Does utility provider pay attention to production above PTO

[atttech-2]

purely hypothetical asking for a friend.

Les's say a homeowner has a grid tie system that was originally 3.1kW on their permit to operate with PG&E. By some miracle that system in the future will for short periods be pushing back 5.5kW. I know they will be able to see the production, the question is do they have any analytics or desire to catch such a discrepancy? This hypothetical customer is probably on NEM 1.0 and does not want to be switched to TOU billing sooner than is absolutely necessary.

Any comments from those with experience especially PG&E customers apricated.

 

[pollenface]

I never had questions asked when i exceeded my 5kw export limit while experimenting with multiple grid tie inverters at once.

Maybe i got lucky. I'm sure they have the capability to "cotton on"

 

[740GLE]

Remember they own the meter and can have someone at your site pulling that meter very shortly. Is it worth the risk?

 

[atttech-2]

I seriously doubt they would go straight to pulling the meter. I would expect they would say shut down new new array and provide all the needed paperwork. I can't be the only one who has ever considered adding without telling out of sheer laziness if for no other reason.

 

[BentleyJ]

Les's say a homeowner has a grid tie system that was originally 3.1kW on their permit to operate with PG&E. By some miracle that system in the future will for short periods be pushing back 5.5kW. I know they will be able to see the production, the question is do they have any analytics or desire to catch such a discrepancy? This hypothetical customer is probably on NEM 1.0 and does not want to be switched to TOU billing sooner than is absolutely necessary.

Any comments from those with experience especially PG&E customers apricated.

I've actually done almost the exact thing mentioned in your hypothetical example but with SCE as the utility. Original permitted grid-tie system from 2011 is 2.8kW then a few years later I added a separate DIY 3.0kW Enphase grid-tie system. So far SCE has not questioned our production or contacted us. In fact, we have been finishing our 12 month period with a small net surplus which they automatically convert to credit on our next bill. Of course they pay only 3 to 4 cents per kWh but its about $30 to $50. End result, the net surplus credit plus the CA Climate Credit added to the bill twice per year results in just about enough credits to offset the $10 minimum charge for the net surplus months which occur in the spring and fall when heating and AC are not needed but the panels are producing good output.
I should mention that the DIY system is facing West and the original system is facing South so there is not as much of a noticeable solar peak between 11am and 1pm, production is spread out over more hours as the sun moves across.

 

[atttech-2]

I've actually done almost the exact thing mentioned in your hypothetical example but with SCE as the utility. Original permitted grid-tie system from 2011 is 2.8kW then a few years later I added a separate DIY 3.0kW Enphase grid-tie system. So far SCE has not questioned our production or contacted us. In fact, we have been finishing our 12 month period with a small net surplus which they automatically convert to credit on our next bill. Of course they pay only 3 to 4 cents per kWh but its about $30 to $50. End result, the net surplus credit plus the CA Climate Credit added to the bill twice per year results in just about enough credits to offset the $10 minimum charge for the net surplus months which occur in the spring and fall when heating and AC are not needed but the panels are producing good output.
I should mention that the DIY system is facing West and the original system is facing South so there is not as much of a noticeable solar peak between 11am and 1pm, production is spread out over more hours as the sun moves across.

Good to hear. now that NEM3.0 has passed I am more concerned than I was in November. By effectively killing the benefits of legitimate permitted array expansions the CPUC has just incentivized DIY and less than reputable installers to just do it and hope to not get caught. Because of that for the next 20 years or so there will be more incentive for utilities to write an algorithm that matches peak production against what was registered under the permit to operate. I am currently researching solar diverter projects and purchased an Emporia view to both gather data and in hopes that I may be able to use it to control diversion instead of having to build an Arduino device from scratch.

 

[gg576]

I added 2.6 kw to my original 8.1 kw solaredge system back in March. My overall production has jumped but my peak never goes over the 7.6 kw inverter max. I have heard nothing yet.

I too am concerned but willing to roll the dice since I have added a fair amount of demand.

 

[Mike 134]

Unless you export to the grid way larger KWHs that stand out from just conservation improvements or even gone from vacation you should be safe.
It's when they don't see a decrease in purchased KWH but an increase in KWH exported that is outside the "norm" you might raise a flag.

 

[Ampster]

I am currently researching solar diverter projects and purchased an Emporia view to both gather data and in hopes that I may be able to use it to control diversion instead of having to build an Arduino device from scratch.

I have an Emporia and their EV Charging device that allows me to charge from available solar. As far as I know, that is the only device within the Emporia system that can do that. I do have some of their switches and if they can be triggered by some criteria then one of those could be used. Years ago I used another device, plus a IFTTT script to trigger another type switch which then drove a 120 volt dual pole relay to turn on my older EV charging station.. It was not elegant and was only binary and could not modulate output like the Emporia, I think I remember that the Emporia does not have an API or external hooks into the data for programming They do have a user forum where you might be able to get assistance.

To the larger question about whether PG&E monitors our NEM agreements I can only offer my opinion that they do not unless you have a paired storage arrangement as a result of receiving SGIP funds. What they are looking for there is whether someone is charging from the grid and then exporting that power during peak times. Also, several years ago I had a delayed PTO and someone inadvertently left the solar breaker on before I got the PTO and I sent power back to the grid for months and never a peep. Of course I never got credit but the charging device I mentioned did allow me to charge my EVs from solar for free. I have added additional solar subsequent to receiving my PTO and do monitor my output just to see if I need to program some export limiter but so far my export has never exceeded the inverter capacity in my NEM agreement.

 

[Ampster]

Unless you export to the grid way larger KWHs that stand out from just conservation improvements or even gone from vacation you should be safe.
It's when they don't see a decrease in purchased KWH but an increase in KWH exported that is outside the "norm" you might raise a flag.

I agree. Changes in consumption patterns can mask a lot of over production. One strategy I am planning is to run my heat pump water heater during mid day to lower any chance my peak would be more that 10% above my NEM installed inverter capacity. Another strategy is the use of my Emporia EV Charging station to also reduce any peak export. Finally, the extra panels I am installing are west facing so they will produce later in the day and not likely affect my peak Noon time export. With two EVs my total consumption can be also used. Last year I was a net consumer of power but had a negative dollar balance. With my behind the meter hybrid inverter batteries I can self consume much of my solar, some of it to the grid at peak rates of $0.55/kWh.