Campervan 24V 280AH LiFePO4 3 x 370W solar panels
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Here in the US we don't have many personal trucks with extra axles(I've never seen one). We also have a lot of truck camper options to fit most trucks and a good supply of heavy duty trucks. For example, I have a RAM 3500 dually which handles a Lance truck camper very well. We've gone up mountain roads and over some very poorly maintained dirt roads with no issues. I knew there were some truck campers in Australia but I didn't realize how limited the supply there is until I looked it up just now.
On my last camping trip I did see an Australian made caravan with the entire rooftop covered in solar panels and the truck towing it also had a platform with solar panels. I wish I had taken pictures.
Have you seen this video? Maybe something like that would work for you.
Great to see a DIY panel slider. The creative juices are starting to flow...
Unless you can find a cheaper source on the MPPTs and get 2 of them that are synchronized?
I spent the day firstly doing some sort of electrical audit. Then I revisited the A/C notes I had and fell down the rabbit hole. Several points come up. I would only need a 5,000 BTU aircond. With good insulation this will be ample. Water is the enemy. A slightly undersize A/C will dehumidify the air and make the van cooler. An oversize A/C will make the van clammier. The compressor will cycle on and off thus using less power. However I am going down the right track. 1500w of solar seems to be the mark. The 280 AH LiFePO4 24v will do the job sufficiently. The 370w panels make good sense. So it comes to the format that I install them. 4 panels would just be there. The original 5 is better and a better install.
We come back to the 3 primary panels and the 2 slide outs.
Owenfi can you please explain the synchronization? Is this two identical MPPTs with the same settings? At this stage this seems the better course.
We come back to the 3 primary panels and the 2 slide outs.
Owenfi can you please explain the synchronization? Is this two identical MPPTs with the same settings? At this stage this seems the better course.
I have two Victron 100/50 solar charge controllers. It works fine with both of them active. I don't know that they talk to each other, but the charging has always looked good.
Super interested in this thread as I am looking to do the same. I can't decide how to charge my battery. My current thoughts are that 7kWh is a lot of power. Adding an air conditioner would need a whole lot more if I want to end the day with (near) fully charged batteries. As for the air conditioner, you also have to be aware of the condense water and noise. I am personally leaning towards a mini split system. I have done camper van in the late 70's and all I needed was a small light bulb. In hot day's I would park in the shade and travel with the weather. Now I a married, I need to have luxury or risk a divorce. However, I really enjoy learning new things and love to see what you finally end up doing and your findings.
I don’t 100% know how to configure it but the Victron app appears to be really good.
I’ll attach a couple screenshots of playing around in demo mode inside the app.
I think the gist of it is:
Get a controller with Bluetooth, “SmartSolar” line, they don’t need to be balanced so my first findings for your proposed system would be one each of 100|30 and 100|50.
Pair one (or maybe both first) in the app.
Create a “network” in the app with that item added
Add second SmartSolar to app and add it to the network as well.
Now they should “talk” to each other and switch to bulk/absorption/float at the same time.
I think this could work with bluesolar and dongles. It’s funny to me that BLUEsolar has BLUEtooth as optional. It might also work over ve.direct with a central controller such as cerbo gx?
I haven’t found it described in the manual yet but in the app demo mode:
And this diagram, though complicated, implied it is possible as well:
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/3-Phase-Quattro-system-with-Cerbo-GX-Touch-50-Blue-Nova-BN52V-690-36K-Smart-solar-MPPT's.pdf
I’ll attach a couple screenshots of playing around in demo mode inside the app.
I think the gist of it is:
Get a controller with Bluetooth, “SmartSolar” line, they don’t need to be balanced so my first findings for your proposed system would be one each of 100|30 and 100|50.
Pair one (or maybe both first) in the app.
Create a “network” in the app with that item added
Add second SmartSolar to app and add it to the network as well.
Now they should “talk” to each other and switch to bulk/absorption/float at the same time.
I think this could work with bluesolar and dongles. It’s funny to me that BLUEsolar has BLUEtooth as optional. It might also work over ve.direct with a central controller such as cerbo gx?
I haven’t found it described in the manual yet but in the app demo mode:
And this diagram, though complicated, implied it is possible as well:
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/3-Phase-Quattro-system-with-Cerbo-GX-Touch-50-Blue-Nova-BN52V-690-36K-Smart-solar-MPPT's.pdf
Next problem is the max voltage, if wiring in series, calculated here:
www.explorist.life
PowerXT 370:
3 panels in series @-40F -> 173V / 48A
2 panels in series @-40F -> 115V / 32A
So those panels (or the 400W, which I'm trying to source currently)
PowerXT 400:
3 panels in series @-40F -> 182V / 51A
2 panels in series @-40F -> 122V / 34A
will require heftier charge controllers with a higher max voltage (quite a bit spendier)
370:
3 panels in parallel @-40F -> 58V / 48A
2 panels in parallel @-40F -> 58V / 32A
400:
3 panels in parallel @-40F -> 61V / 51A
2 panels in parallel @-40F -> 61V / 34A
Seems like the 100|50 + 100|30 would more or less be okay, would drop a bit of power on the top end, but I'm guessing you don't see many days of -40 at high noon in Australia
(and I'd try to avoid Minnesota at those times too...)
The remaining problem is in parallel at 24V they might lose out on the long tail of charging in the morning/evening. Perhaps dangerous/ill-advised but a voltage controlled relay that could switch from parallel to series operation when the voltage is below a given threshold might be handy. Anyone know if such a thing exists off the shelf, or is it better to just go to 250V MPPTs?
Solar Charge Controller Calculator
www.explorist.life
PowerXT 370:
3 panels in series @-40F -> 173V / 48A
2 panels in series @-40F -> 115V / 32A
So those panels (or the 400W, which I'm trying to source currently)
PowerXT 400:
3 panels in series @-40F -> 182V / 51A
2 panels in series @-40F -> 122V / 34A
will require heftier charge controllers with a higher max voltage (quite a bit spendier)
370:
3 panels in parallel @-40F -> 58V / 48A
2 panels in parallel @-40F -> 58V / 32A
400:
3 panels in parallel @-40F -> 61V / 51A
2 panels in parallel @-40F -> 61V / 34A
Seems like the 100|50 + 100|30 would more or less be okay, would drop a bit of power on the top end, but I'm guessing you don't see many days of -40 at high noon in Australia
(and I'd try to avoid Minnesota at those times too...)The remaining problem is in parallel at 24V they might lose out on the long tail of charging in the morning/evening. Perhaps dangerous/ill-advised but a voltage controlled relay that could switch from parallel to series operation when the voltage is below a given threshold might be handy. Anyone know if such a thing exists off the shelf, or is it better to just go to 250V MPPTs?
Not sure if that will work in parallel though. The one amazon question pertaining to it says it's okay if the size is the same, but in our case it's not.
Might be fine to run things that don't sync, as long as they switch at the same points, but that could be hard in practice as I'm not really sure what happens when switching between charge phases in terms of the controller wanting to maintain voltage/current levels.
Thanks owenfi. The bluesolar 100/50 at $AUD350 and the 100/30 at $AUD250 is reasonable to me because the 3 + 2 panels is more practical for purpose. This is compable to the Epever. The PowerXT 400 look good.
I don't think that we would see -40F anywhere in Australia even in the middle of the night inside a freezer. We do see -5C in the desert at dawn. And we do have snowfields and Tasmania makes you use thermals and extra socks. I also will consider shipping across the ditch to New Zealand if the numbers stack up.
Cold weather is not an issue. The 3 primary panels will produce more power than I could use without the A/C running. In most cases that the other 2 awning panels are deployed they will be turned off. They will just provide some doorway shelter (they only extend out 3 feet past the van). If we are parked up and need an outside patio and shade, we will use a $100 cafe umbrella. The 2 awning panels will only be required when the A/C is required. Our movements will be avoiding the heat which is an impossible feat.
I will download the bluesolar data and research this synchronizing more.
I don't think that we would see -40F anywhere in Australia even in the middle of the night inside a freezer. We do see -5C in the desert at dawn. And we do have snowfields and Tasmania makes you use thermals and extra socks. I also will consider shipping across the ditch to New Zealand if the numbers stack up.
Cold weather is not an issue. The 3 primary panels will produce more power than I could use without the A/C running. In most cases that the other 2 awning panels are deployed they will be turned off. They will just provide some doorway shelter (they only extend out 3 feet past the van). If we are parked up and need an outside patio and shade, we will use a $100 cafe umbrella. The 2 awning panels will only be required when the A/C is required. Our movements will be avoiding the heat which is an impossible feat.
I will download the bluesolar data and research this synchronizing more.
See the document here, in the "parallel operation" section:
It claims only the 150/100 (which has VE.Can) supports syncronization; however it also says "Yes" to parallel operation for the others, so I think it's not too big a worry, I'd just be careful to match wire size/length/termination and settings. I suspect this means even with VE.Direct ports via a central controller it won't work. Perhaps the same for the bluetooth dongles (though in the app they can join a network, so it's possible, but I'm not optimistic).
If you can find the same size SmartSolar for a similar price (they are about 20-30 dollars more over here) those would be a simpler setup afaict, but if not, seems it should be fine.
It claims only the 150/100 (which has VE.Can) supports syncronization; however it also says "Yes" to parallel operation for the others, so I think it's not too big a worry, I'd just be careful to match wire size/length/termination and settings. I suspect this means even with VE.Direct ports via a central controller it won't work. Perhaps the same for the bluetooth dongles (though in the app they can join a network, so it's possible, but I'm not optimistic).
If you can find the same size SmartSolar for a similar price (they are about 20-30 dollars more over here) those would be a simpler setup afaict, but if not, seems it should be fine.
Thanks owenfi. Smartsolar AUD$275 and $383. This is a better way to go than the 250/100 which may work out at AUD$1500 if GST needed to be added. This is supported and proven. From here you save $100-200 and add far greater risk.
I had 4 routes for power to battery. Solar, vehicle alternator, portable generator or shore power. I did not want the latter two. The vehicle that suits me best is the Promaster/Ducato. You can install a second alternator but tricky and from all accounts there is only a small Cinderella spot. Also more battery would be required. I did not want to install 2 systems (solar/vehicle) if one could do. All solar relieves the need to have to drive just to recharge.
Now I have the battery sorted, the panels sorted and the MPPTs sorted. Now I will look at the inverter and controller. I don't think I want to have shore power (too much redtape).
I had 4 routes for power to battery. Solar, vehicle alternator, portable generator or shore power. I did not want the latter two. The vehicle that suits me best is the Promaster/Ducato. You can install a second alternator but tricky and from all accounts there is only a small Cinderella spot. Also more battery would be required. I did not want to install 2 systems (solar/vehicle) if one could do. All solar relieves the need to have to drive just to recharge.
Now I have the battery sorted, the panels sorted and the MPPTs sorted. Now I will look at the inverter and controller. I don't think I want to have shore power (too much redtape).
Glad you found those controllers for a good price.
To close out the speculation earlier, I have found the documentation:
And discovered that BlueSolar (other than that equipped with VE.Can) does not support synchronization, but can be connected to same battery pack (a comment from a Victron employee in one of the page's Disqus threads)
In terms of red-tape, do you mean you actually need a sanctioned approval to get allowance to connect to grid (for shorepower, not upstream connection)? My understanding is many affordable inverters support the ability to connect shorepower as a fallback source to save on the batteries, and with the dubious nature of battery powered AC, in Australia I think I would want it. (I only say dubious because many people doubt, not because I don't think we can achieve it with our fancy awnings)
To close out the speculation earlier, I have found the documentation:
And discovered that BlueSolar (other than that equipped with VE.Can) does not support synchronization, but can be connected to same battery pack (a comment from a Victron employee in one of the page's Disqus threads)
In terms of red-tape, do you mean you actually need a sanctioned approval to get allowance to connect to grid (for shorepower, not upstream connection)? My understanding is many affordable inverters support the ability to connect shorepower as a fallback source to save on the batteries, and with the dubious nature of battery powered AC, in Australia I think I would want it. (I only say dubious because many people doubt, not because I don't think we can achieve it with our fancy awnings)
The redtape is something I have to checkout. I do believe that once you hardwire the 240v in, you start with a lot of compliance issues. Now that I know what I need to do, I can start going down that path.
The inverter is somewhere that I can save some cash. There are many that you hook up to the battery and simply plug your appliance in. I just have to find a well priced unit that will work reliably. Victron are way more expensive.
The inverter is somewhere that I can save some cash. There are many that you hook up to the battery and simply plug your appliance in. I just have to find a well priced unit that will work reliably. Victron are way more expensive.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Shorepower should just be an extension cord feeding it, no red tape.
So long as the inverter isn't designed to backfeed into that wire, no problem.
At least here in the US where we ground the neutral wire, inverters for RV or boat have a relay: If unplugged, neutral grounded at inverter. If plugged in, that relay is open and the shore outlet feeding the cord provides grounded neutral. Your part of the world may be different.
So long as the inverter isn't designed to backfeed into that wire, no problem.
At least here in the US where we ground the neutral wire, inverters for RV or boat have a relay: If unplugged, neutral grounded at inverter. If plugged in, that relay is open and the shore outlet feeding the cord provides grounded neutral. Your part of the world may be different.
The 240V work has to be done by a "licensed" electrician. Electricians do their apprenticeship and then they must apply for a license to be able to operate. Electricians can work under a licensed electrician. I believe that my nephews are only electricians. It is just a question. If I cross the line then it will be a hardwire. Then it will be to my specs, flexible wire, flexible conduits, grommets and tied off.
All RV 240V work in Australia is governed by Australian/New Zealand Standard for Wiring Rules 3000 and 3001, which are applicable to "transportable vehicles and structures".
The electrics must only be worked on and certified by a licensed electrician. However, that does not apply to 12V circuits, which have no particular standards or licence requirements.
All associated fittings, powerpoints, circuit breakers, switchboards, etc., are governed by specific standards, especially those fitted outside the van. Locations such as bathrooms also face certain restrictions regarding the positioning of powerpoints.
All RV 240V work in Australia is governed by Australian/New Zealand Standard for Wiring Rules 3000 and 3001, which are applicable to "transportable vehicles and structures".
The electrics must only be worked on and certified by a licensed electrician. However, that does not apply to 12V circuits, which have no particular standards or licence requirements.
All associated fittings, powerpoints, circuit breakers, switchboards, etc., are governed by specific standards, especially those fitted outside the van. Locations such as bathrooms also face certain restrictions regarding the positioning of powerpoints.
That's not a Pure Sine Wave inverter. Maybe you're OK with that. Modified Sine Wave inverters will often not work with certain loads. I know the MSW inverter in my truck in a finicky piece of crap. The MSW 1000w inverter in my RV works much better, but it's still MSW and I know it won't work with everything.
This was the first one I looked at. The brand is Lyvuan. Says it is pure sine wave. I don't know yet. What made me look was that I just run a couple of cables to it and plug in. As a charger it becomes borderline as male plug would have to be hardwired in. There is a fine line there somewhere.
3000w 9000w Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter Dc 24v to Ac 240v UPS Solar Charger | eBay
Output Waveform : Pure Sine Wave. On: the Inverter Will Enter Sleep State(Turn off the Output) After 20 Seconds.when the Inverter Is Working in Solar(Dc) Mode and No Load In.the No Load Power Will Low than 3w,It Will Start Automatically After Loading.
www.ebay.com.au
Ohhhh yeah, I remember my Australian roommates telling me they had to have an electrician out to change a bulb. They might've been kidding.
This one looks pretty nice to me. Worth the extra for pure sine and optional AC-in.
If you'll be hardwiring into your unit I feel a shore power isn't much more "risk" (or even just a male plug that plugs into an extension cord), but if you'll just be running all your appliances plugged straight into the inverter you'd probably be more within the letter of the law, so that'll all come down to your comfort level (or hiring an electrician to finish it off, perhaps an electrician at an automotive/RV repair center).
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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In a recent job I had at a federal facility, although I was a "qualified electrical worker" I was not permitted to change a florescent lamp.
Guess what my first "professional" job was??
And that federal facility - let's just say they develop something that is, might I say, somewhat more dangerous than a light bulb??
It is not bad. It is just layer upon layer upon layer. I still maintain my builder's ticket so there is a lot I "can do but shouldn't". Plumbing, electrical and painting, they get a bit touchy on. I believe I may have to have a RCD (breaker ) in the shore power (will check but is good insurance). Australia has a honour system. All is good until something goes wrong. Then they come at you like a rabid dog with a lost bone. The first inline gets hung drawn and quartered. You just have to make sure you are not first in line or you can move the blame on. Years ago there was such a thing as an accident. Now it is "how much was your fault".
Years ago I had a Coles Gargantua crane. 75 tonne diesel electric job. The generator brushes needed replacing. I called a so called expert electrical contractor (they ended up also calling first another expert firm and then a second expert firm). The crane had a rated 7.5 tonne line pull on the winch. I was only lifting 6.5 tonne (per line) before they were replaced and only 5.5 tonne after. They said everything was in order. They then had to check out the entire electrical system to find the fault. Everything was correct except the line pull. I asked about the brush gear setting. They said neutral. I said advance it as per manual. They said no can do it must be neutral by law. I said I would adjust it. They said that they would report me and cause havoc. I said watch me. Advanced a little and got 7 tonne line pull, advanced some more and got 7.7 tonne. Advanced a little more and got the 8.25 tonne required (7.5 +10%). They hopped into their ute and disappeared faster than a rat up a sewer pipe. I never heard from them again. I never received a bill (by that time must have exceeded $3000.) The crane worked faultless the next ten years that I had it.
There was nothing wrong with the three electrical firms. They were faultless in trying to find the problem. They had just been taught that the brush gear had to be neutral. Almost all electrical motors must be neutral. I knew that it had to be advanced. This crane and a few diesel electric locomotives need to be advanced.
There was nothing wrong with the three electrical firms. They were faultless in trying to find the problem. They had just been taught that the brush gear had to be neutral. Almost all electrical motors must be neutral. I knew that it had to be advanced. This crane and a few diesel electric locomotives need to be advanced.
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