an ungrounded service that also provides a ground wire.
It's an oxymoron.

IT grounding system provides a locally earthed ground in the house and no grounded conductor from the utility. Norway is one country that does it on older houses, utility only gives you 3 phase conductors 230v between phase ungrounded. Capacitance keeps them all somewhat even potential to ground.

It's not out of the question that somewhere in all of "asia" has given dwellings 2 out of 3 phase conductors. But I agree it's unlikely.

 

[Rednecktek]

I think you're confusing folks. Even single phase 220/230/240 uses a neutral. Neutral/Ground is 0V and hot/line is 220/230/240V.

Just as a note, ship power is 2 hots and no neutral as well. If there is any current on the ground it's a "Bad Thing" and I have to spend days tracking it down. The most common culprit is power strips that have a N-G bond inside them. It does exist. I've heard rumors about inverters that put half the voltage out on the N leg on here, have to spend some quality time with the Search function but I seem to remember those were all 120v so may not be very useful.

And yeah, it always takes me a right minute to remember how house wiring works when I get off the boat.

@gbeuchel You're likely going to have to find a Marine inverter if it is truly a 110-110-0 system as that's how we do AC on ships. It's gonna be pricy because they add $50 per letter for $M$a$r$i$n$e $G$r$a$d$e.

I know for a fact that Victron has equipment that does this, it's what we use on the ships for our radio battery backup systems and such, but you gotta buy $V$i$c$t$r$o$n equipment.

By the time you're done there's likely a first born child and a bill of sale involved, but as I understand it the child doesn't have to be yours.

 

[timselectric]

IT grounding system provides a locally earthed ground in the house and no grounded conductor from the utility. Norway is one country that does it on older houses, utility only gives you 3 phase conductors 230v between phase ungrounded. Capacitance keeps them all somewhat even potential to ground.

It's not out of the question that somewhere in all of "asia" has given dwellings 2 out of 3 phase conductors. But I agree it's unlikely.

Absolutely , many systems are out there. Especially in remote areas.
Until we know for sure what they have. It's impossible to recommend what will work.
If they want a grid-tied system. The power company should be able to tell them what they will accept.
(A list of approved equipment)

 

[Batronca]

I am 50 hertz in asia not 60 like usa. Will that inverter still work?.
Yes .it does, Deye inverter 220/230v, 50/60hertz 1 phases . Work for Asia and EU

 

[crossy]

@gbeuchel where are you??

From what you describe you have a 3-phase 3-wire supply which has 220V phase-phase. The source will be a star (wye) connected transformer with the star-point grounded (this would be the neutral in a 4-wire system but isn't brought out) so your RCD / GFI / ELCB (or whatever your local terminology calls it) will work.

As noted, if you are anywhere but the Philippines (which is 220V 60Hz) pretty well any inverter from the 220/230V world will work just fine.

Check your local marketplace (Lazada??) for an absolute plethora of inverters of all flavours and qualities.

If still worried, contact the manufacturer, IF they reply then that bodes well for support in future.