begin with phoenix 48/1200, add multiplus ii later?

[SoakedUp]

well then please make another suggestion that isn't the $1500 mulitplus 2. i didn't want to spend that much for a lot of features i don't need, but i can't find much of anything that meets my needs.

Victron Energy MultiPlus 2000 Watt 48 Volt Inverter & 25 Amp Battery Charger

Part Number: PMP482200100

www.solar-electric.com

For just about 2x the price of the pheonix you get a much more versatile product. A much more usable inverting limit, a AC battery charger, and a screw down terminal block to feed a load center or sub panel. As you grow your system you’ll appreciate the extra features that “you don’t need”

 

[defed]

View attachment 161972

Victron Energy MultiPlus 2000 Watt 48 Volt Inverter & 25 Amp Battery Charger

Part Number: PMP482200100

www.solar-electric.com

For just about 2x the price of the pheonix you get a much more versatile product. A much more usable inverting limit, a AC battery charger, and a screw down terminal block to feed a load center or sub panel. As you grow your system you’ll appreciate the extra features that “you don’t need”

one of the features that i don't need is the battery charger - haven't used it in 20 yrs, probably never will. i don't need a transfer switch. all i want is an inverter that's in the neighborhood of 3000w for $1k. seems if they removed all the bells and whistles, it would be doable, but doesn't seem it exists. not saying some of the other features of the MP2 wouldn't be useful at some point, but right now, i don't need it (or want to pay for it). i think i do like the screw down terminals better than the spring ones. not sure why i didn't look too closely at this model, probably because for another $500 i could get the 3k. interestingly, when i click the link, i don't get the special price, mine is $1056.55.

and really, the only thing keeping me from just getting the MP2 is the insane complexity of trying to figure out how to set the damn thing up. 4 different hook up devices all doing something different, needing a pc when they have a standalone unit that should be able to do it...it's making my head hurt.

 

[SoakedUp]

one of the features that i don't need is the battery charger - haven't used it in 20 yrs, probably never will. i don't need a transfer switch. all i want is an inverter that's in the neighborhood of 3000w for $1k. seems if they removed all the bells and whistles, it would be doable, but doesn't seem it exists. not saying some of the other features of the MP2 wouldn't be useful at some point, but right now, i don't need it (or want to pay for it). i think i do like the screw down terminals better than the spring ones. not sure why i didn't look too closely at this model, probably because for another $500 i could get the 3k. interestingly, when i click the link, i don't get the special price, mine is $1056.55.

and really, the only thing keeping me from just getting the MP2 is the insane complexity of trying to figure out how to set the damn thing up. 4 different hook up devices all doing something different, needing a pc when they have a standalone unit that should be able to do it...it's making my head hurt.

I think you have to be logged in to get the special price.I’ve bought from NAZ before so that’s probably why.

Again. The MP is 90% plug and play. You don’t have to adjust the settings of the stuff you say you’re not going to use anyways. Also both NAZ and places like currentconnected will preprogram the MP before they ship out, for you to your specific settings if you contact them. Then you don’t need to do anything other than connect battery and wire up the AC out. No pc required. Very simple.

 

[SoakedUp]

Also. If you start with the mp 48/2000. You can add another one later and wire them in parallel and do split phase. Giving you a 4000w inverter at 240v or 120.

 

[ChrisG]

Yes. Combining the units increases the overall output. The Pheonix acts like grid input. The multiplus allows for up to 50amps of grid ac input on top of whatever it’s able to invert from the batteries. So the 1000 watts from the pheonix will be on top of the 2400w from a 48/3000 multiplus giving you 3400w of usable inverting power from your battery bank. It’s definitely not cheaper than just going with a larger multiplus but it sounded like OP wanted cheap NOW. Not cheap overall. I didn’t mind spending the extra cash over the long run because I like the redundancy of multiple inverters. I can also use my 12/1200 pheonix for another use once I add my 48v system. I was never really looking to save money with my solar projects. It’s more just a hobby and a necessity at the same time since I don’t have grid power on my property.

@SoakedUp
Is the 50amp grid input plus 3000va to the AC output true? I thought it was only recommended to have 50a breaker on ac in and 50a on out?

 

[SoakedUp]

@SoakedUp
Is the 50amp grid input plus 3000va to the AC output true? I thought it was only recommended to have 50a breaker on ac in and 50a on out?

Yes. Screen shot from the MP 2000 manual. 3000 would be 20A on top of 50A for a total of 70A which is probably why they allow for 6awg cable on the AC terminals.

 

[ChrisG]

Yes. Screen shot from the MP 2000 manual. 3000 would be 20A on top of 50A for a total of 70A which is probably why they allow for 6awg cable on the AC terminals.

Interesting. From the install manual it shows 50a on output.

 

[SoakedUp]

Interesting. From the install manual it shows 50a on output.

Good catch. Very possible that the 48v version limits to 50a and doesn’t add the inverting power on top of the AC input current. See how the 12v and 24v limit is 75amp though. I’ve seen a couple of victrons products derate amp limits for 48v. Like their 100/20 mppt controller. The load output is 20amps for both 12/24v but only 1amp for 48v. I haven’t made the jump to the 48v version of their multiplus yet so i haven’t specifically read that models manual fully.

 

[SoakedUp]

Looks like it’s just the 48/3000 version that doesn’t add the input on to the inverter. But the 2k and 5k version does.

 

[ChrisG]

Looks like it’s just the 48/3000 version that doesn’t add the input on to the inverter. But the 2k and 5k version does.

View attachment 162167

Wow, that’s impressive for both 2k and 5k. I should have looked, was too focused on 3k. 137a is amazing combined on 5k. With a 50a generator on the AC input with the 5k, especially in split phase config, you could start just an about anything.

 

[defed]

I think you have to be logged in to get the special price.I’ve bought from NAZ before so that’s probably why.

Again. The MP is 90% plug and play. You don’t have to adjust the settings of the stuff you say you’re not going to use anyways. Also both NAZ and places like currentconnected will preprogram the MP before they ship out, for you to your specific settings if you contact them. Then you don’t need to do anything other than connect battery and wire up the AC out. No pc required. Very simple.

i'd still rather have a 3k inverter only, no bells, no whistles, 48v dc in, 120v ac out. nothing more, nothing less.....except it doesn't exist. the AIOs have a (presumably) decent inverter + all the other stuff, for $700...i'm sure they could make a nicer inverter only for a similar price. just like victron could cut out all the extras and offer an inverter only for $1k. apparently i'm the only one looking for one, no demand = no product.

 

[SoakedUp]

i'd still rather have a 3k inverter only, no bells, no whistles, 48v dc in, 120v ac out. nothing more, nothing less.....except it doesn't exist. the AIOs have a (presumably) decent inverter + all the other stuff, for $700...i'm sure they could make a nicer inverter only for a similar price. just like victron could cut out all the extras and offer an inverter only for $1k. apparently i'm the only one looking for one, no demand = no product.

They offer it. Just in 230v. You have to keep in mind, at least with Victron, their main demographic isn’t US based. Good luck with your search!

 

[740GLE]

i'd still rather have a 3k inverter only, no bells, no whistles, 48v dc in, 120v ac out. nothing more, nothing less.....except it doesn't exist. the AIOs have a (presumably) decent inverter + all the other stuff, for $700...i'm sure they could make a nicer inverter only for a similar price. just like victron could cut out all the extras and offer an inverter only for $1k. apparently i'm the only one looking for one, no demand = no product.

Take a look at samlex or other quality inverters.

IMO the extras of the charger bit doesn’t add that much, but agree if you don’t need it, its pointless.

 

[defed]

i had read somewhere that any inverter can be a charger, so you're right, that probably isn't adding much cost.

zonna has my outback, they say it's fixed (but it's over 10 yrs old now), so i'm either getting it back or using it as a trade in against something new. i have to call them today and see what they've got. he already quoted me on a MP2 earlier.

after talking to zonna again, i'm going to get my outback back. there's not a huge amount of downside - if is craps out again, they will still take it as trade in later....i would just be out some cash for the board i bought that they would have credited me for towards the new one. let's just hope it runs another 10 yrs w/o issue.

 

[defed]

interestingly, while he said victron was good, he said the outback is far better. he wasn't making any money off of telling me that and having me decide to have my old unit returned vs trading it in on the victron. though i was also considering trading in on a new outback, so maybe he was banking on that, but i doubt it. i'm just nervous that there is something else wrong w/ my old one that made it fail in the 1st place and it will fail again before long....guess we shall see...and i think i've detoured this thread way too far!

 

[SniperX]

Bluetooth works well. Or a Cerbo/CCGX.

If you end up going with a MP2, buy the one I have listed in the classifieds lol.

I actually haven’t used the Phoenix inverters, but I have seriously considered one to keep in my Tesla. Pretty neat range of models they have, I’ve seen videos of people using them for their smaller loads at night etc.

That is what I wanted to do. I wanted to run a refrigerator at night with the smaller, more efficient Phoenix instead of my power-hungry Growatt. I watched Will's video and could not figure out how he was doing it but I guess just an extension cord. I bought the 12v version 1200 for my RV just to power wifi hookup, etc. I did not have an inverter in this camper. Everything was DC. Any links to the videos? I just don't think it can communicate with my Eg4 batteries....

 

[Watts Happening]

That is what I wanted to do. I wanted to run a refrigerator at night with the smaller, more efficient Phoenix instead of my power-hungry Growatt. I watched Will's video and could not figure out how he was doing it but I guess just an extension cord. I bought the 12v version 1200 for my RV just to power wifi hookup, etc. I did not have an inverter in this camper. Everything was DC. Any links to the videos? I just don't think it can communicate with my Eg4 batteries....

I don't believe the Phoenix line can communicate with anything at all. It's simply an inverter that provides power as needed. That said, I haven't read the spec sheets, I just thought it would be neat to have one in the car. I've actually gone a different route as I already had a little Anker all in one gizmo similar to an ecoflow

 

[defed]

Take a look at samlex or other quality inverters.

IMO the extras of the charger bit doesn’t add that much, but agree if you don’t need it, its pointless.

i had briefly looked at the samlex models (at least the ones commonly offered by the main retailers) and didn't see anything that interested me....then i stumbled across the evo-4248sp. 48/4200, split phase. it's not exactly the 'budget' model i was after, and not any cheaper than (2) 2k MPs mentioned earlier, but a bit simpler any way. but i'll keep looking around and just hope my outback lasts several more yrs.

 

[GooseF16]

the phoenix has a vE direct port and can in fact communicate with VRM..but its not super accurate, but it adds to the pot. it doesn't give you a block separately but the AC load adds to the total aC load, I have a 12/375 that runs my starlink, when I configured a standalone shunt as a SOC it separates out the vampire load from the conversion load.. so for example the shunt picks up 45 watts AC and about 22 watts DC.. this 22 watts is the total DC load of the electronics.. a Cerbo, a shunt, the vampire load of the phoenix, and the display.. 22 watts requires about 500 Watt hours of production per day to keep up from your solar or source.. I did it strictly for the efficiency of the vampire load of about 7 watts vs more for bigger.. but I gotta admit my buddy's sister setup to mine his inverter idles at a very low wattage.. he has the original 3k multi so in your decisions the efficiency is can be deceiving.. idle wattage is cut and dry, but the true way is to slap a shunt on it and measure it.