begin with phoenix 48/1200, add multiplus ii later?

[Watts Happening]

I want to purchase a Phoenix 48/1200 to run a mini split off grid. What components would be necessary to do only this? What components would improve this system? I'd like to start super simple, both due to financial constraints, and because starting simple and then adding on bells and whistles later feels less overwhelming at this point in my learning trajectory.

Later, I would like to purchase a Multiplus ii, either 3000 or 5000, depending on what I end up needing as I see how things go in my tiny house. There seems to be conflicting information on the forums re: whether I can pair a phoenix with a Multiplus. If I can indeed do this, what extra equipment would I need? (A solar rep told me I'd need two separate systems?!)

Will has a video in which he seems to add a phoenix inverter to a Multiplus ii ecosystem, so the rep's statement confuses me.

I am very new to solar, so I hope my questions aren't too silly...

Jen

Aside from cost, which clearly is something to consider, is there any reason you’re not just springing for the Multiplus now?

While it’ll be more money up front, it’ll save you money in the long run and I don’t believe they would really be complementary products.

 

[SoakedUp]

one of the only things i don't like about the P 48/1200 is the AC out is only a plug socket type connection rather than terminals. that and the output power is a bit low, but for a (fairly) inexpensive building block and backup that's not a huge issue.

I took a 10g ext. cable. Cut off about 4ft with the male end. Wired the line, neutral, and ground into the MP ac in and plugged the other end into the Pheonix. Worked pretty good and very simple.

48v doesn’t make a lot of sense with the pheonix because 1000w is pretty low amperage. But when using 12v, 1000 watts is considered by some the max continuous power that should be used.

If I were only doing 48v I would definitely start with the multiplus and skip the pheonix 48/1200

 

[defed]

I took a 10g ext. cable. Cut off about 4ft with the male end. Wired the line, neutral, and ground into the MP ac in and plugged the other end into the Pheonix. Worked pretty good and very simple.

48v doesn’t make a lot of sense with the pheonix because 1000w is pretty low amperage. But when using 12v, 1000 watts is considered by some the max continuous power that should be used.

If I were only doing 48v I would definitely start with the multiplus and skip the pheonix 48/1200

yea, it's simple, but just doesn't seem like a quality, long term connection.

what difference is low amperage? lower amps should be a good thing, no? the output is the same regardless.

 

[SoakedUp]

yea, it's simple, but just doesn't seem like a quality, long term connection.

what difference is low amperage? lower amps should be a good thing, no? the output is the same regardless.

I’ve had my refrigerator powered up using this type of connection for over 30 years. Seems to work just fine long term.

I was saying that typically a low wattage inverter in the 1000 watt range for a 48v system seems pointless because you can get a higher wattage inverter in the 3-5000 watt range and still be in an acceptable amperage range. Not the case for 12v.

 

[defed]

I was saying that typically a low wattage inverter in the 1000 watt range for a 48v system seems pointless because you can get a higher wattage inverter in the 3-5000 watt range and still be in an acceptable amperage range. Not the case for 12v.

i see....but not for $450 LOL that's my only reason for looking at it as a stop gap measure.

 

[Dooug]

I like the idea of a smaller phoenix inverter to run my constant loads (600-800 watts, 400w at night) and the ability to have a multiplus take the big loads when they happen. I had consider putting the multiplus on a sub panel for the garage and a run a couple extra plugs in to the house for AC or mini splits.

Current inverter is a 3500va midnight from 2007 and the efficiency is terrible while driving less than a thousand watts. Or I could flip the midnight to a sub panel for heavy loads, but like the idea of everything working together.

 

[defed]

I like the idea of a smaller phoenix inverter to run my constant loads (600-800 watts, 400w at night) and the ability to have a multiplus take the big loads when they happen. I had consider putting the multiplus on a sub panel for the garage and a run a couple extra plugs in to the house for AC or mini splits.

Current inverter is a 3500va midnight from 2007 and the efficiency is terrible while driving less than a thousand watts. Or I could flip the midnight to a sub panel for heavy loads, but like the idea of everything working together.

i hadn't looked that close to see if it's more efficient using the phoenix, i do believe it's consumption is a little lower. depending in the state of the other one, not sure if it would be in idle, standby, eco, it might double the draw from the inverters themselves.

 

[740GLE]

Idle consumption of the MP and the Phoenix is very close, both are excellent.

 

[defed]

Idle consumption of the MP and the Phoenix is very close, both are excellent.

right, just saying that w/ both, it will almost double. but that may be still be less than most others by themselves.

one thing i'm still very confused on is, can you change settings on the MP2 without a PC?

 

[Watts Happening]

right, just saying that w/ both, it will almost double. but that may be still be less than most others by themselves.

one thing i'm still very confused on is, can you change settings on the MP2 without a PC?

Bluetooth works well. Or a Cerbo/CCGX.

If you end up going with a MP2, buy the one I have listed in the classifieds lol.

I actually haven’t used the Phoenix inverters, but I have seriously considered one to keep in my Tesla. Pretty neat range of models they have, I’ve seen videos of people using them for their smaller loads at night etc.

 

[defed]

Bluetooth works well. Or a Cerbo/CCGX.

If you end up going with a MP2, buy the one I have listed in the classifieds lol.

I actually haven’t used the Phoenix inverters, but I have seriously considered one to keep in my Tesla. Pretty neat range of models they have, I’ve seen videos of people using them for their smaller loads at night etc.

i see that you can use a cerbo, but then it's almost like you still have to use VEconfig, which is only on a PC....i think? i don't know why they can't make it a little more simple! there's the mk3, the dongle, the cerbo, victronconnect, veconfig, vrm.....so over whelming! lol

the phoenix actually seems less efficient. the MP2 says 96% and the phoenix only 92%....but i wonder if there's a curve....ie running the MP2 at 500w is less efficient than 2400w?

i've seen the one you have listed. it's not the UL one, is it?

 

[SoakedUp]

i see that you can use a cerbo, but then it's almost like you still have to use VEconfig, which is only on a PC....i think? i don't know why they can't make it a little more simple! there's the mk3, the dongle, the cerbo, victronconnect, veconfig, vrm.....so over whelming! lol

the phoenix actually seems less efficient. the MP2 says 96% and the phoenix only 92%....but i wonder if there's a curve....ie running the MP2 at 500w is less efficient than 2400w?

i've seen the one you have listed. it's not the UL one, is it?

PC is required to make the majority of changes on MP. You can change AC input limit and charge limit with cerbo but that’s about it. I find it really frustrating also that a PC is require to change settings. The cerbo should allow full control.

 

[Watts Happening]

i see that you can use a cerbo, but then it's almost like you still have to use VEconfig, which is only on a PC....i think? i don't know why they can't make it a little more simple! there's the mk3, the dongle, the cerbo, victronconnect, veconfig, vrm.....so over whelming! lol

the phoenix actually seems less efficient. the MP2 says 96% and the phoenix only 92%....but i wonder if there's a curve....ie running the MP2 at 500w is less efficient than 2400w?

i've seen the one you have listed. it's not the UL one, is it?

I don’t think it is, my understanding is the only difference is the wire box size.

 

[defed]

I don’t think it is, my understanding is the only difference is the wire box size.

i believe that is correct, but for 'compliance' and peace of mind, i'd rather have it.

i'm not sure i want to go victron now if i can't do much of anything w/o a PC...need to decide soon as zonna is testing my outback so i need to decide if i want my 10 yr old unit back which could have further age related failures soon or trade it in against a new model.

 

[Watts Happening]

i believe that is correct, but for 'compliance' and peace of mind, i'd rather have it.

i'm not sure i want to go victron now if i can't do much of anything w/o a PC...need to decide soon as zonna is testing my outback so i need to decide if i want my 10 yr old unit back which could have further age related failures soon or trade it in against a new model.

Probably not a bad call there. However I really do think Victron is a smart way to go, but I’m sure Outback and the like make a fine product too.

I’ve never once had an issue with any Victron product that wasn’t one I created.

I’ve been able to make the required changes on simple 120v systems with a Bluetooth connection and their little “smart dongle”. Don’t quote me, but it has seemed pretty fully featured.

Most places you buy Victron through will program it for you. I know both Current Connected and Battle Born do so, I imagine others as well. Easy to get a cheap PC just in case. If you ever need to borrow the programming cord just shoot me a message, no skin off my back.

 

[defed]

Probably not a bad call there. However I really do think Victron is a smart way to go, but I’m sure Outback and the like make a fine product too.

I’ve never once had an issue with any Victron product that wasn’t one I created.

I’ve been able to make the required changes on simple 120v systems with a Bluetooth connection and their little “smart dongle”. Don’t quote me, but it has seemed pretty fully featured.

Most places you buy Victron through will program it for you. I know both Current Connected and Battle Born do so, I imagine others as well. Easy to get a cheap PC just in case. If you ever need to borrow the programming cord just shoot me a message, no skin off my back.

my outback is about 10 yrs old and i've only used it lightly, so i was a little annoyed when it gave up the ghost. i sent it to zonna and they fixed it, and are testing it, and will either send it back or i can trade it in. they do offer victron, not sure if they program it. from the settings listed, i don't know as if i need to change any/many things, i still need to learn what a few things do...and if i wanted to run 2 like the OP asked, i may need to change things down the road. there's probably nothing that can be changed on the phoenix. my brother has windows PCs so i guess i could do it there. it's stills so confusing...they make it sound like you can do stuff on the web interface, but then it's like you still need VEconfig. i'm sure it's not too difficult once you get into it, but trying to figure it out before hand is a nightmare. i don't want an MP2 and find out i can't get it to do what i want because i don't have the proper computer tools.

 

[SoakedUp]

i believe that is correct, but for 'compliance' and peace of mind, i'd rather have it.

i'm not sure i want to go victron now if i can't do much of anything w/o a PC...need to decide soon as zonna is testing my outback so i need to decide if i want my 10 yr old unit back which could have further age related failures soon or trade it in against a new model.

Almost all of victrons smart devices like mppts , chargers, smart shunts, and even the pheonix with a Bluetooth dongle you can adjust fully with your phone or tablet. The multiplus is the only device that needs a pc to make the finer/advanced adjustments. You can still make some adjustments without a PC but things like the absorption and float voltage for the charger (can still be set with the dip switches), assistants, and other features require a Ethernet connection to pc.

 

[defed]

i'll have to watch the OGG video again to see what settings he is changing to make it work and if i can make those changes w/o a PC.

i'm not sure if the 48/1200 is going to be big enough any way. as a emergency backup, sure, i can control and limit the loads, but as a temp 'full time' option, it would be cutting it close.

 

[SoakedUp]

i'll have to watch the OGG video again to see what settings he is changing to make it work and if i can make those changes w/o a PC.

i'm not sure if the 48/1200 is going to be big enough any way. as a emergency backup, sure, i can control and limit the loads, but as a temp 'full time' option, it would be cutting it close.

I wouldnt consider the pheonix for 48v.

 

[defed]

I wouldnt consider the pheonix for 48v.

well then please make another suggestion that isn't the $1500 mulitplus 2. i didn't want to spend that much for a lot of features i don't need, but i can't find much of anything that meets my needs.