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Battery discharge at 30 %

frankz66

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Hello everyone, it happened to me to bring in discharge to about 35% in short 11,80 volts my AGM accumulation From 330 to . I noticed that after a day of charging from the panels I accumulated 2,400 watts towards the batteries. It seems that this lower discharge has done well as the voltage based on the evening use that I make of it is slower to go down by volts while remaining more constant. Some say that lead-acid batteries must be discharged to 50% to leave them in life longer but they also say that every now and then it should still go down to 20% ...
 
I use apple translate. I wanted to say that I discharged the batteries to 30% and this gave me the feeling that the batteries have benefited as the voltage under load is more stable and the consumption a little slower to go down .. someone says that every now and then they should be discharged a little more than usual.
 
I use apple translate. I wanted to say that I discharged the batteries to 30% and this gave me the feeling that the batteries have benefited as the voltage under load is more stable and the consumption a little slower to go down .. someone says that every now and then they should be discharged a little more than usual.

"Someone" is wrong.
 
It is. Lead-acid batteries stay healthier and last longer the more they are kept fully charged and the less they are discharged. These rules were true many decades before you and I were born, and they remain true to this day.
Ok . The soc is approximate and we know it. If my batteries in the morning with a load of a few watts give me 11.90 is it a bit of a dangerous threshold or not?
 
Ok . The soc is approximate and we know it. If my batteries in the morning with a load of a few watts give me 11.90 is it a bit of a dangerous threshold or not?

Generally, if the battery is loaded, I would not be too concerned by 11.90V.

One time only: I would terminate the load at 11.90V, disconnect the battery and allow it to rest for a couple hours to confirm the voltage has risen to 12.05V+

That is an artifact from NiMh batteries that had a memory effect that needed to be reset by over discharge. LFP does not have that so as @sunshine_eggo says, "someone" is wrong.

lead-acid.
 
Generally, if the battery is loaded, I would not be too concerned by 11.90V.

One time only: I would terminate the load at 11.90V, disconnect the battery and allow it to rest for a couple hours to confirm the voltage has risen to 12.05V+



lead-acid.
Ok, I'm sure the batteries with the cable disconnected would definitely go up. I give it for sure. You answered what I was asking and therefore thank you
 
Generally, if the battery is loaded, I would not be too concerned by 11.90V.

One time only: I would terminate the load at 11.90V, disconnect the battery and allow it to rest for a couple hours to confirm the voltage has risen to 12.05V+



lead-acid.
I ask you a question: having 3 agm batteries in parallel if during the months for example 6 months one fails, you replace it with an identical one. But being new with cycles equal to 0 so the youngest, what happens? Many say that batteries should be bought and installed at the same time.
 
OK a lead-acid could become a bit stratified and a moderately deeper discharge combined with a vigorous charging always seemed to help a bit capacity wise on my old golf batteries. Not that I think this would actually extend the life. If the flooded were on float service for a while that first cycle always seemed weak. And after a couple cycles would get back to normal.

Just my experience. Maybe there were other complicating issues.

Also had some AGM that always performed better after a strong charge cycle.
 
OK a lead-acid could become a bit stratified and a moderately deeper discharge combined with a vigorous charging always seemed to help a bit capacity wise on my old golf batteries. Not that I think this would actually extend the life. If the flooded were on float service for a while that first cycle always seemed weak. And after a couple cycles would get back to normal.

Just my experience. Maybe there were other complicating issues.

AGM

I ask you a question: having 3 agm batteries in parallel if during the months for example 6 months one fails, you replace it with an identical one. But being new with cycles equal to 0 so the youngest, what happens? Many say that batteries should be bought and installed at the same time.

The new battery will wear faster than if all three are new because it will handle a little more more then 1/3 the load

It will still last longer than the two older batteries.
 
OK a lead-acid could become a bit stratified and a moderately deeper discharge combined with a vigorous charging always seemed to help a bit capacity wise on my old golf batteries. Not that I think this would actually extend the life. If the flooded were on float service for a while that first cycle always seemed weak. And after a couple cycles would get back to normal.

Just my experience. Maybe there were other complicating issues.
Ciao e grazie per aver risposto . Infatti ho avuto la sensazione che se le batterie avessero avuto una spinta in più . Ripeto è solo una mia sensazione . Inoltre avevo notato che ieri sono andati in batteria quasi 2,400 w
 
AGM



The new battery will wear faster than if all three are new because it will handle a little more more then 1/3 the load

It will still last longer than the two older batteries.
So if in a solar storage configuration you start with example 4 batteries in parallel and after 1 year one of the 4 breaks and replaces it with an identical new one, this will immediately become as old as the others? If I understand correctly ...
 
Ciao e grazie per aver risposto . Infatti ho avuto la sensazione che se le batterie avessero avuto una spinta in più . Ripeto è solo una mia sensazione . Inoltre avevo notato che ieri sono andati in batteria quasi 2,400 w

Ti incoraggio a postare nella tua lingua madre. La traduzione di Google è stato il post più chiaro che tu abbia mai scritto. :)

So if in a solar storage configuration you start with example 4 batteries in parallel and after 1 year one of the 4 breaks and replaces it with an identical new one, this will immediately become as old as the others? If I understand correctly ...

No. Ho letteralmente detto che la nuova batteria sarebbe durata più a lungo delle vecchie batterie.
 
That is an artifact from NiMh batteries that had a memory effect that needed to be reset by over discharge. LFP does not have that so as @sunshine_eggo says, "someone" is wrong.
Thats nicads I believe. I went and looked to see if it was a nimh problem and found this which is interesting :

How the rumor started​

Satelite
The memory affect was first discovered in batteries used on satellites.
This idea did not come out of nowhere. NiCad batteries were used in satellites during the 1960s where their lives would follow a very exact pattern – recharging for 12 hours via solar panels and then discharging for 12 hours. The discharge and recharge patterns would be virtually identical every day and they would repeat this thousands of times as they orbited the earth.


Pensabene and Gould, two scientists working at GE, studied these batteries after they had been in use and noticed the voltage drop when they were discharged below the point when recharging would have normally started. In 1976 they published a paper called “Unwanted Memory Spooks Nickel Cadmium Cells” outlining their findings.


From there the myth took hold and almost any NiCad issue suddenly got blamed on memory effect.


Finding a real memory effect​


Widely ignored is that Pensabene and Gould also attempted to repeat the memory effect in the laboratory by subjecting NiCad cells to over 5,000 cycles of identical charge and discharge cycles but failed to see the same result that they had observed in used satellite batteries. A similar attempt in 1996 by scientists Sato, Arakawa and Kobayakawa also could not produce cells that exhibited the memory effect.


Despite this, many people still pointed to the memory effect as a shortcoming of Nickel Cadmium. General Electric attempted to correct this in a technical notice where they pointed out that in order to even have a remote chance of the memory effect occurring, three steps were required:


  1. The battery must be discharged to exactly 25% (+/- 1%) of its capacity
  2. The battery must then be recharged to exactly 100% and then the recharging must be cut off.
  3. This pattern must be repeated hundreds of times.

It is clear that there are very few real world applications, perhaps none, where such a situation would occur. Users of battery powered devices never discharge to exactly 25% hundreds of times and it is also common place for batteries to be overcharged (left charging even after they have reached 100%). This latter practice is even thought to clear any memory effects anyway.


General Electric, who for all intensive purposes started the rumor, has also stated “the idea of a memory phenomenon in nickel-cadmium batteries has been widely misused and understood …[and]… has become a catch-all ‘buzzword’ that is used to describe a raft of application problems”.


The unshakable myth​


Despite all that has been done to show the memory effect is not a real world issue, misinformation abounds. The Compact American Dictionary of Computer Words describes memory effect as “A property of NiCad Batteries in which the amount of charging they accept at one time fixes the maximum amount of charging they can accept in subsequent recharges”


Even a 2013 research paper looking at the memory effect in Lithium-Ion batteries starts with “Memory effects are well known to users of nickel–cadmium and nickel–metal-hydride batteries.”


In short, memory effect in all likelihood does not exist and even if it did, it occurs under such specific circumstances that the chances of it happening in any particular application are almost zero, if not zero.


It’s also worth noting that stories of the memory effect are not limited to NiCad. In 2013 Petr Novak at the Paul Sherrer Institute, working alongside Toyota Research Laboratories, claimed to have found a similar phenomenon in Lithium-Ion batteries. This has yet to be confirmed by other researchers.

Found it here : https://batteryguy.com/kb/knowledge-base/the-nickel-cadmium-memory-effect-fact-or-fiction/
 
Ti incoraggio a postare nella tua lingua madre. La traduzione di Google è stato il post più chiaro che tu abbia mai scritto. :)



No. Ho letteralmente detto che la nuova batteria sarebbe durata più a lungo delle vecchie batterie.
No uso google . Comunque mi spiace , colpa mia che l'inglese lo parlo pertanto ... dovrò fare un corso di lingua inglese !!!
 
Thats nicads I believe. I went and looked to see if it was a nimh problem and found this which is interesting :



Found it here : https://batteryguy.com/kb/knowledge-base/the-nickel-cadmium-memory-effect-fact-or-fiction/

I question the accuracy of that article. Most satellites are in low earth orbit and complete a cycle every 1.5 hours (45 min charge/45 min discharge). Even Geostationary satellites don't have a 12 on/12 off cycle as their orbit is so large, they get greater than 12 hours exposure.

I also think it's highly unlikely that they would be able to test batteries that had been in actual service. Nothing survives re-entry, but perhaps something came back in the shuttle bay... before it existed... :p

NiCd and NiMH. I have personally tested 10,000+ NiMH batteries and have 100% confirmation that there is a phenomenon that fits the "memory effect" description.

It is 100% real. it is pervasive with NiCd, and NiMH is dramatically less susceptible. It is more accurately described as "voltage depression." Temperature also plays a major role.

Low current overcharge - like leaving it in a trickle charger, AND short cycling, i.e., regular charge to less than 100% SoC and regular discharge to > 0% SoC causes a phase change at the terminals. The composition has a lower voltage potential and somewhat higher internal resistance. On the flip side, this short cycling also dramatically increases cycle life.

Nominal voltage is 1.2V. The nominal voltage of the other phase material is around 0.8V... which is ABOVE the 1.0V cut-off for NiMH, so this potential is never utilized. I long slow discharge below 0.8V consumes this capacity. Upon recharge, this proper phase is restored at the terminal and lost capacity is recovered. This is also commonly restored by repeated cycling, which "nibbles" away at this lower potential capacity.

No uso google . Comunque mi spiace , colpa mia che l'inglese lo parlo pertanto ... dovrò fare un corso di lingua inglese !!!

Il tuo inglese è infinitamente migliore del mio italiano, ma probabilmente non è un buon software di traduzione. Ancora una volta, ti incoraggio a postare nella tua lingua madre.
 
I question the accuracy of that article. Most satellites are in low earth orbit and complete a cycle every 1.5 hours (45 min charge/45 min discharge). Even Geostationary satellites don't have a 12 on/12 off cycle as their orbit is so large, they get greater than 12 hours exposure.

I also think it's highly unlikely that they would be able to test batteries that had been in actual service. Nothing survives re-entry, but perhaps something came back in the shuttle bay... before it existed... :p

NiCd and NiMH. I have personally tested 10,000+ NiMH batteries and have 100% confirmation that there is a phenomenon that fits the "memory effect" description.

It is 100% real. it is pervasive with NiCd, and NiMH is dramatically less susceptible. It is more accurately described as "voltage depression." Temperature also plays a major role.

Low current overcharge - like leaving it in a trickle charger, AND short cycling, i.e., regular charge to less than 100% SoC and regular discharge to > 0% SoC causes a phase change at the terminals. The composition has a lower voltage potential and somewhat higher internal resistance. On the flip side, this short cycling also dramatically increases cycle life.

Nominal voltage is 1.2V. The nominal voltage of the other phase material is around 0.8V... which is ABOVE the 1.0V cut-off for NiMH, so this potential is never utilized. I long slow discharge below 0.8V consumes this capacity. Upon recharge, this proper phase is restored at the terminal and lost capacity is recovered. This is also commonly restored by repeated cycling, which "nibbles" away at this lower potential capacity.



Il tuo inglese è infinitamente migliore del mio italiano, ma probabilmente non è un buon software di traduzione. Ancora una volta, ti incoraggio a postare nella tua lingua madre.
ok ti rispondo come desideri . Volevo aggiungere che sono in procinto di voler cambiare il mio accumulo abbastanza giovane . Mi ritrovo 3 batterie in parallelo la più vecchia ha 8 mesi le altre 2 3 mesi quindi 5 mesi più giovani . Considerato che le AGM come batterie al piombo sono discrete , non so se spendere altri 170 euro per avere 4 batterie da 110 A c100 12v quindi accumulare altri 1,286 kwh oppure cambio tutto e compro 1050 euro di batterie lifepo4 12,8 300 Ampere . chiaramente il vecchio accumulo o lo vendo oppure vorrei sfruttarlo e non so come ! Ho bisogno di un tuo parere su ciò che faresti tu . Grazie . quali delle due ?????
 

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Sono propenso a utilizzare ciò che ho il più a lungo possibile. Se il 170 per AGM aggiuntivo ti dà ciò di cui hai bisogno, lo farei e lo userei fino a quando non soddisfa più le mie esigenze e quindi aggiornerei.

Will ha dato alla Powerqueen una valutazione favorevole. La sua unica preoccupazione era la mancanza di protezione per la ricarica a bassa temperatura, che è un problema al di sotto di 0°C.

 
I question the accuracy of that article. Most satellites are in low earth orbit and complete a cycle every 1.5 hours (45 min charge/45 min discharge). Even Geostationary satellites don't have a 12 on/12 off cycle as their orbit is so large, they get greater than 12 hours exposure.

I also think it's highly unlikely that they would be able to test batteries that had been in actual service. Nothing survives re-entry, but perhaps something came back in the shuttle bay... before it existed...

NiCd and NiMH. I have personally tested 10,000+ NiMH batteries and have 100% confirmation that there is a phenomenon that fits the "memory effect" description.

It is 100% real. it is pervasive with NiCd, and NiMH is dramatically less susceptible. It is more accurately described as "voltage depression." Temperature also plays a major role.

Low current overcharge - like leaving it in a trickle charger, AND short cycling, i.e., regular charge to less than 100% SoC and regular discharge to > 0% SoC causes a phase change at the terminals. The composition has a lower voltage potential and somewhat higher internal resistance. On the flip side, this short cycling also dramatically increases cycle life.

Nominal voltage is 1.2V. The nominal voltage of the other phase material is around 0.8V... which is ABOVE the 1.0V cut-off for NiMH, so this potential is never utilized. I long slow discharge below 0.8V consumes this capacity. Upon recharge, this proper phase is restored at the terminal and lost capacity is recovered. This is also commonly restored by repeated cycling, which "nibbles" away at this lower potential capacity.



Il tuo inglese è infinitamente migliore del mio italiano, ma probabilmente non è un buon software di traduzione. Ancora una volta, ti incoraggio a postare nella tua lingua madre.

Nicads Ive had problems with but the nimh's never gave me any issues other than not holding a charge when stored for long periods. Love my lithium power tools because of this.
 
Sono propenso a utilizzare ciò che ho il più a lungo possibile. Se il 170 per AGM aggiuntivo ti dà ciò di cui hai bisogno, lo farei e lo userei fino a quando non soddisfa più le mie esigenze e quindi aggiornerei.

Will ha dato alla Powerqueen una valutazione favorevole. La sua unica preoccupazione era la mancanza di protezione per la ricarica a bassa temperatura, che è un problema al di sotto di 0°C.

Grazie mille . Quindi se ho capito bene , prendo un ultima batteria da 110 ampere , per sommarla alle 3 esistenti e tirare fino a quando sarà possibile ?
 

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