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Could a portable battery trick my solar into thinking it's on the grid?

franklin19c

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Columbus, Ohio
Hi. I have an unusual question that I haven't seen discussed before. I've had rooftop solar for a few months (Enphase IQ8 Plus microinverters), and my goal is to get a battery backup one day, but I don't need a big system or one that fails over automatically. Just a few kilowatts if my plan works.

My question is, could I use something like an Anker SOLIX F3800 battery with a generator plug (with the main breaker off of course), to trick the solar inverters to sending power? I know they won't send power to the house if they don't see a frequency that they can match.

I feel like it should work, and I could buy a couple more solar panels to charge the battery separately from my rooftop solar because I'm thinking that it's going to drain the battery somewhat. I wouldn't have any way to charge it if there were a power outage for a long time. I haven't checked to see if the Anker battery would stay on if the solar is producing more than I'm using and not fry the battery. I may be better off with a system from Enphase, but I didn't want to spend that much on a battery and system controller just as a backup for outages (which aren't common here). If anyone has done this before, please let me know.
 
No. A grid forming source for GT inverters must be capable of shifting the frequency to control the GT inverter. GT inverters expect an infinite grid to accept all they can produce. The grid forming source must also be able to handle the entire output of the array.

Using a capable off-grid inverter to interface with GT inverters is called AC coupling.

In your case, the GT inverters would see the source, connect to it and immediately send maximum power to it. This would cause an over-volt and disconnect situation - hopefully without damaging any of the components.
 
Sunshine hit send before I could...


I am running a system with AC coupling, so I can give some first hand data.

There are a few issues with AC coupling. In my case, I am running the older Enphase iQ7 microinverters. Many people say they are actually a little more forgiving to get working with AC coupling. But this changes with every software update. You also need to have a grid code loaded that will work with AC coupling.

As you have already mentioned, grid tied inverters like the Enphase units need to see a "good grid" to be able to produce power. Though, since you do have iQ8's, they actually can grid form on their own. But it does require the Enphase Empower gateway switch. When the grid goes down, it will disconnect from the grid and tell the iQ8 inverters that it is safe for them to start making power. This obviously can only provide power while the sun is shining. And in the case of AC coupling, they also can only make power with sunshine. The big difference is that a battery can keep making power when the sun goes down, and even when clouds pass over. Upgrading your system to daylight backup may help and you can still use an Anker or whatever battery system to keep you running after sundown. But if you spend a little more, you can also add the 5 KWH Enphase 5P battery.

But you are asking here, because you don't want to spend Enphase prices on this stuff... Right?

For a battery inverter to be able to safely grid form and make grid tied solar inverters power up, there are several important requirements. While almost any inverter might make a good enough sine wave for the inverters to try and come on, things can go very bad. I am just going to walk through the steps of turning on an AC coupled setup. Step one is you need to be disconnected from the grid. Using a generator transfer switch should work here. Step 2, the battery inverter has to power up and start running the loads. Let's say you have a few small things turned on. The inverter has to power up the refrigerator and a few lights. Ok, you are running on battery. Step 3, after 5 minutes of a good grid, the grid tied solar inverters will try to start powering up the system. In a perfect world, the PV solar power comes on and is supplying the power needed.

Step 4 is where we have our first issue. The PV solar panels start making more power than the loads need to run. The extra power will start to flow backwards into the output of the battery inverter. The Grid Tied inverters don't know they are not on the grid. They are just trying to push all the power they can from the solar panels. Many inverters at this point will shut down, or even be damaged. The inverter needs to be designed to handle bidirectional power. While some inverters can do it, they may not be very efficient at the conversion, and they will get hot and can still be hurt. DO NOT DO IT unless the inverter specifically says it can do AC coupling. Even if it looks like it is working at first, it could blow up at any time as it is doing something it was not designed to do. If it can do it, it will be advertised as a feature.

Step 5 is yet another problem. It happens to work, and the battery is being charged by the back fed power. What happens when the battery becomes full? An inverter that can do AC coupling uses a feature of grid tied inverters, "Frequency shifting". As the battery reaches full, the inverter/charger will raise the frequency. On some modern grid tie inverters, this will cause the power to be reduced slowly and it can find a balance point where the battery stays full. But in many cases, the frequency shift might go far enough to where the grid tie solar inverters just turn off as it is now a bad grid. The system runs off battery, the battery runs down a little, the frequency shifts back to normal, and the grid is good again, and the cycle repeats. Without this function, batteries will over charge.

And the bonus round, the battery system and inverter needs to be able to handle the entire power of the solar array. If you have 5,000 watts of solar panels, your battery needs to be able to accept 5000 watts of charge power. This is because the back fed power needs to be controlled by the battery inverter under all load conditions. On a 48 volt system, this is still over 100 amps of charge current. You can't get away with a small battery.
 
Thanks. That definitely helps. I don't really want a system that will keep my house up fully for a week (or something like that) without power. I just want something that I can run the essentials, but I was also hoping to get something from the rooftop solar rather than it just sitting there.

I may spend the money to get the full Enphase battery, but I'm more likely to get something simpler and take that risk. I was just planning it out and had a moment where I was thinking, "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink," but in my case it's kilowatts of electricity that I can't use.

It's clear now that my idea wasn't going to easily work as I thought. I'll keep thinking about it and if I need the solar output from my roof, I'd just have to go all out. The IQ System Controller 2 alone is ~$2,000, so that barrier to entry without getting a battery was a little much for me. If I can get an Enphase battery for a decent price, I may change my mind.
 
My system went in over 5 years ago. Enphase had their early battery, but no system controller, so it could time shift, but no backup. And the cost for the battery capacity was just too high.

I ended up going with a Schneider XW-Pro battery inverter. For backup only, it works perfect out of the box. Making it time shift power from AC coupled solar was a whole different story. I ended up having to write my own code in a PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) to command the XW inverter to go into charge mode when it sees extra power from the solar being exported. At least one other on this list is doing similar with an XW-Pro but controlling it with a Raspberry Pi.

Some of the newer All in One Hybrid solar inverter chargers claim to be able to do it from AC coupled solar, but I don't have any first hand experience to know if it works as claimed.

One very good option is still a Tesla Powerwall 2. They work quite well with the Enphase inverters and their software actually works. I tried to go that way, but my installed was not able to deal with Tesla, and the Tesla dealers refused to work with my existing solar install that was only a year old at the time. One of my co-workers just completed a large system with Enphase on the roof and a pair of Powerwall 2 batteries and he loves it.
 

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