Confused on RV setup

[Sunny75]

Hi Guys!

I could use some help! We've had a major cut in income recently, and we're in the process of building. I thought I would have more time to research this stuff but with our sudden income cut, I don't.

We are currently using a gasoline generator to power our RV, to the tune of $2000 a month...that needs cut as much as possible now.
What is the best way for us to do solar on a shoestring budget? A solar power generator for right now or....?

Our RV is a 2006 Keystone Laredo 29RL with the residential and comfort living packages, I believe it will run off a 3500 watt generator, although our current generator is in the 9000 watt range.

Is someone willing to tell me affordable solar power setups that will work for our situation? I don't know if I should focus on a solar power generator, with solar panels or if there is something cheaper we could do.

I apologize for the hand holding, I suddenly have little money and no time to figure this out.

Thank you for your help!

 

[BentleyJ]

The first thing you really need to do is find the time to clearly identify how much electricity you need. Avg per day, Peak surge requirements, seasonal and weather considerations Etc so the system can be designed and priced. The good news is with a $2,000 a month fuel bill you would have a fairly fast payback on a solar system if fuel consumption could be cut by 75 to 85%.
If you need to operate an air conditioner, 3500W is going to be very marginal as in you wouldn't have much power available for other appliances when AC is running. Also would need a soft starter installed on the compressor.

 

[jberger]

With motor loads, like air conditioning, you need more surge capacity than with steady loads. So don't try to go too small on the genset before you understand your surge loads.

The more of the loads you can cut down, the less generation you will need to deal with.
So I think I'd start by looking at your largest load (assuming it's HVAC) and see how you can make adjustments before you start buying items.
If it's cooling, then the Midea U window units are very efficient and cheap.

Do you already have an inverter system in the RV?
Can you just add batteries and try to cut down generator runtime in the first month while you work out the details?

 

[chrisski]

This may sound rude, but you are asking for things that can't happen. Cheap solar, no time to learn, and no funds. If you can't cut your energy consumption, what you're asking for won't happen.
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I would put your limited time elsewhere besides getting solar power to replace a $2k a month gas bill for a generator if funds are tight. The only thing you can do on a shoestring budget is build a battery bank to run things when you have no high loads on. At best, this will be to get you through the night if you never shut the generator off.

I expect to live as you are right now, going solar with inverters, batteries, and panels would run between $10k and $25k DIY and would require significant time.
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At the top of the page is a link for DIY Solar Products and System schematics. Not a single one of those will replace the amount of power you are using.
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My RV can run the AC for about 8 -12 hours a day and you can look in my signature block to see exactly what I did. There are a lot of RV builds with solar, but very, very few that can run the AC like mine and still charge the batteries. I assume the 29RL means 29 footer which probably has a single 15k BTU unit, which is what I have.

========

Some very bad calculations put your power consumption at between 500 kWh and 2 MWh in a month. That is a lot of power for an RV build. To hit the lower end of that, you'd need to fill your roof with panels and put just as many on the ground.

You may be better off getting a 3.5 kWh generator which idles at less gas.

 

[Rocketman]

Are these panels going to on the roof of the rv - so you can move it. Or are they going to be setup on the side or near it?

I am assuming on the roof.

Getting that much solar on a 30’ RV will be a challenge. I have seen a few MotorHomes that had 3000+ watts. They built a grid above the roof and had the whole top covered. The grid went over the A/C’s, plumbing vents, skylights, etc. they had just enough room to physically slide in - bolt on or remove the panels. (These were on MotorHomes that had a LOT of extra capacity).
Find good priced panels- but more importantly find panels that fit your rig.

For air conditioning put soft starts on the A/C’s. I just put a Micro Air EZ start on my Rec-Pro A/C. The startup amps went from 27.9amps to 16.5amps. Now my Victron Multiplus 12/3000 can start it without complaining. Although I usually only run in for about an hour then either shut it off or start the generator. (I have 544ah of lithium batteries and 1400w of solar). If air conditioning is needed a lot - move! 500 feet higher or 500 miles north brings approximately equal relief - you may need several times that - your rig has wheels.

Make sure you have a good complete plan before buying anything. Post your plans here and people will look them over and point out issues - problems - or ways to save money.

 

[Tomthumb62]

@chrisski paints the harsh reality. Get on the grid, if you can. If your single biggest energy cost is air conditioning, seriously consider moving north to someplace cooler. You still need air conditioning in many parts up near the Canadian border, but not as much and many even do without.

You can’t save money going solar if you’re on a tight budget. You’re going to need to learn a lot and still dish out tens of thousands of dollars. No solar generator is going to even touch your loads. Run your fridge and charge your laptops, yes, but not an electric range or hot water heater or definitely not air conditioning.

If you do go DIY, maybe you can get a loan?

 

[Doggydogworld]

We are currently using a gasoline generator to power our RV, to the tune of $2000 a month...that needs cut as much as possible now.

Yikes. First thing is to measure (or estimate) your electricity consumption. This forum has a FAQ and Energy Audit tools here:

Index

We're just starting to explore and create a wiki so please keep checking back in. Interested in becoming a contributor? Click [URL='https://diysolarforum.com/ewr-carta/editingrules/']here[/URL].

diysolarforum.com

Then figure out what to cut. "Negawatts" are very cost-effective.

Solar can be very cheap if you use it when you produce it. Storing it to use later costs a lot more. After you figure out the minimum amount of electricity you really need, you want to figure out when you need it. Moving consumption into the daytime helps a lot with solar.

A/C is the biggest summer Watt hog. What's your weather pattern? Is shade available? Can you go without A/C at night?

Are you on a well? Do you have a compressor fridge or an RV-style absorption fridge that's able to run off propane?

Is your hot water, cooking, etc. propane or electricity?

 

[Sunny75]

Hi Guys!

First, thank you for responding and trying to help me out!

So, I didn't do a good job explaining our situation. We actually need to upgrade our batteries; we're using the same ones that came with our RV from when we bought it last year. That's the reason for all the fuel, battery run time stinks....not AC. I don't have to use the AC, I do here and there but it isn't a life or death thing. Sorry for that.

So our fridge runs off of electric or propane, stove propane, water heater split electric (12vpilot)/propane, furnace propane. We don't have any inverters or anything like that. We do have the WFCO Converter, it's the original WF-8955AN model that came with our RV. Our Microwave, outlets, electric fireplace, and A/C (obviously) won't run unless connected to shore power. I don't know if that's due to our RV's design from 2005/2006 area, our converter, lack of batteries or if that's just how they are (I'm speaking of the outlets and microwave). We don't use the fireplace, sporadic on the A/C, and only use microwave usually around dinner time for veggies, and tv for a little while in the evening- the news, or occasional family movie. I don't really understand why I can't use any of the outlets without shore power, such us for coffee pot, laptop, charging this or that.

We are looking at new batteries as I know that's the obvious first step. I was looking at these: https://www.eco-worthy.com/products...8425&msclkid=ea885283a3f619066a2e3630aab98328

Will they work with our converter?

I am trying to do a lot, my husband was an OTR truck driver, so a lot of this fell on me but I also homeschool, am trying to build our cabin and set up our homestead. Solar was just one of those things I didn't have the mental capacity to focus on by the end of the night, although I should have done it anyway.

I have been doing some studying and will continue to. I am also trying to figure out if we should go with a pieced together system (and learning about all of those components) or something like the Apollo solar generator.

I really do appreciate your help, thank you.

 

[Sunny75]

I forgot to mention, I was shutting down the generator at night completely but then I noticed my batteries were nearly dead by morning with nothing on other than the fan light over the stove and water heater. So, I know I need batteries.

Also wanted to add, no, we're not broke, broke. We are building broke. My husband has chosen to go with a local construction company (so very thankful for this as it's a huge load off of my shoulders), so it isn't like we will have no income. Our budget will be tighter but not water pie tight (if you've ever even heard of such a thing lol)

 

[Mattb4]

First off get yourself a small inverter generator to run at time of minimum need. For heavy use Honda or Yamaha are going to last longest. Set on Eco mode these will consume the least amount of gas for run time/loads. Practice only running your larger generator for heavy loads and than shutting it down.

If you can not get grid and eventually would like to go solar you will need to do a lot of planning. other posters have commented towards that.

 

[Tomthumb62]

fridge runs off of electric or propane,

These are famous for being efficient on propane and a total hog in electric. Like 400-900W type of hog. My 7.2cf fridge in our trailer uses 70W average, never more than 85W. Our massive home fridge uses about 110W. Ditch that or run only on propane. I would assume the same for your hot water heater that’s propane and electric. Ours is propane only but with our increased solar production I would consider one like yours but look to see if there’s a model efficient in the electric end. Usually not because they assume you’re running the electric mode in an RV park, where you pay the same rate per day regardless of if you use only a little electricity or maxing out the 50A service with air conditioners. So they didn’t design the electric mode in these devices to be efficient because that would make it more expensive to design build and sell.

 

[Doggydogworld]

So our fridge runs off of electric or propane, stove propane, water heater split electric (12vpilot)/propane, furnace propane.

I'd run all this on propane for now. It's a cheaper way to create heat (and the type of fridge you have runs off heat).

We don't have any inverters or anything like that.

Your 120V AC outlets won't work without an inverter. Your battery only supplies DC power, probably 12V DC. An inverter turns that into 120V AC.

We do have the WFCO Converter, it's the original WF-8955AN model that came with our RV.

That converts 120V AC power to 12V DC to run your 12V circuits (usually lights, fans, etc.) and charge up your battery. It's kind of the opposite of an inverter.

We are looking at new batteries as I know that's the obvious first step. I was looking at these: https://www.eco-worthy.com/products...8425&msclkid=ea885283a3f619066a2e3630aab98328

Will they work with our converter?

Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) is a good choice for daily use. Your converter is probably too old to directly support LFP, but you may be able to change the charging parameters. If not you can probably get a newer one for cheap. But if you plan to add solar there are ways to bypass the converter and charge the battery from your solar charge controller (SCC) or All-In-One unit (AIO).

I have been doing some studying and will continue to. I am also trying to figure out if we should go with a pieced together system (and learning about all of those components) or something like the Apollo solar generator.

Solar generator is OK if you find one that meets your needs at reasonable cost.

Without A/C and with propane running your fridge and water heater your only major draw is the microwave. You can size your solar/battery/inverter system to handle that, or go with a smaller system and just fire up the generator for 10 minutes before dinner each night. As an example of a small 12V system look at the Van Life system on this page. You'd want different components, especially to run a coffee pot, this is just to give you an idea. Budget would be 1500 or so, including two of the batteries you linked above.

If you want a system to use now and also with the house when finished, you'll probably want 48V. That will cost a lot more.

You really need an energy audit to make sure we're not missing some major consumption item. It sucks to spend a bunch of money then realize the system doesn't meet your needs.

 

[Pappion]

... You really need an energy audit to make sure we're not missing some major consumption item. It sucks to spend a bunch of money then realize the system doesn't meet your needs.

Microwaves are inefficient energy hogs. Cooking with electricity, Air Fryer, Coffee Maker, Toaster oven, Steamer, Crock pot etc.. will cost you. Often there are Wattage labels on these along with your TV, DVD, Hepafilter, Gaming system, Hair Dryer and Laptop. I also have a KilloWatt Hour meter I can plug these into. Some older RVs have 110v AC florescent lighting, There are some LED tube replacements.

On the 12v side I also do an audit. Estimating the hours of operation is important. My Victron smart shunt current readings and history help here.
Victron Smart Shunt
Ultility: Frig control board 2-5 amps, Water heater control board 1-5 amps, (standby vs operating relays or solenoids). Furnace blower is 3 to 7 amps and standby isn't much.
Lighting: 12v LED (about 0.1-0.3 amps) or old Halogen and filament type. Replace the old stuff with plugging LED.
My Gamming Laptop has a 12v 90w power adapter and is likely my highest use item. My Jenson Stereo is 12v. Doesn't draw much power since the CD/DVD player is dead. I have many 12v powered USB chargers so I figure it's 3-10A. Also a USB powered fan 5V 1A.
Sometimes I use a small Inverter (Victron 250W, wish I bought 350W) for TV 45W, DVD 22W, WII 45w, HEPA filter 60w.
I have Two 250W panels on the ground tilted, 480AH of lithium batteries, Victron solar controller, Victron Smart Shunt. It's good for boondocking and tolerates a couple of partly cloudy days before I have to cut back. It is not enough for AC or Microwave or Hair dryer.

 

[Rocketman]

As a full-time RVer this is what we have done. It works for us - we run our generator more to exercise it occasionally than for needs (except in winter).

I used all Victron- I realize Victron is Tier 1 (better stuff) and it costs more but it is easy to run and for my wife to understand where we are at. This will give you a starting list - for each item there are many different manufacturer. This fits us well - but your needs may/will be different.

Batteries - 544ah 12v LiFePO4 lithium batteries. (I DIYed them but more retail options are available now).

Shunt - Smartshunt- this tells you how full or empty your batteries are. Very important to have a good shunt with Lithium batteries.

Inverter/Charger - Multiplus 12/3000. This will run all your small loads, plus two medium loads or one large load (microwave, hair dryer, toaster). Newer model that I would recommend- Multiplus II 12/3000 2x120v (this one can run all 120v stuff in your rig (but only one high draw item or two medium draw items). It also works great automatically switching between 30a and 50a RV parks.

Solar - 1400watts in 200w panels- this one I did in stages. 200w panels fit my rig the best - but were more expensive. My dad did 250w used panels on his rig and paid LOTS less - he had a lot more open space.

Solar charge Controller- Victron mppt 100/50 and a 100/30. I did it in stages so that’s what was best at each stage.

Monitoring- we have a CCGX - Newer model is a Cerbo and Touch. This gives great monitoring of the entire system. Full-time living needs good monitoring - so you don’t get surprised.

Generator- built into my RV - but I would recommend a small Honda for those times you need extra power.

Micro Air EZ starts on the air conditioner. This lets you run it off a smaller generator (I can run it off the inverter for about an hour).

With my system - fridge is residential (electric) water heater is propane- stove is gas, but we have an induction plate for when solar is plentiful. We live plentifully with electric (with the exception of air conditioning) for 3 seasons- winter in AZ we run the generator more - usually an hour every day or so.

Ask any questions- that is how you learn. I installed the entire system.

Good Luck

 

[Pappion]

BTW: I have an WFCO 8955 too. It plays well in my setup. After 2 days float drops from 13.6 to 13.2v storage. Which give the LIFP04 a 50% operating range and never bottoming out.
Also I have never seen it go to 14.4v bulk voltage, and heard that only happens if it can push current, Your wire gauge and length to batteries has to be good enough. So likely it is not charging your batteries much at all.
BTW: I have to trick it to get 13.6v float. Shut off AC power to WFCO 8955. Turn battery disconnect switch off. Turn on AC power. Turn battery witch on.

 

[JRH]

Hi Guys!

I could use some help! We've had a major cut in income recently, and we're in the process of building. I thought I would have more time to research this stuff but with our sudden income cut, I don't.

We are currently using a gasoline generator to power our RV, to the tune of $2000 a month...that needs cut as much as possible now.
What is the best way for us to do solar on a shoestring budget? A solar power generator for right now or....?

Our RV is a 2006 Keystone Laredo 29RL with the residential and comfort living packages, I believe it will run off a 3500 watt generator, although our current generator is in the 9000 watt range.

Is someone willing to tell me affordable solar power setups that will work for our situation? I don't know if I should focus on a solar power generator, with solar panels or if there is something cheaper we could do.

I apologize for the hand holding, I suddenly have little money and no time to figure this out.

Thank you for your help!

So….ya wanna Replace a 9000 watt gen set with solar on a shoestring budget…hmmmm ..? OK…It would be a real challenge to replace a 9000 watt gen set running most of the day with solar.on a big budget…..period , much less affordably …$ 2000.00 a month in gas at 3.30 per per gallon = 600+gallons per month = 20 gallons a day ,,everyday... I must be missing somthing …what are y’all possibly running…? turn some stuff off… seriously ..

I lived in my newish 35 ft rv in 2021 for 3 weeks in august on a champion 3500 watt genny .. about 3 gallons a day and I ran everything including A/C hot water , refer, lights , tv , computer etc as needed..no prob..less than 200.00 per month if calculated out..

my family lived on generator for 6 weeks after hurricane Hugo powering a whole normal house full of people on 5 gallons a day in 90 degree heat…( no A/C ) that was about 5 hrs runtime a day …generac 4000…that’s all the gas we could find…
didn’t say it was perfect but it worked… and we felt lucky…cooking , showers , freezer, lights…
it takes some thought …and planing …..but it’s doable….
good luck , but something is missing here..
J.

 

[Consumerbot3418]

I forgot to mention, I was shutting down the generator at night completely but then I noticed my batteries were nearly dead by morning with nothing on other than the fan light over the stove and water heater. So, I know I need batteries.

Almost makes me wonder if you don't have a shorted cell in one of your batteries. Then again, that WFCO converter--I had the same in my 5th wheel--is notorious for not going into "bulk" (high power) mode, unless you can get it to "see" a lower voltage. That's a whole discussion in and of itself. I did manage to use it successfully with a BattleBorn LiFePo4 (aka LFP or Lithium Iron) battery, which was basically the same battery you're looking at. As others have mentioned, you'll definitely want to make sure it enters bulk mode when you're running the generator. This will save fuel, since your generator will charge the battery more efficiently.

That eco-worthy battery you linked would be a good place to start--it looks like it's $15 cheaper on Amazon. You should have no issues getting through the night with it on a full charge. It would be wise to have a way to monitor battery use and charge level. Now that I have one, I really regret not buying a Victron SmartShunt for our camper when we were full-timing in it. It'll show you charge level, power in use, and even how long you can expect the battery to last with the present load. Takes a lot of guesswork out of things. You might be better served just getting one that has Bluetooth monitoring via an internal shunt, though, which would be easier than hooking one up externally. I don't have personal experience with any Bluetooth-enabled batteries, though, and another member (@Pappion) has one that's inaccurate.

If you add an inverter, you can have a receptacle that you can power a coffee pot or microwave, but you'd need a pretty hefty inverter (and beefy cables between it any the battery). Inverters also have idle power draw, so your best bet, for now, might be looking for things you can run straight off the 12V battery. For example, we got a laptop charger for automotive use (plugs into a DC cigarette lighter socket). That way, you can charge your laptop, and use its USB ports to charge other things.

If you're willing to fire up the generator to run the microwave, AC, and coffee pot, then you might get by with just swapping the battery, for now. There are some fairly cheap solar "kits" that include a panel or two, stands, cables, and a charge controller. Something like that would work well if you're only running lights and fans, etc. But you run the generator for microwave, coffee, or A/C, and get the WFCO into bulk mode, you can just charge the battery that way.

We ended up with two batteries like the one you're looking at, and paired with an 3000W Windy Nation inverter, we were able to do occasional microwaving or cooking in an Instant Pot, use a TV, lights, and fans--A/C was out of the question, though. We had 6x100W panels on the roof, and never had to worry about the charge level in a period of sunny weather.

My advice is to upgrade the battery immediately, make sure the WFCO is actually charging it, then see what you can run straight off the battery and how that goes... and then you could weigh your options with the solar and/or inverter down the road.

 

[Consumerbot3418]

BTW: I have an WFCO 8955 too. It plays well in my setup. After 2 days float drops from 13.6 to 13.2v. Which give the LIFP04 a 50% operating range and never bottoming out.
Also I have never seen it go to 14.4v bulk voltage, and heard that only happens if it can push current, Your wire gauge and length to batteries has to be good enough. So likely it is not charging your batteries much at all.

We had that same issue in our RV--I was only able to get it to go into bulk mode by running a space heater off an inverter. Only takes a second or two, then it dropped into that bulk mode. But, since we never had a genset (just rooftop solar), it was never really an issue. I'm using that same WFCO 8955 as an aux charge for our house batteries in our "real" house--there's a pot you can turn to crank up the float voltage to about 14.2, in my case.

 

[Pappion]

We had that same issue in our RV--I was only able to get it to go into bulk mode by running a space heater off an inverter. Only takes a second or two, then it dropped into that bulk mode. But, since we never had a genset (just rooftop solar), it was never really an issue. I'm using that same WFCO 8955 as an aux charge for our house batteries in our "real" house--there's a pot you can turn to crank up the float voltage to about 14.2, in my case.

I looked into that. 3 pots on board. 2 seem to be current limits. Cranking up the Float should also crank up the Bulk Voltage to damaging level. I have not found good documentation. Do you have any?
BTW: 13.6v will charge my Lithium batteries to about 95%. It just takes hours due to cable resistance.

 

[Pappion]

I have Bluetooth in my batteries and Victron Smart Shunt. Only look at Smart Shunt now.
The batteries State of Charge are based on voltage which makes it useless, even after tweaking the voltage SOC % detect levels.
The Shunt is based on Current measured in and out, it is far more accurate for SOC%.

LiFeP04 have temperature limits High and Low. Charging limited to freezing and most BMS add 5c that. Discharge limited to -20c.
I moved the batteries to inside the RV to under the bed storage.