Batrium vs Seplos BMS ?

[solardad]

Looking to expand my overall storage.

Currently have a 2 x 2p16s (64 280ah cells for a total of 57kw) setup and leverage a Watchmon4 from Batrium for the past couple of years. Have had no issues but Batrium recently discontinued the the cell monitors that I use....so now i am starting to think about alternatives.

I like the idea of the Seplos MASON kit and BMS combo since I also have run out of space where my current bank sits and will need to come up with a new location. The MASON kit would better suited for the potential new location.

• Are there any Seplos BMS users out there that were former Batrium users?
• How good is the new Seplos BMS, v16 / 10E, does it address the earlier issues folks had?
• Recently came across a review from Andy at OffGridGarage YT channel and was at first turned off by the Seplos BMS until he confirmed some of tests / setups that he was performing were NOT supported by Seplos. So I now do not give his review much weight.
• Anyone leverage the MASON DIY kit with multiple packs? I would have a total of 5, 4 for existing cells and one more for expansion.

Thanks

 

[jtvt]

Batrium recently discontinued the the cell monitors

I thought the blockmons were now "made to order", not necessarily discontinued. The website says order fulfilment is 1-2 weeks

I have the same watchmon setup, except 4 strings. I have 5 spare blockmons in case of failure. Maybe just buy some extra blockmons and don't change things until you have to.

 

[solardad]

I have already given it some thought but they are costly and my relationship with them has been love / hate. There support side seems to have been slipping the last few years. So the question is how much longer are they going to be around and should i be investing more in a system that was orphaned..? In short I think it is time to evaluate other options.

 

[toms]

I have already given it some thought but they are costly and my relationship with them has been love / hate. There support side seems to have been slipping the last few years. So the question is how much longer are they going to be around and should i be investing more in a system that was orphaned..? In short I think it is time to evaluate other options.

If you want good technical support, SEPLOS is the last place I’d be looking.

My Batrium BMS purchased in 2012 is still going strong, and I would wager will last longer than a SEPLOS made this year.

 

[LydMekk]

Acc. to OffGrid Garages latest videos Seplos is not very good. Their own BMSs don't even work well together.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I use Batrium WM4 for my powerwall w/112 longmons currently. It's been 4.5 years and has been easy to expand my powerwall year after year - which is key for me. Adding another 28 packs/longmons this year.

I wonder if you can use longmons mixed with blockmons in the network of blockmons are not available. I'm not sure, but it could be the difference is physical shape rather than being incompatible network/software wise. Ask Batrium? I just got in 28 longmons last month - so they're still making them.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I'm pretty pleased with my Batrium WM5 that's been up and running for about 6 months. I'll be deploying a MM8 for the second battery when it's finished. The Victron instructions were flat out wrong, so I went through quite a painful commissioning of the WM5 and getting it to interface with my GX.

It has some annoying peculiarities, but I'm happy with it.

 

[houseofancients]

Acc. to OffGrid Garages latest videos Seplos is not very good. Their own BMSs don't even work well together.

running a non supported / advised by manufactorer setup , using different versions of the bms , and different cell sizes, which have been heavily used and are known to be of less than ideal ( b grade, bloated , runners and different internal resistance

there are plenty of folks running these without issue ( me included )

 

[RSahan]

Battrium only does 500ma balancing right? Why not go for JK BMS? Simple and elegant. Zero reasons to go with Seplos over JK if you don't need inverter comms

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Battrium only does 500ma balancing right? Why not go for JK BMS? Simple and elegant. Zero reasons to go with Seplos over JK if you don't need inverter comms

A longmon - https://wiki.batrium.com/en/product/cell-monitor/longmon - can do "Bypass current 0A to 2A (typically 1A)". You put 1 longmon on each parallel 'pack'. You can choose the amps (and max temp) for longer life. I use a little less than typical and can do touch up balances on 112 x 260ah packs in 4'ish days in auto-level mode (least aggressive) and move them 30-40mv worth closer.

It's the K9 system - https://wiki.batrium.com/product/cell-monitor/cellmate-k9 - that is "Auto-Level (balancing) function at 500mA with activity LED on each cell" 500mA range. It says "Capable of 6 Ah/day balancing adjustment for each cell". However, I don't think you can customize the amps or temp like you can for the mons.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Battrium only does 500ma balancing right?

If you're running a battery that needs more than 500mA of balancing, you have a shit battery.

Why not go for JK BMS? Simple and elegant.

Neither. There's been quite a few posts concerning inconsistent performance and poor support. Current limit is a factor as well. My Batrium current limit is not defined by the BMS.

 

[RSahan]

If you're running a battery that needs more than 500mA of balancing, you have a shit battery.

Well, what if I have a shit battery? JK helps to keep it in balance where your Batrium will struggle.

Neither. There's been quite a few posts concerning inconsistent performance and poor support. Current limit is a factor as well. My Batrium current limit is not defined by the BMS.

I'm pretty sure that there have been quite a few posts about Batrium too

 

[solardad]

Acc. to OffGrid Garages latest videos Seplos is not very good. Their own BMSs don't even work well together.

Yeah - I watched a few of his videos on Seplos and was not impressed with his review. It was a little confusing on what he setup to test vs what was supported by Seplos. He would once in awhile throughout the reviews mention what he was testing was not supported by Seplos… ironically in the last video a number of viewers called his out on his crappy / unfair testing setup and he responded that the system would work fine if he stuck with Seplos recommended setup, same model BMS, etc.. someone posted a review of Seplos that did follow the recommended setup and they had a positive experience.

 

[solardad]

I use Batrium WM4 for my powerwall w/112 longmons currently. It's been 4.5 years and has been easy to expand my powerwall year after year - which is key for me. Adding another 28 packs/longmons this year.

I wonder if you can use longmons mixed with blockmons in the network of blockmons are not available. I'm not sure, but it could be the difference is physical shape rather than being incompatible network/software wise. Ask Batrium? I just got in 28 longmons last month - so they're still making them.

You do have an impressive setup..! I believe we have chatted on the other forum on some Batrium items in the past with Wolf. Nice to see you here. I thought about buying a bunch of extra cell moms for back ups / future expansion but I realized my current setup location is space confined, no more room. That is one of the main reasons I was thinking a Seplos kit with the server form factor, built in BMS and the ability to control each pack independently vs one massive pack. Not sure if I am lucky or just the “run of the mill lifepo4 experience” but my 64 cells have been fine the past 2+ years. I like the idea that IF I have a cell/pack issue I can isolate that pack and single BMS vs having the bring down the whole system / half of the BMS, in fact I am not sure what Batrium would do if I just turned off one whole section….

 

[solardad]

Battrium only does 500ma balancing right? Why not go for JK BMS? Simple and elegant. Zero reasons to go with Seplos over JK if you don't need inverter comms

I have learned to keep my pack within the lifepo4 knees and as a result no balancing is necessary. If I push the cells above 3.45 I start to have some runners but anything above 3.375 is really not much in terms of additional storage so I keep my voltages on the lower side. I would preferring not having to balance and keep down my cycle count vs the extra few kWh of storage.

 

[houseofancients]

Yeah - I watched a few of his videos on Seplos and was not impressed with his review. It was a little confusing on what he setup to test vs what was supported by Seplos. He would once in awhile throughout the reviews mention what he was testing was not supported by Seplos… ironically in the last video a number of viewers called his out on his crappy / unfair testing setup and he responded that the system would work fine if he stuck with Seplos recommended setup, same model BMS, etc.. someone posted a review of Seplos that did follow the recommended setup and they had a positive experience.

that would be me

 

[solardad]

running a non supported / advised by manufactorer setup , using different versions of the bms , and different cell sizes, which have been heavily used and are known to be of less than ideal ( b grade, bloated , runners and different internal resistance

there are plenty of folks running these without issue ( me included )

@houseofancients i assume you mean Seplos. Can you tell me a little about your setup and how long you have been running?

 

[houseofancients]

@houseofancients i assume you mean Seplos. Can you tell me a little about your setup and how long you have been running?

been running it for a while now, initially started out with calb 150ah plastic encased cells, once they were done for, moved to 304 eve cells

started with a diy cell build, fiddled a bit around with rs 485 ( version d of the bms) and version c (canbus) because my inverters at that time didnt support canbus ( voltronics 8000 max).
even fiddled with some code in a raspi to pay man in the middle.

been running 4 16s packs, untill i desided i wanted it to look nice a neat , so started moving to the mason kits (about to commision my 3rd kit).

have seperated my kits and diy calb packs though , so no packs comms and inverter comms between them as seplos was quite strong in their statement not to do so.

inverters i now run are sunsynk 12kw 3 phase in a pair

its all documented here on the forum

 

[solardad]

been running it for a while now, initially started out with calb 150ah plastic encased cells, once they were done for, moved to 304 eve cells

started with a diy cell build, fiddled a bit around with rs 485 ( version d of the bms) and version c (canbus) because my inverters at that time didnt support canbus ( voltronics 8000 max).
even fiddled with some code in a raspi to pay man in the middle.

been running 4 16s packs, untill i desided i wanted it to look nice a neat , so started moving to the mason kits (about to commision my 3rd kit).

have seperated my kits and diy calb packs though , so no packs comms and inverter comms between them as seplos was quite strong in their statement not to do so.

inverters i now run are sunsynk 12kw 3 phase in a pair

its all documented here on the forum

great - I'll search out some of your threads for more details.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

If you're running a battery that needs more than 500mA of balancing, you have a shit battery.

Yes and further, a cell or group of cells that won't stay balanced on it's own for many cycles should be replaced OR there's extreme load OR some other factor going on. I'm lithium-ion but the principle applies to LifePo4 as well.

This idea that constant balance is needed comes up a lot - so I started tracking the max difference between my 112 packs by month. This chart tracks minimum and maximum difference in millivolts between all 112 packs during a month. The max difference varies a bit over the charge/discharge curve because there are different cell types.

At the end of Jun, I added a new battery to the bank and balanced things to the 40mv - 70mv max difference range over the charge/discharge cycle. This is fine for me since I operate between 3.5v and 4.0v.

Then I disabled balance - it's not needed and wastes power....

You can see that things have drifted over 6 months by 20mv. This is what I'd call a healthy set of packs - e.g. ongoing, daily balance is not needed.

In another couple of months it will reach 100mv max difference and I'll do a touch-up balance.