Blue Smart v Charge Controller

[Beavo]

As you can see by my setup here I have the Blue Smart charger and an MPPT 100|50.
These are talking to each other via VE.Smart networking.

It's a very cloudy day here in Bristol so there isn't much solar being produced, however....

With the smart charger on the CC rarely goes above 1 watt (although it shows 14 watts because I'd just turned the smart charger off and on again.

When I turned off the smart charger the CC went up to about 35 watts.
The energenie in the top left obviously showed 0 watts.

When I turned the smart charger back on the CC then went down to 14 watts and the energenie fluctuated up and down between 5 and 100 watts(ish).

My question is, which piece of equipment takes priority when deciding on charging?, and can I make it so that the CC takes priority?

I hope all that made sense.


Cheers

 

[Beavo]

Just for reference, here's a screenshot of the CC when I turned the Smart charger off.


Cheers

 

[Beavo]

Just had another look.
It's even worse.
(Although I have got the TV on now)

 

[MiSh]

You're in float mode so your batteries are most likely full. Your load, if you have one, is running off solar whenever you turn the a/c charger off. The CC will show that load. Also, I'm just guessing, but could be the setting on your a/c charger is probably not exactly the same as your CC and they are going back and forth starting their charging cycle based upon you turning them off and on.

 

[Beavo]

You're in float mode so your batteries are most likely full. Your load, if you have one, is running off solar whenever you turn the a/c charger off.

Yes the batteries should be full.
So I would hope that whatever the inverter uses would be replaced by the CC first then backed up by the Smart charger if whatever the CC was producing was insufficient.

I could just keep turning the smart charger off but as I understand it, it kind of defeats the object of having it.

I thought that was the point of these units "talking" to each other.

Am I wrong for thinking that the CC should have priority?

If it carries on like this, the cost of running the smart charger will far outweigh any cost saved by using solar.

Cheers

 

[MiSh]

I do not use Victron's VE network, but was searching at their site and ran across a page on their Smart Battery Sense hardware. They apparently state the synchronized charging works only for their solar chargers?

"Synchronised charging

Pairing two or more SmartSolar chargers in VE.Smart Networking, enables synchronised charging. This improves the charge efficiency and battery life."

 

[Q-Dog]

While VE Smart networking lets chargers talk to each other to work as one, I don't know of a way to turn off one device.

 

[MiSh]

Deleted. I see you have both chargers in network.

 

[Q-Dog]

4. VE.Smart Networking Product Compatibility

www.victronenergy.com

They will coordinate charge states so they go into bulk, absorption and float together, and they should respect charge limits if you set them, but I know of no way to make them turn off one device only.

 

[Brucey]

Yes the batteries should be full.
So I would hope that whatever the inverter uses would be replaced by the CC first then backed up by the Smart charger if whatever the CC was producing was insufficient.

I could just keep turning the smart charger off but as I understand it, it kind of defeats the object of having it.

I thought that was the point of these units "talking" to each other.

Am I wrong for thinking that the CC should have priority?

If it carries on like this, the cost of running the smart charger will far outweigh any cost saved by using solar.

Cheers

Ve.smart allows for coordination of the charge steps amongst chargers, but doesn't allow you to set solar priority like you are hoping for. Pretty sure you'd need a multiplus/Quattro or similar to do what you are looking for, I e enable battery charging from AC at x voltage etc.

To do similar with an IP22 you'd need to use a smart plug and set some logic such that it turns on if voltage of bank drops below X using a sensor?

 

[Beavo]

Thanks for all your replies.
To clarify my thinking on this.

I was under the impression that the CC would be active until no solar was being generated then the Smart charger would kick in when the batteries reached 85% to prevent the batteries going below that.
I've read and watched so many posts and videos about it that I can't remember where I read/saw it described like that.

That would make perfect sense to me.

The way it seems to be working at the minute is that that the Smart charger is working permanently to keep the batteries at 100% so the CC thinks nothing needs to be let through.

I basically have a posh battery charger which is using 220 watts to power a TV and monitor using a total 160 watts.

I've removed the VE smart communications from both units now as it's clearly doing nothing.

Or am I doing something wrong here?

Cheers

 

[Q-Dog]

Why not leave the smart charger unplugged from the mains unless needed?

 

[Beavo]

Why not leave the smart charger unplugged from the mains unless needed?

I could do that but I just assumed that it would be more beneficial to have that backup for the batteries.

My wife and I go on very long tours abroad so it was reassuring to think that the house could run on solar and be backed up with the smart charger.

I'm not sure what the VE Smart Communication is there for if it's not able to communicate in the way I described above.

Cheers

 

[Brucey]

Thanks for all your replies.
To clarify my thinking on this.

I was under the impression that the CC would be active until no solar was being generated then the Smart charger would kick in when the batteries reached 85% to prevent the batteries going below that.
I've read and watched so many posts and videos about it that I can't remember where I read/saw it described like that.

That would make perfect sense to me.

The way it seems to be working at the minute is that that the Smart charger is working permanently to keep the batteries at 100% so the CC thinks nothing needs to be let through.

I basically have a posh battery charger which is using 220 watts to power a TV and monitor using a total 160 watts.

I've removed the VE smart communications from both units now as it's clearly doing nothing.

Or am I doing something wrong here?

Cheers

Now that they are no longer connected via ve. smart, you could set lower charge settings on the ip22 versus the 100/50. That way it will only kick in once the SCC is no longer charging and the voltage of the battery bank drops.

 

[Beavo]

Now that they are no longer connected via ve. smart, you could set lower charge settings on the ip22 versus the 100/50. That way it will only kick in once the SCC is no longer charging and the voltage of the battery bank drops.

That's basically what I assumed it would do.

I'll look for a way to do that.

It would be nice if I used some of the stored battery power before it kicked in.

Cheers

 

[Brucey]

I could do that but I just assumed that it would be more beneficial to have that backup for the batteries.

My wife and I go on very long tours abroad so it was reassuring to think that the house could run on solar and be backed up with the smart charger.

I'm not sure what the VE Smart Communication is there for if it's not able to communicate in the way I described above.

Cheers

It's mostly to allow for multiple Victron SCCs to all be at the same stage of charging. One of them becomes the master and the others follow. So if you have two or more, they coordinate.

For the ip22 and other AC chargers, it's more likely you'd use ve.smart to connect to a smart battery sense to get low voltage charge protection for lithium and remote voltage sensing.

 

[Beavo]

For the ip22 and other AC chargers, it's more likely you'd use ve.smart to connect to a smart battery sense to get low voltage charge protection for lithium and remote voltage sensing.

That makes perfect sense to me, which is what I thought it would do.
Cheers

 

[Brucey]

That makes perfect sense to me, which is what I thought it would do.
Cheers

Ignore the ve.smart capability. Looks like you have the SCC set to float at 13.5V

Set the ip22 to charge at 13.2 or a lower number for example. Then once solar production stops battery will drop down to 13.2 and IP22 will start to charge. It won't take the bank to 100% due to this, but it should be sufficient to keep the bank at at given charge level if loads are minimal/zero

Looks like you have at least two 280Ah batteries so I'm not sure what actually voltages you'll need to use to get effective cycling of a significant amount of the available capacity.

 

[Beavo]

Ignore the ve.smart capability. Looks like you have the SCC set to float at 13.5V

Set the ip22 to charge at 13.2 or a lower number for example. Then once solar production stops battery will drop down to 13.2 and IP22 will start to charge.

I haven't set them to anything, they're both as they came out of the box. (Other than change them to LiFePo4).

I'll do as you suggest with the IP22.

Makes me nervous altering settings but I'll give it a go.

I had just set up a smart plug to turn it on 2 hours after sunset and turn off at sunrise but I'll bin that for now.

I like your suggestion as that's what I thought it would do in the beginning.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Beavo]

Ignore the ve.smart capability. Looks like you have the SCC set to float at 13.5V

Set the ip22 to charge at 13.2 or a lower number for example. Then once solar production stops battery will drop down to 13.2 and IP22 will start to charge.

Sooooooo....
What figure do I have to change here?


This is why I get nervous!
Cheers