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Designing heating and cooling for a new build.

Yes, the HVAC is connected to the water heater. Some of the excess heat produced by HVAC is pumped into the water heater. To take the max advantage of this feature you need to consider the hot water heater you use. I decided to go all electric for my house so used a Rheem Marathon 105 gallon high efficiency hot water heater (well insulated as well). It works well, there is excess heat generated in both winter and summer, so the hot water heater seldom kicks on except when taking a shower. During spring and fall when HVAC is not being used much it turns on more often.
 
Yes, the HVAC is connected to the water heater. Some of the excess heat produced by HVAC is pumped into the water heater. To take the max advantage of this feature you need to consider the hot water heater you use. I decided to go all electric for my house so used a Rheem Marathon 105 gallon high efficiency hot water heater (well insulated as well). It works well, there is excess heat generated in both winter and summer, so the hot water heater seldom kicks on except when taking a shower. During spring and fall when HVAC is not being used much it turns on more often.
Sweet glad it's working well. I actually recently picked up one of those Rheem marathon eclipse 75 gals for a vacation property I haven't installed yet. Seems like a great unit since all plastic and super insulated.
 
Yep, so no glass liner to crack, plastic outside so no rust and serious insulation. Works great it draws 4.8 KW when it on though, still easily with capacity of the solar system I have.
 
Hey Oz, Im probably not to far from you. Yea, not allot of deep soil in the Ozarks for putting in ground loops.
I'm south of Joplin. Yes, you'd certainly want to do a geotech of your site before trying to install a slinky loop. I know a guy that started to home build one not that far from me and ended with his loop just inches deep in many places. Backhoe couldn't bust the rock up but he chose to march forward anyway. It was a failure, sadly.

The tax credits pretty much made up the difference in cost between ground and high efficiency air sourced systems. Drilling the wells for the water loops was really biggest cost difference between ground and air sourced systems, but as I said the tax credits pretty much took care of that.
Do you mind sharing the pricing (rough is fine)? Your experience differs from mine but it could be a regional thing.

For me Geo was almost 3x times more than conventional HP. $23 vs $8k. ~$6,900 tax credit didn't even come close to making up the difference for me until Obama did the ARRA program which paid for 50% PLUS the federal tax credit on the FULL amount. I ended up with less than $4k in my GEO, a 2 ton 2 stage system that rarely needs 2nd stage for my high mass 2500ft2 ICF home.

The well's alone for mine cost $15k. That was almost 15 years ago and regulations have only tightened down since then. Several well drillers were shut down by the state for repeated violations leaving only a few and they are 6 months to a year out.

From my view point, you could buy several mini-splits today and then again in 10 years plus a lot of solar panels for that kind of money.
 
To add to my earlier input... One of the things many people forget is that while it makes good sense to plan the SIZE of your system for the coldest days (you don't ever want to be cold in your own home), it may not make sense to plan the TYPE of system around that. I know folks who complain about the cost of their minisplit running when it's -15F here, and yes, it is a lot more than when it's 20F or 25F. But even here in Maine (midcoast/central) we get only a few days - now, often as little as ~72 hours spread over the winter - of sub zero weather each year. So for the vast majority of the time, and certainly overall, the minisplit is the clear winner for anything other than wood heat, which as others have noted is a giant pain in the rear, or geothermal, which had a vey large upfront capital cost that can take up to three decades to recoup, if ever. If you do the math, the cost of capturing, concentrating, and moving heat (what a mini split actually does) is almost always lower than burning something to generate it, and then having to distribute that heat. Wood is still cheaper if you do the math, but I doubt that will remain the case for much longer, and if you already have enough PV installed, it's not the case at all.

Re: infloor radiant (often hydronic) heat, it's fantastic to feel that heat on your toes, and it's very efficient in terms of distributing heat. But in a high-performance building (great air sealing, very well insulated), the rate of heat loss from the building is almost always so low that the floor doesn't need to give off much heat. The result is that it feels essentially like room temperature, rather than warm. It's still great as a heat distribution method, but you don't normally get that wonderful "warm toes" feeling. Also, for the person who said their radiant heat was excessively expensive, this is almost always a result of an uninsulated (or at least very poorly insulated) slab. That's a design/builder problem, as failing to insulate a slab in all but the warmest US climate zones means you are using the earth as a heat sink, and your HVAC is now trying to warm the earth itself. There is no good fix for that other than turning it off and installing another type of heat.

Finally, in the US, air to water heat pumps (mini splits) still cost considerably more than air to air versions of the same basic technology. So while air to water is more efficient in terms of heat storage and distribution, the recent improvements in the performance of air to air heat pump technology, combined with the upfront cost differences between these two types of units, can be difficult to overcome. One of my best friends is an HVAC wholesaler for multiple top tier brands, and as we plan our new home he is very clearly steering me to air to air mini splits. We can install anything, but for a home with great sun exposure, good air sealing and insulation, and a decent amount of PV, the math says air to air mini split from a proven, reliable manufacturer.
 
First priority is a tight house with good insulation and vapor barrier
I agree with the tight house comment... This is a plan/technique that pays dividends forever. I built a new house last year and used foam insulation with a conditioned attic. Granted, my climate here in Central Texas is more extreme on the hot side, and obviously way less extreme on the cold side so it may be different in Arkansas, but my AC/Heat pumps (17 seer variable speed) don't work very hard to keep the house comfortable. I don't regret installing solar but dropping $20k (DIY) on solar to dodge my $100 electrical bill doesn't seem to make as much sense as it did when I planned it out based off my old house's power consumption. On the other hand, with the 30kwh of battery backup I never know when the grid is out, so I love that aspect.
 
Re: infloor radiant (often hydronic) heat, it's fantastic to feel that heat on your toes, and it's very efficient in terms of distributing heat. But in a high-performance building (great air sealing, very well insulated), the rate of heat loss from the building is almost always so low that the floor doesn't need to give off much heat. The result is that it feels essentially like room temperature, rather than warm.
Story time: When we first moved into our new (built and designed by me which may good or bad) high efficiency house with radiant in floor my family commented that they thought the floors would be warmer. Like any good dad I bypssed the outdoor reset that was doing a great job of satisying all the spaces with 88f degree water. I turned it up to 105 and left for work. When I came home the family were all in shorts complaining about being too hot and had even cracked a few windows. That was the end of that. LOL Our floors aren't warm per se but they certainly aren't cold which is very nice.

For most, radiant in floor is a luxury since you still need complete cooling system. Some talk about pumping cool water in the floor but that's not possible in many climates since you still have a system to dehumidify.
 
For most, radiant in floor is a luxury since you still need complete cooling system. Some talk about pumping cool water in the floor but that's not possible in many climates since you still have a system to dehumidify.

If you have a sealed modern house you'll need an HRC/ERC system anyway, which serves that purpose.
 
OK, as far as insulation, regular fiberglass or pay the extra for a professionally done sprayed foam?
 
OK, as far as insulation, regular fiberglass or pay the extra for a professionally done sprayed foam?
Spray foam is definitely better, if it fits in your budget.
It insulates an helps with the air tight sealing.
 
OK, as far as insulation, regular fiberglass or pay the extra for a professionally done sprayed foam?
Fiberglass bats are the dumbest insulation ever, spray foam is the way to go whether you can afford it or not because you really can't afford not to use it.
 
OK, as far as insulation, regular fiberglass or pay the extra for a professionally done sprayed foam?
The best solution is external insulation. I would recommend looking at Matt Risinger's videos on the perfect wall system and some other info on the subject. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDYh81z-RhxgCk1qJD6AJktVHZH7-BLSR

There are a lot of things out there, but an R9 exterior insulating sheathing board plus rockwool in the wall studs is about as good as it gets.
 
If you have a sealed modern house you'll need an HRC/ERC system anyway, which serves that purpose.
I have never heard of HRC/ERC. Google didn't help.

Perhaps you are referring to HRV/ERV? Those can help with high indoor humidity in the winter but as far I know (which isn't far) they aren't dehumidifiers nor can they move humidity from inside a house when it's already more humid outside than inside.

Or maybe you're referring to something else entirely?
 
Perhaps you are referring to HRV/ERV?

Yes, typo - too tired...

Yeah, if you're dealing very with high humidity, you need a dehumidifier. However with an ERV (not HRV) you do exchange humidity in cooling dominated climates, making the air you pull in less humid. An ERV pre-cools the incoming air.
 
I thought long and hard about spray foam. The cost was huge and then there is the choice between open and closed cell. Open cell is much more affordable than closed cell, but open cell will absorb and hold moisture. Moisture and mildew really had me worried. In the end I went with fiberglass. I have a steel house (12 inch walls) so I have the 3 inches of fiberglass associated with the steel sheets, a 8 inch dead air space, and finally 4 inch batts, 12 inches of cellulose in the ceiling. Altogether is seems to work great. The house is sealed pretty tight but not so tight that I had to deal with ERV. HVAC was tough choice as well but I paid $40k for the entire Geo system including all duct work and drilling. It would have been about $25K for a high end air to air system. Once the tax credits were applied once a few grand more for Geo than a stand HVAC system. Been in the house for a bit more than a year. My electric bills have been around 50% of my neighbors for winter and summer. I just got the Solar system in a few weeks ago, so at this point it's hard to tell exactly how it will fit in. Early estimates seem to indicate that I will have a very low electric bill.
 
Yes, typo - too tired...

Yeah, if you're dealing very with high humidity, you need a dehumidifier. However with an ERV (not HRV) you do exchange humidity in cooling dominated climates, making the air you pull in less humid. An ERV pre-cools the incoming air.
But does it remove enough humidity to allow one to pump cool enough water to provide enough (sensible/latent) cooling via the floor without hitting the dew point and having water puddle on the floors in most of the US? I honestly don't know but I doubt it could be done easily or reliably. A few screw ups and you've turned your house into a mold factory. OP's site along with most of the US appears to be close to 90% RH for the next 7 days.

Found an interesting article on it as well.

edit to add the image that didn't take the first time.


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Enough humidity to allow one to pump cool water enough water to provide enough (sensible/latent) cooling via the floor without hitting the dew point and having water puddle on the floors in most of the US?

Don't know about the US in specific, and probably not at 90% relative humidity. I do it in my place here in Finland with great success, and I am located a the sea shore - but not 90% humidity levels. A dew-point sensor prevents the issues here nicely.
 
OK, as far as insulation, regular fiberglass or pay the extra for a professionally done sprayed foam?
In general, fiberglass alone is not great UNLESS you have somehow air-sealed first. There are also many other great alternatives. Personally, I really like dense pack cellulose. A big thing people often ignore is water vapor transfer. Basically, you need to prevent water vapor from getting into the wall from the inside (people, cooking, showers, etc., give off a lot of it) as much as reasonably possible, and then for the water vapor that does get into a wall, give it a path to leave, before it condenses against a cold surface. If you really want to learn more, I'd suggest getting a copy of "A Pretty Good House", which is about as good as it gets for overall advice on building a high performance but still affordable home.
 
But does it remove enough humidity to allow one to pump cool enough water to provide enough (sensible/latent) cooling via the floor without hitting the dew point and having water puddle on the floors in most of the US? I honestly don't know but I doubt it could be done easily or reliably. A few screw ups and you've turned your house into a mold factory. OP's site along with most of the US appears to be close to 90% RH for the next 7 days.
No getting around dehumidification if you have latent loads in the space-- people, showers, cooking, etc. The ERVs just deal with a percentage of the ventilation dehumidification (assuming they have a dessicant wheel), and they reduce condensation risk on the ductwork.

Air filtering is also a pretty nice feature of a centralized system, even if you aren't going the HEPA route.
 
Personally, I really like dense pack cellulose. A big thing people often ignore is water vapor transfer. Basically, you need to prevent water vapor from getting into the wall from the inside (people, cooking, showers, etc., give off a lot of it) as much as reasonably possible, and then for the water vapor that does get into a wall, give it a path to leave, before it condenses against a cold surface.

This is why you don't typically use a vapor barrier with cellulose, but instead a vapor permeable barrier. For example, my roof:
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The air barrier is vapor permeable. Moisture can pass through, is wicker through the cellulose and fiberboard, and the air gap in the roof (which is vented to the outside) provides a natural air flow drying it all out. Cellulose (unlike fiberglass) doesn't lose its insulating properties when it gets moist. The lack of an actual barrier and giving moisture a way out makes it so that it can't build up.
 
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I thought long and hard about spray foam. The cost was huge and then there is the choice between open and closed cell. Open cell is much more affordable than closed cell, but open cell will absorb and hold moisture. Moisture and mildew really had me worried.
We will have 2" of closed cell followed by 4" open cell
2" closed cell - expensive, water proof, high insulation value around R14
on the roof deck, followed by
4" open cell - cheap, sound resistant, around R16
Total around R30. ICF walls are equivalent to around R50.
 
No getting around dehumidification if you have latent loads in the space-- people, showers, cooking, etc. The ERVs just deal with a percentage of the ventilation dehumidification (assuming they have a dessicant wheel), and they reduce condensation risk on the ductwork.
Yep, that's what I've been trying to say. Throw in day time highs of 100 and there's no way.

I caught a podcast a few months ago that quoted a study that found high failure rates (well over 50% I believe) of HRV/ERV systems after years and the occupants were none the wiser that they had failed. The take away was that the house was in worse shape because it had been so tight to rely on HRV/ERV for indoor IAQ.
 
I caught a podcast a few months ago that quoted a study that found high failure rates (well over 50% I believe) of HRV/ERV systems after years and the occupants were none the wiser that they had failed. The take away was that the house was in worse shape because it had been so tight to rely on HRV/ERV for indoor IAQ.

Most HRV/ERV systems have a filter that needs to be replaced at regular intervals, so it surprises me how a system like that can fail without anyone noticing. That said, I do agree with you that the trend of making houses essentially airtight plastic boxes is not a good thing, and that a passive moisture control system (such as the permeable barrier with cellulose) is a good thing, but not applicable to all climates. The biggest problem is not designing a house or selecting equipment with your local climate's best practices in mind.
 

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