Caution Before Purchasing Victron from XYZ Distributor!

[AgroVenturesPeru]

All the more reason this entire thread never be deleted as a reference.

In that case, maybe we can just post that follow up response as a separate, new thread.

 

[Supervstech]

In that case, maybe we can just post that follow up response as a separate, new thread.

No, I think a resolution or lack Thereof, needs to be added to the thread, and maybe edit in a link to the outcome at in the first post.

 

[Hedges]

Don't get your panties in a bunch though. Pretty much everything is in Peruvian spanish, and you probably wouldn't understand any of it.

I believe I could get that faithfully translated into proper English, except perhaps for technical jargon.

 

[Sean Very North]

Let's hear your red flags. I may have to consult with a lawyer about posting evidence publicly, but I've got my evidence lined up. At the very least your red flags will help my analyze if I have evidence that responds to such doubts. When I post a screenshot from 2 years after our original purchase, of someone from the distributor telling us in writing that if we purchase a battery diagnostic cable from them, then they will not honor our warranties, is that truth enough? Of course, I can't prove a negative, I cannot prove that they did not inform us of their conditions prior to purchase. I can only share all documents that they shared with us prior to purchase. None of which mention any of their creative conditions. In the real world, that's typically why companies have you sign a purchase agreement with fine print. There really was no fine print anywhere at least not visible. Maybe it was so fine that we should've looked with a microscope. Any documents they could present to defend their position would have to be created retroactively.

Don't get your panties in a bunch though. Pretty much everything is in Peruvian spanish, and you probably wouldn't understand any of it.

You're very obviously frustrated, and you've very obviously got the hump with the distributor, which is fair enough and understandable.

Why haven't you actioned the RMA via another distributor ?

 

[hwy17]

I'll tell you what I notice, not that it matters. I looked into the back story a bit and watched some of your videos.

You have a lot of positive expectations about all the equipment. That it should work as advertised, that bugs should be resolved, that support should be provided, that warranty should be honored failing any of the above, etc.

This strikes me as different from the attitude I enter this stuff with, which is entirely the opposite. I assume the equipment is deficient, the chinese stuff will come with zero support and riddled with bugs, the warranty is imaginary, the name brand manufacturers (victron/schneider/sma/etc.) are going to completely blow me off, I personally lack the expertise, and after all that if any of the stuff actually works at all, well that will be a pleasant surprise. I reserve some small vanishing hope that if a piece of equipment completely smokes then maybe I'll get lucky against the odds and be surprised with a successful request for replacement.

And you are certainly not alone on your side of this issue. I see it a lot in support reviews from all suppliers and distributors. I have no doubt that your distributor in Peru is 10x worse than any of the others, but my expectations of a distributor in Peru would be 10x less too.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Grateful that the title of this thread is not broad-brushing Victron and all of its distributors.

Member hwy17 has a point. AgroVenturesPeru describing Victron as the Rolls-Royce of solar components sounds out of tune to me, but clearly there is anger and frustration that needs to be addressed. And though we do not know the heart of the matter, seems like Victron has to have protocols in place to lessen end users trying to swindle them. It is just so horrible for the honest customers sometimes.

 

[GravelRider]

I'll tell you what I notice, not that it matters. I looked into the back story a bit and watched some of your videos.

You have a lot of positive expectations about all the equipment. That it should work as advertised, that bugs should be resolved, that support should be provided, that warranty should be honored failing any of the above, etc.

This strikes me as different from the attitude I enter this stuff with, which is entirely the opposite. I assume the equipment is deficient, the chinese stuff will come with zero support and riddled with bugs, the warranty is imaginary, the name brand manufacturers (victron/schneider/sma/etc.) are going to completely blow me off, I personally lack the expertise, and after all that if any of the stuff actually works at all, well that will be a pleasant surprise. I reserve some small vanishing hope that if a piece of equipment completely smokes then maybe I'll get lucky against the odds and be surprised with a successful request for replacement.

And you are certainly not alone on your side of this issue. I see it a lot in support reviews from all suppliers and distributors. I have no doubt that your distributor in Peru is 10x worse than any of the others, but my expectations of a distributor in Peru would be 10x less too.

I find it fascinating that anyone could find fault in someone expecting a product to work as advertised, have support, and have their warrantees honored. I expect all of these things. And the first and last item on that list are lawfully mandated with products sold in the US (not sure about other countries, including Peru).

 

[hwy17]

Well, I'm not sure fault is the right word, and I am not saying my attitude to the other extreme is more correct or rational. It's a tactic to avoid situations where I could end up feeling victimized that probably runs so deep a therapist could easily pull the thread back to my childhood. I enjoy knowing how my car works but the reason I actually fix it myself is to avoid the hazard of relying on a mechanic not to rip me off. I don't fault anyone I know for wanting their mechanic or used car dealer to be honest, but if they are indignant or dismayed that either of them would be any less than that I do think they are a bit naive to the known risks involved in dealing with them.

When it comes to products there is a spectrum I think of reasonable expectations. At the top #1 might by a new car or an Apple product where you can expect to bring the product back to the manufacturer in person to be greeted by a person devoted to your customer service (you can still easily get screwed by either!). At the bottom #10 might be a craigslist sale where you better hold on to your cash until the product is in reach because you're not getting shit back. Near the bottom #9 might be aliexpress where you can expect to probably get your money back if the product simply doesn't arrive, but nothing after that.

Most of the equipment that we discuss on here I would expect to rank in the bottom half of that scale. With Victron, Schneider, SMA, etc. I'd call that like a 6 or 7 these are companies that produce premium products with an valid higher expectation of quality but they are dedicated to their channel and are somewhere between hesitant and hostile to ever even speaking to you the end user directly.

Below that at maybe an 8 would be a product like Pylontech batteries that I would broadly categorize as the chinese equipment market. Maybe there's a distributor in your country and you're not ordering straight from China, but you very nearly still are.

OP's complaints about Victron are more understandable especially considering that he purportedly did follow the distributor model as intended, purchasing through it, obeying it's instructions, and seeking support back through the chain in order. Still though, it's Peru, I don't know the country but I've spent enough time abroad elsewhere to know that you must discount your expectations in these sort of dealings outside of the west.

It was OP's video on Pylontech that set off my feeling that maybe he is entering parts of this market with a different set of expectations than what I think is reasonable. If you're not expecting software errors and incompatibilities from a product like that you either don't see that you're shopping in the B/C/D tier battery market, or you're not understanding and accepting what that entails.

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

Well, I'm not sure fault is the right word, and I am not saying my attitude to the other extreme is more correct or rational. It's a tactic to avoid situations where I could end up feeling victimized that probably runs so deep a therapist could easily pull the thread back to my childhood. I enjoy knowing how my car works but the reason I actually fix it myself is to avoid the hazard of relying on a mechanic not to rip me off. I don't fault anyone I know for wanting their mechanic or used car dealer to be honest, but if they are indignant or dismayed that either of them would be any less than that I do think they are a bit naive to the known risks involved in dealing with them.

When it comes to products there is a spectrum I think of reasonable expectations. At the top #1 might by a new car or an Apple product where you can expect to bring the product back to the manufacturer in person to be greeted by a person devoted to your customer service (you can still easily get screwed by either!). At the bottom #10 might be a craigslist sale where you better hold on to your cash until the product is in reach because you're not getting shit back. Near the bottom #9 might be aliexpress where you can expect to probably get your money back if the product simply doesn't arrive, but nothing after that.

Most of the equipment that we discuss on here I would expect to rank in the bottom half of that scale. With Victron, Schneider, SMA, etc. I'd call that like a 6 or 7 these are companies that produce premium products with an valid higher expectation of quality but they are dedicated to their channel and are somewhere between hesitant and hostile to ever even speaking to you the end user directly.

Below that at maybe an 8 would be a product like Pylontech batteries that I would broadly categorize as the chinese equipment market. Maybe there's a distributor in your country and you're not ordering straight from China, but you very nearly still are.

OP's complaints about Victron are more understandable especially considering that he purportedly did follow the distributor model as intended, purchasing through it, obeying it's instructions, and seeking support back through the chain in order. Still though, it's Peru, I don't know the country but I've spent enough time abroad elsewhere to know that you must discount your expectations in these sort of dealings outside of the west.

It was OP's video on Pylontech that set off my feeling that maybe he is entering parts of this market with a different set of expectations than what I think is reasonable. If you're not expecting software errors and incompatibilities from a product like that you either don't see that you're shopping in the B/C/D tier battery market, or you're not understanding and accepting what that entails.

What video(s) are you all talking about?! I don't have any videos on Pylontech. I have a couple unlisted youtube videos I made documenting the problem with the MPPT and another video showing the unboxing of the battery returned to us by the distributor following warranty "service" showing that they did not use any padding for shipment besides a couple layers of cardboard. None of those videos are publicly available.

 

[hwy17]

This one?

 

[JRH]

I see a couple small red flags myself... I will keep them to myself though as this unfolds.

The only thing I will add, is there is always THREE (not two) sides to every story.

Yours.
Mine.
The truth.

You parallel my exact thoughts…?

 

[robby]

I find it fascinating that anyone could find fault in someone expecting a product to work as advertised, have support, and have their warrantees honored. I expect all of these things. And the first and last item on that list are lawfully mandated with products sold in the US (not sure about other countries, including Peru).

You and me both!
Up until about 2005 most people who could not get a problem resolved on the phone would just show up at a sellers store and dump the defective products on the counter.

 

[JeepHammer]

If I get the resolution I'm looking for, I will delete this post. Currently the Victron sales rep for our region and our distributor are gaslighting us.
[/I]

Not uncommon unfortunately...

While a BUNCH of people on this forum are 'Blue Fan Boys', a few direct employees of 'Blue' inhabit this forum, my personal experiences with Victron have been negative.

One of the 'Blue' direct employees on this forum can't tell the difference between DC coupled and AC coupled systems.

I believe he was getting his 'education' by arguing with people on the intenet... And he portrayed himself as some sort of 'Regional Distributor' if I remember correctly.

A former battle buddy in the Marine Corps has a Boobtube channel about retiring to the Caribbean islands... It's somewhat popular...

He chronologically posted his experence with 'Blue', the manipulation, the gas lighting, the failures to meet stated/rated production/conversion, the total failures under warrenty, and the absolutely insane responses to his complaints...
Up to and including phsyical violence.

Threatening lawsuits for posting failures, lawsuits for naming names, lawsuits for showing 'Confidential Communications' (emails) back and forth.

So when he finally gave up and replaced the equipment, he made a video of him destroying the pile of failed equipment with an axe... so it wasn't inflicted on anyone else.

With about 2 million views in about 2 months, 'Blue' again threatened legal action, but found out quickly what he did with his stuff is his business.

It 'kinda' worked out, 'Blue' (or more precisely, some legal firm) paid him to take the video down, enough for him to cover the cost of something that worked as advertised... plus a little for his time and effort.

He can't talk about it (NDA) but I can, I didn't sign crap...

When I see 'Blue' on a service call, I already know the customer has been dropped in the crap barrel or they wouldn't be calling me, a 3rd party, to do the trouble shooting...

I can't say anything good about 'Blue' customer service or tech, you are always pretty much on your own... Google search for similar malfunctions/failures will get you better diagnostic and results than the facotory/distributor reps/techs in my experience.

Legal disclaimer since 'Blue' is lawsuit happy...
Personal experience and opinion only. Your experience may vary.

I think they suck.

 

[Sean Very North]

I'm calling BS on the previous post.

Obviously, personal experience and opinion only. Your experience may vary.

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

This one?

That's not me. My youtube channel is the same as my username on here. Mostly just videos about our reforestation project.

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

Not uncommon unfortunately...

While a BUNCH of people on this forum are 'Blue Fan Boys', a few direct employees of 'Blue' inhabit this forum, my personal experiences with Victron have been negative.

One of the 'Blue' direct employees on this forum can't tell the difference between DC coupled and AC coupled systems.

I believe he was getting his 'education' by arguing with people on the intenet... And he portrayed himself as some sort of 'Regional Distributor' if I remember correctly.

A former battle buddy in the Marine Corps has a Boobtube channel about retiring to the Caribbean islands... It's somewhat popular...

He chronologically posted his experence with 'Blue', the manipulation, the gas lighting, the failures to meet stated/rated production/conversion, the total failures under warrenty, and the absolutely insane responses to his complaints...
Up to and including phsyical violence.

Threatening lawsuits for posting failures, lawsuits for naming names, lawsuits for showing 'Confidential Communications' (emails) back and forth.

So when he finally gave up and replaced the equipment, he made a video of him destroying the pile of failed equipment with an axe... so it wasn't inflicted on anyone else.

With about 2 million views in about 2 months, 'Blue' again threatened legal action, but found out quickly what he did with his stuff is his business.

It 'kinda' worked out, 'Blue' (or more precisely, some legal firm) paid him to take the video down, enough for him to cover the cost of something that worked as advertised... plus a little for his time and effort.

He can't talk about it (NDA) but I can, I didn't sign crap...

When I see 'Blue' on a service call, I already know the customer has been dropped in the crap barrel or they wouldn't be calling me, a 3rd party, to do the trouble shooting...

I can't say anything good about 'Blue' customer service or tech, you are always pretty much on your own... Google search for similar malfunctions/failures will get you better diagnostic and results than the facotory/distributor reps/techs in my experience.

Legal disclaimer since 'Blue' is lawsuit happy...
Personal experience and opinion only. Your experience may vary.

I think they suck.

I DON'T call BS on this post. Can't think of a good reason why anyone would make up something like this.

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

You and me both!
Up until about 2005 most people who could not get a problem resolved on the phone would just show up at a sellers store and dump the defective products on the counter.

Actually, I looked up Peru's consumer protection laws on the books, and there are indeed articles against lies by omission. E.g. Promising warranty service, but then retroactively imposing/disclosing conditions on that warranty service only after receiving $15,000 from a customer.

 

[Sean Very North]

Actually, I looked up Peru's consumer protection laws on the books, and there are indeed articles against lies by omission. E.g. Promising warranty service, but then retroactively imposing/disclosing conditions on that warranty service only after receiving $15,000 from a customer.

You're oddly selective about which posts and questions you respond to, so I'll ask again.

Given that Victron, elsewhere, have publicly acknowledged there is an issue, why haven't you actioned the RMA via another distributor ?

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

You're oddly selective about which posts and questions you respond to, so I'll ask again.

Given that Victron, elsewhere, have publicly acknowledged there is an issue, why haven't you actioned the RMA via another distributor ?

I already posted earlier in this thread regarding this. Bottom line: no satisfactory solution has been proposed that doesn't involve us going without power. Also there is mutual distrust amongst all parties. This could be resolved if there were some uncorruptable third party.

 

[Sean Very North]

I already posted earlier in this thread regarding this. Bottom line: no satisfactory solution has been proposed that doesn't involve us going without power. Also there is mutual distrust amongst all parties. This could be resolved if there were some uncorruptable third party.

If you are so convinced that you are being treated in an unlawful manner why not use your new found consumer protection laws knowledge and take some positive action elsewhere, you clearly aren't being offered a solution that meets with your satisfaction.