Don’t trust auto parts store battery cables

[DPC]

That said, my long 12ft jumper cables are only 6 gauge and had no problem jump starting our van.

Most of the time that will work.
Sometimes if you allow one car's alternator to charge for 5 min or so before you crank it will make up for small wire size if its a problem.
My wife has the easiest solution to all of these problems she has CAA to come change tyres or boost her if needed.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Most of the time that will work.
Sometimes if you allow one car's alternator to charge for 5 min or so before you crank it will make up for small wire size if its a problem.
My wife has the easiest solution to all of these problems she has CAA to come change tyres or boost her if needed.

i prefer the ability to fast jump a vehicle. my cables are somewhere between 2 & 1 gauge with heavy duty clamps. I bought them at the local shimachu homes (like a mixed up version of home depot mixed with farmers co-op) and I have jump started a large work truck with no more then hooking the cables up and hitting the gas a bit to raise RPM's and alternator output. its nice when the vehicle is stalled in a bad location and you need to start it quickly.

I had a pair of the lighter duty ones back in the day and the clamps where so low quality that they would get too hot to touch. that was after charging for about 5 minutes and then cranking.

 

[DPC]

i prefer the ability to fast jump a vehicle. my cables are somewhere between 2 & 1 gauge with heavy duty clamps. I bought them at the local shimachu homes (like a mixed up version of home depot mixed with farmers co-op) and I have jump started a large work truck with no more then hooking the cables up and hitting the gas a bit to raise RPM's and alternator output. its nice when the vehicle is stalled in a bad location and you need to start it quickly.

I had a pair of the lighter duty ones back in the day and the clamps where so low quality that they would get too hot to touch. that was after charging for about 5 minutes and then cranking.

In some cases you can damage an alternator by running it at a high charge rate and low engine RPM.
That's something to think about too, Keep your RPMs up when charging a battery before a boost..
That heating issue well thats something you have to be careful of, but any set of booster cables in an emergency is better than none..

My Dad had this Gizmo called a multi-start

It had a Kohler 8hp engine and a pair of Delco generators on it used to boost cars and trucks.
I' had heavy cable and it could put out a lot of amps,
But Dad would let the unit run and charge a battery for a few minutes before he tried to start a frozen up car ( back in the 70s during cold winters he would hang out at the airport and boost cars for travellers to get some extra money )
He wanted to try and warm up the other fellows battery a little to reduce the strain on things.

That multi-start could roast a starter if the other fellow cranked too long.
V
He tried to gentle to not cook anything on anyone's car,

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

In some cases you can damage an alternator by running it at a high charge rate and low engine RPM.
That's something to think about too, Keep your RPMs up when charging a battery before a boost..
That heating issue well thats something you have to be careful of, but any set of booster cables in an emergency is better than none..

My Dad had this Gizmo called a multi-start

It had a Kohler 8hp engine and a pair of Delco generators on it used to boost cars and trucks.
I' had heavy cable and it could put out a lot of amps,
But Dad would let the unit run and charge a battery for a few minutes before he tried to start a frozen up car ( back in the 70s during cold winters he would hang out at the airport and boost cars for travellers to get some extra money )
He wanted to try and warm up the other fellows battery a little to reduce the strain on things.

That multi-start could roast a starter if the other fellow cranked too long.
V
He tried to gentle to not cook anything on anyone's car,

no doubt hence raising the RPM's by hitting the gas. thats on my normal vehicles. my personal truck has a 230 amp leese neville alternator in lieu of its stock 110 amp unit and as such it can put out 150+ at idle. simply bringing it up to 1000 RPM engine speed allows the full 230 amps. So far as the vehicle being jumped. it will only pull what it could pull from a fully charged battery so like any other starter if you crank it too long it will overheat and either burnt he brushes or the windings.

 

[WattSecond]

Yeah.

You can verify current crimp quality with a pullout test.

Hook the terminal on something heavy and then life the cable and see if the wire pulls out.

In addition to the pullout test, I use a destructive test and cut mid crimp to view wire compression. I got a bit of duck bill, but solid wire compression. Also the hydraulic dies can be ground down to suit size of lugs used.

 

[DPC]

That looks like a good crimp

Outside it looks a little funky, like maybe it was over done a little, but its inside that counts very well down

 

[DPC]

no doubt hence raising the RPM's by hitting the gas. thats on my normal vehicles. my personal truck has a 230 amp leese neville alternator in lieu of its stock 110 amp unit and as such it can put out 150+ at idle. simply bringing it up to 1000 RPM engine speed allows the full 230 amps. So far as the vehicle being jumped. it will only pull what it could pull from a fully charged battery so like any other starter if you crank it too long it will overheat and either burnt he brushes or the windings.

This is the 4000 series I first used as a battery charger in 1988.

Problem regulator failure.
A dead set of batteries would draw over 80 amps from the MG set.
The set used a 13 cubic inch briggs and stratton engine directly coupled to the alternator.
At higher levels of discharge the small 13 cubic inch engine could not develop enough torque to get up to speed.
Speed was set at 3600 rpm and according to the manufacturers ratings this was near the best speed for peak power and efficiency
A bit high if I recall...


Regulators died!!!!!!

What I learned was it was better to removed the regulator and put in series a rheostat from a automotive dashboard to lower the field current at full field so the alternator would not fry the regulator, the engine would not be overpowered by the alternator and the C rate for charging could be kept bellow 80 amps

This rig might still exist.
Ill look for what ever my stupid uncle did with it, might be under a tarp someplace...


Ah...
This is the great leap forward.
The only automatic choke kit that actually works for the small block Honda-clone.
I'm not that smart what I did was adapt the first generation Kohler clone autochoke to the horizontal shaft GX series engines.
Its still the only one ever built as far as I know and it works perfectly for a remote start on command from a charge controller or remote station inside.

 

[Checkthisout]

I use a destructive test and cut mid crimp to view wire compression.

I prefer to use the cables after I make them.

 

[WattSecond]

I prefer to use the cables after I make them.

Actually, sacrificing a couple of lugs and some cable is a quick and cheap way to verify crimp quality. Curious of your method? In an engineering environment we test random samples of cable assemblies crimps with a test fixture employing a determined weight and length of drop. Better to cause a test failure than experience an operational failure.

 

[Checkthisout]

Actually, sacrificing a couple of lugs and some cable is a quick and cheap way to verify crimp quality. Curious of your method? In an engineering environment we test random samples of cable assemblies crimps with a test fixture employing a determined weight and length of drop. Better to cause a test failure than experience an operational failure.

A cable subject to a pull-out test is still usable afterwards, no?

It's akin to x-raying a weld rather than cutting the weld back open to look at a cross-section.

 

[DPC]

A cable subject to a pull-out test is still usable afterwards, no?

It's akin to x-raying a weld rather than cutting the weld back open to look at a cross-section.

I tug to see if its tight if fine but there is a risk pulling too hard, that might be destructive.
I think your better to not tug your wire ..... lol.

Use a proper crimper

 

[Checkthisout]

Actually, sacrificing a couple of lugs and some cable is a quick and cheap way to verify crimp quality. Curious of your method? In an engineering environment we test random samples of cable assemblies crimps with a test fixture employing a determined weight and length of drop. Better to cause a test failure than experience an operational failure.

My own personal method is crushing the hell out of it with a hydraulic crimper. The crimper jaws close the chosen die to the same degree everytime so there is no need to test anything other giving it a quick ceremonial jerk.

 

[SparkyJJO]

My own personal method is crushing the hell out of it with a hydraulic crimper. The crimper jaws close the chosen die to the same degree everytime so there is no need to test anything other giving it a quick ceremonial jerk.

I could see the use of a destructive test for a new crimper never used before since they tend to not be accurate for AWG. But, once accuracy has been validated, yeah, should not need to do it anymore.

 

[Checkthisout]

I tug to see if its tight if fine but there is a risk pulling too hard, that might be destructive.
I think your better to not tug your wire ..... lol.

Use a proper crimper

It shouldn't pull out or even "shift" in the terminal if properly crimped IMO.

For instance, I had 0000 cables hooked to an 8D battery (about 120 LBS). You should be able to lift the battery by the cable.

There...that's my new rule...a proper crimp can lift an 8D battery. Put that in in the engineering books.

"Lift 8D battery, if hernia occurs before cable pulls out then crimp is to spec"

 

[SparkyJJO]

Lift 8D battery, if hernia occurs before cable pulls out then crimp is to spec

 

[Recovering EE]

I hope you do now?

You can use a vice, or a well placed hammer & drift also

I use one of these
View attachment 223714

I have the same one, and used it to crimp lugs on the cables that came with a PowerPro.

Worked very well, with a 4 pound sledge, backed with concrete. Clean crimp.

 

[Boron]

I have little faith in crimping cos I havent invested in a pro set from a reliable co. ca $500 for starters plus a tray of lugs ca $250. I'm amateur and dont do enough to justify anything like that outlay. So I clamp my wire, having applied flux paste first then I solder with a mini gas torch. Its not always pretty but I have some confidence it will not arc. I use heavy duty 4:1 adhesive heat shrink (remember to thread this on first and away from solder heat.
Purist will decry the stress point caused by solder wicking down the cable. Indeed - possible in an auto vibration app and not a MIL spec quality but its the best I can do with my limited budget. BTW it also eats up your time to prep all this. A pro crimp on fresh mtl is so much quicker.
Soldering is not always convenient - like on a roof top wet and windy day.
YMMV

BTW I know the Urban myth about tugging the cable after crimping - but this seem kinda agricultural and unscientific. Lots of hot air about cold welding and fancy photos showing a xsection of a joint etc - it just doesnt feel right to me especially as the market is flooded with Cheap Charlie lugs and difficult to source genuine products. IMHO pro crimping is such a specialist engineering feat, lugs should have a clear quality audit trail.
What does the aircraft industry do? anyone know?

 

[Checkthisout]

I have little faith in crimping cos I havent invested in a pro set from a reliable co. ca $500 for starters plus a tray of lugs ca $250. I'm amateur and dont do enough to justify anything like that outlay. So I clamp my wire, having applied flux paste first then I solder with a mini gas torch. Its not always pretty but I have some confidence it will not arc. I use heavy duty 4:1 adhesive heat shrink (remember to thread this on first and away from solder heat.
Purist will decry the stress point caused by solder wicking down the cable. Indeed - possible in an auto vibration app and not a MIL spec quality but its the best I can do with my limited budget. BTW it also eats up your time to prep all this. A pro crimp on fresh mtl is so much quicker.
Soldering is not always convenient - like on a roof top wet and windy day.
YMMV

BTW I know the Urban myth about tugging the cable after crimping - but this seem kinda agricultural and unscientific. Lots of hot air about cold welding and fancy photos showing a xsection of a joint etc - it just doesnt feel right to me especially as the market is flooded with Cheap Charlie lugs and difficult to source genuine products. IMHO pro crimping is such a specialist engineering feat, lugs should have a clear quality audit trail.
What does the aircraft industry do? anyone know?

Everything gets crimped on cars and planes. The best test is to max amps and then temp test the crimp.

 

[Boron]

Everything gets crimped on cars and planes. The best test is to max amps and then temp test the crimp.

Is that what industry does to test a crimp joint? Once its covered in heat shrink, difficult to inspect Would really like to know what industry practice really is

 

[Checkthisout]

Is that what industry does to test a crimp joint? Once its covered in heat shrink, difficult to inspect Would really like to know what industry practice really is

Just clamping the die same everytime.

Not complicated

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Is that what industry does to test a crimp joint? Once its covered in heat shrink, difficult to inspect Would really like to know what industry practice really is

on shipboard electrical panels we go through with a infared camera looking for hotspots.
find one the following happens
document location and circuit,
inspect for obvious problems (torque, corrosion etc.)
unbolt cable from board, check for corrosion under the lug,
clean, recoat with ox guard reassemble, torque to spec
apply power to test watching with camera, if it fails again the lug gets cut off and replaced, then repeat above.

these are fairly high voltage and amperage both DC and AC some of them run in the thousands of amps continuous.... large private yachts bow thrusters run up to 700-800 amps at various voltage in AC, or DC, you can imagine what the bow thruster of a 20~40,000 ton cargo ship uses for instance... and thats not even a large ship.

 

[Isle Madame Marine Sys]

Yes automotive cables are intended to run a start motor for 1 to 20 seconds. Not the continuous power of a GC. At least look for the #2 cables instead of the standard #4. Automotive equipment uses SAE wire with less copper than AWG.

Otherwise get a crimper, lugs and some wire to do it right.

The only way you can be sure and it is always the right size that fits in wire tray!. Check out ABYC to get instructions of how to make and test cables and heat shrink exposed surfaces for safe operation even at sea!

 

[SunDave]

What does the aircraft industry do? anyone know?

Not the best example to follow at the moment...

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Not the best example to follow at the moment...

ahhh say it isn't so! Common Man! we be Building Back Better with Boeings commitment to hiring diversity no matter how many planes crash as a result

 

[Boron]

The only way you can be sure and it is always the right size that fits in wire tray!. Check out ABYC to get instructions of how to make and test cables and heat shrink exposed surfaces for safe operation even at sea!

I have huge respect for the ABYC community, they have decade of battery experience in marine environment. Solar kiddies should listen and learn