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diy solar

Colorado utility company locks people out of their thermostats

I like the work they do in delivering power and restoring service.
But some regulatory proposals are entirely self-serving.
What they requested for California NEM 3.0 was for rooftop PV owners to pay the utility net money for all power delivered into the grid. And pay for power consumed as it was produced by PV.
Earlier NEM rules were such that if someone installed PV producing half the power their A/C consumed, electric bill went up not down.
The goal should be to reduce fossil fuel consumption, substituting with PV and other renewable sources. Then redistribute system costs in a fair manner.
Frankly I would not blame the utility companies one bit for not allowing a single individual to have net metering. The fact it was forced by government mandate was wrong. Everyone else has to pay for those that get special treatment.

Heck the Federal and some State governments is forcing utilities to buy more expensive power to meet some strange goal of being "Green". Those costs inevitably are passed on to the consumer. Some that are happy to pay more in theory for protecting the unicorns but tend to sqwack when they see the higher monthly electric Bill.
 
I think the pandemic especially has proven that ‘just in time production’ is a great way to lose your a$$ when a butterfly flaps its wings halfway around the world.

The grid has essentially ALWAYS functioned as ‘just in time’ production, and up til now they had perfectly good excuses, but it’s always been more fragile than i think was common knowledge. We’re in the era now where it’s no longer truly acceptable to have an entire electrical grid reliant on instantaneous production, but still waiting for the slow integration of grid scale storage. Up til now it seems like a lot of utilities have mostly been reactionary to solar and the proliferation of EVs, just legislating to maximize the waning years of an outdated model instead of proactivey organizing to try to standardize enough of the ‘new energy’ that we could have real ‘vehicle to grid’ integration so that utilities saw that energy transition as a business opportunity instead of a threat.
 
No more then I don’t “ prep “ for the roads becoming impassable , I don’t prep for the grid to fail , it’s hasn’t failed since it’s inception in 1925 , and I see no reason it will collapse now or tomorrow either. I have wood fired heating by preference and gas cooking by preference so a few candles would see us through a disruption . Politically any major sustained failure of the grid would have such enormous consequences the state would (re) nationalise the whole energy system and go into emergency mode.
On some level i agree with you but i think you might be surprised how much of a house of cards the grid can be and how in the event of mismanagement or failure of some hardware it can actually ‘destroy itself’ to a degree that no government intervention can do anything about, and would take potentially weeks or more to return to operation. About the only thing the government would do in that situation is unleash a river of money to the people who screwed it up in the first place, and send the national guard to make sure the people keep their complaints down to an acceptable level through some good ole american Threats Of Violence.

Anyway, check out this interesting video about a near-catastrophe.
 
I watched a 'Fully Charged Show' video today that pointed out an interesting contradiction in "cost sharing" that is happening in Great Britain. Admittedly they have far more options for how you pay for power, but my local utility has a similar 'community solar' program that gave me pause for thought.

So apparently, for years, if you wanted to be 'Green' you could pay extra to have your power sourced from the renewable market rather than the general fossil fuel power market. The power is all combined on the same grid, but at the time, the renewables cost more per kwh and I imagine this was a way of keeping their introduction on to the grid politically palatable to people who didn't want to pay for them.

However, now in Europe the script has flipped. Natural gas prices have gone through the roof. Much of Great Britain's electricity on the fossil fuel side comes from natural gas, so electricity prices are way up. However, the video noted that the people who paid for years to use electricity from renewable sources were seeing the same increases as everyone else. Why should this be the case? The cost of wind power didn't suddenly spike.

So if renewables are more expensive the people who want them should pay more. And if renewables are cheaper, "We're all in this together."

(I would apologize for the excessive use of quotation marks in this post, but they are a renewable resource :))
 
I totally agree.

We've been watching a scene play out locally with a guy who got all bent out of shape for reasons I don't think anyone but him know. He's made his fair share of scenes at city council meetings, etc. Anyway, he got himself one of them fancy DC Solar Trailers and told the local utility "to come get his meter". It now appears that he didn't fully understand that 2.5kW of PV stood no chance at meeting his energy usage.

Neighbors have filed numerous complaints about the constant noise of the generator so now he can't run it after 10pm.

After a month of pouring 20 gallons of diesel a day into the on-board Kubota gennie he's decided he might not be so mad at them after all. But.... they are now making him bring his 30 year old service up to modern standards before they reconnect him. How about that for nice big ole helping of karma? :ROFLMAO:
Don’t poke a bear unless your sure you can kick its ass ..
 
What bothers me about the situation that started the thread is that a homeowner with a PV system was locked out. Their PV generation likely covered whatever load the air conditioning put on the system.
What PV system is generating from 4pm until 9pm?

Just a guess, If the PV system is a net metered (my assumption) they are already receiving a subsidy covered by the other rate payers they can’t “double dip” by claiming another subsidy.

PV systems are typically the reason why afternoon prices are crazy high.

Now if the PV system has a battery and no net meter subsidy, I agree it shouldn’t be black listed.
 
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As an addendum, why is there so much hatred for utility companies? They do a dang good job of providing a 24/7/365 day service. It is not an easy task.

There is hatred for most monopolies, whether it's a necessary monopoly or not.
 
Unvalidated hatred is generally just jealousy or ignorance.
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger. I can't think of many utilities that are loved, whether they provide necessary services at reasonable costs or not.
 
it’s not the power company per se , they are just working folks like all of us…..it the top dogs than run it and the politicians getting power drunk .. that start all the political crap…it’s a sickness .. and it spreads … and it recruits as it spreads..

any tool that will help rule , will become a usefull tool…

.Thank all the high school hall monitors you knew, that found their way into public service and politics..
they just couldn’t wait to pontificate to the masses… the dumb masses… and set them straight in life.
There’s the problem…
 
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger. I can't think of many utilities that are loved, whether they provide necessary services at reasonable costs or not.
I don’t blame you at all .. your just the reporter in the street… party on Garth….
 
There is hatred for most monopolies, whether it's a necessary monopoly or not.
I don't have nearly the problem with municipal owned utilities that basically work for the people at no profit long term. Love our water company.
The CA utilities that are investor owned just increases the cost and incentive to increase what can get pulled out. Also the fight against home solar has given them a black eye.
 
PV systems are typically the reason why afternoon prices are crazy high.

PV did not increase the cost of afternoon power. PV reduced it.
The highest total demand from grid is mid-afternoon. PV contributes to power production at that time. More cheaply than the alternatives.
Growth of PV probably let utilities get away with not installing as much generation.
Today, if you subtract PV generation from total consumption, the peak of remaining power generation occurs early evening.

All PV did was reduce the daily kWh market share of natural gas peaker plants. They have the same fixed costs, reduced utilization and reduced fuel costs.
 
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger. I can't think of many utilities that are loved, whether they provide necessary services at reasonable costs or not.
Having been without power in 1989 for 4- 5 weeks , in 90 degree heat, I love my power company.. I love them dearly…
but I still keep my eye on the top dogs of the outfit…
ya would have to have been there to understand…

peace ,love ,happiness… J.
 
PV did not increase the cost of afternoon power. PV reduced it.
The highest total demand from grid is mid-afternoon. PV contributes to power production at that time. More cheaply than the alternatives.
Growth of PV probably let utilities get away with not installing as much generation.
Today, if you subtract PV generation from total consumption, the peak of remaining power generation occurs early evening.

All PV did was reduce the daily kWh market share of natural gas peaker plants. They have the same fixed costs, reduced utilization and reduced fuel costs.
Yes crunch time is when the sun sets and the wind is low at which time the full burden is on burning fuel.
Need more storage.
 
PV did not increase the cost of afternoon power. PV reduced it.
The highest total demand from grid is mid-afternoon. PV contributes to power production at that time. More cheaply than the alternatives.
Growth of PV probably let utilities get away with not installing as much generation.
Today, if you subtract PV generation from total consumption, the peak of remaining power generation occurs early evening.

All PV did was reduce the daily kWh market share of natural gas peaker plants. They have the same fixed costs, reduced utilization and reduced fuel costs.
PV generation is peanuts from 4pm until 9pm, that is peak demand. Also remember, majority of utilities don’t own generation. It’s the markets problem to solve via real time prices.

It’s cheaper to keep a larger power plant online with reserves for afternoon peak, but if that afternoon peak is 3-4x it has been with PV generation disappearing, that means 3-4x times of fast start dispatchable generation is needed, that fast start generation is crazy expensive compared to base load generation. This is why sooooo many commercial PV sites have been recently permitted as PV + battery. Those 4 hours in the evening are worth at least twice the other 20hrs of the day.
 
****FROM CENTRAL COMMAND****
****PRIORITY STATUS ***
****RECIPIENT,EARTHLINGS****

We are aware of the rebellious attitude against the power distribution points on earth you call the grid.
We and we alone have allowed such a luxury to exist in your feeble and primitive culture.
Dont bite the hand that feeds you..

Be aware we are watching..

***End of transmission***
 

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I watched a 'Fully Charged Show' video today that pointed out an interesting contradiction in "cost sharing" that is happening in Great Britain. Admittedly they have far more options for how you pay for power, but my local utility has a similar 'community solar' program that gave me pause for thought.

So apparently, for years, if you wanted to be 'Green' you could pay extra to have your power sourced from the renewable market rather than the general fossil fuel power market. The power is all combined on the same grid, but at the time, the renewables cost more per kwh and I imagine this was a way of keeping their introduction on to the grid politically palatable to people who didn't want to pay for them.

However, now in Europe the script has flipped. Natural gas prices have gone through the roof. Much of Great Britain's electricity on the fossil fuel side comes from natural gas, so electricity prices are way up. However, the video noted that the people who paid for years to use electricity from renewable sources were seeing the same increases as everyone else. Why should this be the case? The cost of wind power didn't suddenly spike.

So if renewables are more expensive the people who want them should pay more. And if renewables are cheaper, "We're all in this together."

(I would apologize for the excessive use of quotation marks in this post, but they are a renewable resource :))
Power costs have risen in the uk and Europe mainly as a “ precaution “ rather then any real cost input rises , many governments are reading “ windfall taxes “ to claw back knee jerk prices rises. I expect electricity prices to fall back during 2022/2023

In Europe , the grid pricing is in effect an average , but gas plants are used to provide renewable support , so these plants are priced into renewables as few people have smart meters or hourly tariffs

Hence even if you are paying for a high renewables mix , ie your retail company is maximising renewable to grid spot buying , you still get hit by gas rises. One answer is hourly smart meter tariffs , in theory the consumer chooses the supply , in practice I think it just screws us as we have to cook food at fixed times for example
 
I don't have nearly the problem with municipal owned utilities that basically work for the people at no profit long term. Love our water company.
The CA utilities that are investor owned just increases the cost and incentive to increase what can get pulled out. Also the fight against home solar has given them a black eye.
I agree , the privatisation of power generation has not benefited consumers it should be reversed , major utilities should all be in public hands
 
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