EcoFlow Delta Pro - what they don't tell you and why I hope Bluetti can deliver

[GoetzSaCebu]

I want to use solar and thought these new "Solar Generators" will do the trick.

My plan was to have a Solar Generator and Input a) solar plus b) AC Grid power.
Thinking that during the day the generator gets charged via solar and also can power my house using solar that way.
But if its too cloudy (or night) when the batteries run empty its still connected to the AC grid and just utilises that for recharging/powering my house.
Sounds so easy but only after asking precisly I now know that Ecoflow can't handle Solar and AC together!

After watching Hobotechs video where he explained that with AC grid plugged in the DeltaPro, it only gives you 2KW output (instead using the 3.6KW inverter) and then asking Ecoflow more questions I now stepped back from buying one of these.

1st answer from EcoFlow I cant really get my mind to, because what happens during night times? Should I unplug every sunset?
Or do they mean with solar and AC plugged in that will damage the board? But then still I would have to manually plug in AC for charging every day?
"When the cloudy day, please plug out the solar charging cable and just use the wall charger to charge the power station, If you keep the solar charging cable keep plugging on a rainy day, it will hurt the power station."

2nd answer is even more sad for my idea:
Kindly know that the UPS can't turn off, but you can use the DC to charge.
I am afraid that your idea can't be realized. If you charge for DELTA Pro via the solar charging and wall charger at the same time, the input will recognize the solar charging firstly. So if you want to charge to the wall charger, you should manually switch. You can plug out the solar charging then let it wall charge.

That means I can NOT HAVE SOLAR AND AC charging connected together and always have to switch manually between charging mehods.
Ok, its always those "Am I really the first...." moments, but seriously if I had developed such a generator I would have build in the possibility to connect all possibilities and then let electronics and user set the way in which it gets charged.

Like Bluetti seems to be able in their AC300 as the manual states:

https://cdn.shopifycdn.net/s/files/1/0536/3390/8911/files/AC300_User_Manual.pdf?v=1631707827

10.2.3. PV Priority UPS Mode ● PV Priority Mode: Recommended for areas with stable grid power. The battery will be recharged mainly by PV for power savings. ● Note: In PV Priority Mode, AC300 can only be recharged via grid to 30% capacity, and also discharge to 30% of the capacity (you can tweak it to 100% for full grid charging manually on touchscreen or App) as the "Reserved capacity for PV charging". And rest of the capacity will be fully charged from either solar power or 2 adaptors



What are your thoughts and experiences about this?

 

[Browneye]

Evidently there's a AC tie-in system in the works to do what you want.
Might be some answers here:

Will, Delta Pro claims you refused to review the new Delta Pro... is this true?

Will, Delta Pro claims you refused to review the new Delta Pro... is this true?

diysolarforum.com

 

[robby]

Honestly I don't see these units as something designed to power a normal house. They are probably Great for RV's, Cabins and Camping but if your looking for a hands off system that is set and forget I don't think these are made for that. Secondly your paying a lot of extra money for the thing to be easily movable. I would rather that money be spent on features that are more geared for home usage even if it adds weight and bulk.

 

[KellyDood]

I like my Jackery's and Eco Delta (not pro) as more tools in the belt, something I could loan to friends/neighbors and then charge back up for them. Also tested fine for powering fridge and freezer for about 7 hours- longer than most outages and able to get you quietly thru the nite before going back to gas generator.
But, my inverter arrives today for my house system so I look forward to having that as main power source.

 

[Dank Farrik]

I have a Delta Pro and am active in the EcoFlow community. A lot of people leave solar connected 24x7. You absolute CAN charge via AC and solar at the same time. The charge rate is the sum of AC + DC. With that said, the AC power is always passed through to the output (hence the 1800W limit) when AC input is connected. There is currently no way to tell it to prioritize solar power when solar power is available, but a lot of people have requested this feature. There is a workaround that some people have done, which is to put the AC input on a smart outlet and schedule it to only turn on when it's dark. That way during the day, it's only running off of solar/battery, then at night, it can run from grid. It does sound like that the AC300 already has the feature you want for your use case though.

 

[CaptMichel]

Well I also tried to have some answers from ecoflow and unfortunately don't come back with answers,
Here are my questions anyone have the answers or ideas please share
Thanks
1- Can we parallel 4 delta pro to get more power instead of buying extra batteries (like the ALL POWER MONSTER PRO)

Another way to say it, can I use 2D-Pro to be the masters with the double voltage hub and the other 2 D-Pro to be use has battery add on ?
I assume I need a second battery cable ?

2- Does it offer full ups option on the 240v 7kw when 2 units are connected using the hub adaptor, instead of 1,800w of 1 outlet !

3-Can we extend the DC charging cable, I know 5 meter comes with the smart generator? but it is too short

4 - I have other battery bank lithium can I use to charge the ecoflow pro on the DC input charge

5 -Can we program to start different generator brand automatically.

7- Can I control the output wattage of the smart generator when charging the batteries so the generator runs more efficiently and quieter ?

 

[Dank Farrik]

Well I also tried to have some answers from ecoflow and unfortunately don't come back with answers,
Here are my questions anyone have the answers or ideas please share
Thanks
1- Can we parallel 4 delta pro to get more power instead of buying extra batteries (like the ALL POWER MONSTER PRO)

Another way to say it, can I use 2D-Pro to be the masters with the double voltage hub and the other 2 D-Pro to be use has battery add on ?
I assume I need a second battery cable ?

2- Does it offer full ups option on the 240v 7kw when 2 units are connected using the hub adaptor, instead of 1,800w of 1 outlet !

3-Can we extend the DC charging cable, I know 5 meter comes with the smart generator? but it is too short

4 - I have other battery bank lithium can I use to charge the ecoflow pro on the DC input charge

5 -Can we program to start different generator brand automatically.

7- Can I control the output wattage of the smart generator when charging the batteries so the generator runs more efficiently and quieter ?

The EF Delta Series group on Facebook is very responsive and helpful, so you will likely get better info on DP there:

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With that said, I’ll try to answer your questions.

1. More power as in more max output in watts, ie more capacity? You cannot link two DPs together except with a Double Voltage Hub, to get 240V split phase. Each DP can attach up to 2 Extra Batteries. A DP cannot act as a “slave” Extra Battery.

2. No UPS (technically Emergency Power Supply, as the 30ms transfer time is not fast enough for some computers) when using the Double Voltage Hub. This because AC input is disabled when using the Infinity Port (which DVH plugs into). With that said, you can still charge via DC and get the full 7.2kw 240V split phase output.

3. No. That’s one my (and others’) complaints. DC cable is not extendable. I know EF is considering offering longer options, but nothing concrete yet.

4. Yes, you can absolutely charge the DP with another DC source, such as another battery, as long as the voltage is no more than 150V. DP will draw 15A max (actually close to 16A in real world test, as long as power is 1600W or less).

5. No, the auto-start/stop works with the EF smart generator only.

6. ???

7. Yes, you can adjust the DC output wattage of the smart gen in the app.

 

[CaptMichel]

Umm... Thanks very much for finally answering precisely what I've been asking EF
They came back with some answers but not all.
So if I understand you well I can not use 2 EFDPro with the Hub like a UPS...
It is very unfortunate that we can't use this unit like a UPS and that's a deal breaker,
I was really under the impression you could.
My system now does that when power goes out, the inverter takes over immediately and when the batteries are
low it starts the generator, EF does that but it charge only one battery at the time according to answers I've received.
I was looking to upgrade to a newer and sophisticated system
but it seems that my actual system is just fine, all I need is update my batteries.
Now how to I return all this units just purchased still in the boxes is the question ?
If only I could have spoken to a tech instead of support that can not really answer the harder questions, they escalate to
another tech level and they email you back with the same answer then you email back and finally if you find the right tech
you'll have your answer but it took around a while to get that done.
Here you are and answered my questions with in 24hr
Thank You very much
Appreciated .

 

[Dank Farrik]

Umm... Thanks very much for finally answering precisely what I've been asking EF
They came back with some answers but not all.
So if I understand you well I can not use 2 EFDPro with the Hub like a UPS...
It is very unfortunate that we can't use this unit like a UPS and that's a deal breaker,
I was really under the impression you could.
My system now does that when power goes out, the inverter takes over immediately and when the batteries are
low it starts the generator, EF does that but it charge only one battery at the time according to answers I've received.
I was looking to upgrade to a newer and sophisticated system
but it seems that my actual system is just fine, all I need is update my batteries.
Now how to I return all this units just purchased still in the boxes is the question ?
If only I could have spoken to a tech instead of support that can not really answer the harder questions, they escalate to
another tech level and they email you back with the same answer then you email back and finally if you find the right tech
you'll have your answer but it took around a while to get that done.
Here you are and answered my questions with in 24hr
Thank You very much
Appreciated .

If you want EPS functionality, you would need the Smart Home Panel. Do you need 240V split phase? If not, each DP by itself is able to have EPS functionality powering 120V loads.

The thing is, you can’t really UPS with the Double Voltage Hub on a technical level. 240V split phase requires both 120V legs be 180 degrees out of phase with each other. When the DPs are discharging via battery, DVH can coordinate with both DPs to make sure the 120V legs are indeed 180 degrees out of phase. However, if grid power is passed through to the output, there is absolutely no way to guarantee that the two random outlets you’ve plugged into are on different phases. They might be out of phase, or they might be on the same phase.

With that said, you can always charge via DC (solar or 2 AC-DC power supplies, or 2 smart generators) while using the Double Voltage Hub. In which case, the inverter is always on and you are always using the battery. But there is no delay at all if grid power cuts out, since you are already on battery.

 

[CaptMichel]

I sure appreciate your time and your help, good advice
The way I am setup now is more about the ability to have power when the grid goes down
My inverter 120/240 magnum does the job very well,
My inverter is 4.4kw and purchasing 2-DP's looked attractive going up to 7kw with lithium batteries etc.
I really like the DP for simplicity and connections but UPS is a must.
Or like you say use it constantly but at the moment I don't have enough solar panel and winter time sun is not very present where we are.
Using AC-DC power supplies is an idea but in a long run not very economical, may be one way to deviate that is if I can pinpoint my needed load at peak hours and charge the units when the grid price is cheaper may be that could work, and sure would address the UPS issue.
And I suppose running of the DP's voltage is more consistent and pure than the grid.
The issue here is how to manage all that and if the batteries gets depleted what will tell the power supply to kick in ?
The Smart Home Panel would be nice but N/A for now and apparently won't be available for Canada for a while.
I saw a few video showing people using the 2 Dp's with the 30amp output connected to a Y adaptor going to their sub panel
and a neutral grounding plug ! what is that grounding plug do ? I assume their not using it has a UPS ...
Anyhow I am presently on wet cells with a auto fill system so upgrading will be a nice treat.
It seems like batteries is all I need and eventually upgrade my inverter
I've been going back and forth trying to make a good final decision which is not always easy with all the options available out there
A good advice was given to me get 2 or 4 - 48v 5kw and Mppt 6kw (6048) and be done with it.
Oh well !

 

[CaptMichel]

It's also a too bad that a DP cannot act as a “slave” Extra Battery.
Anyone has an idea on how to go about it would be great
retail battery $2,600.00 I have 4 delta pros @ a bit higher price then the battery retail price.
Rather keep them and make 2 of them slaves it's got to be a simple way ?

 

[Dank Farrik]

It's also a too bad that a DP cannot act as a “slave” Extra Battery.
Anyone has an idea on how to go about it would be great
retail battery $2,600.00 I have 4 delta pros @ $2,850.00
Rather keep them and make 2 of them slaves it's got to be a simple way ?

Hardware wise, there’s no reason why that can’t be supported via the Extra Battery post, which is a two way DC-DC port with data. But EF has to write the firmware feature for it. Maybe they can add it later if there is enough customer demand.

In the mean time, you can daisy chain them, but you will lose efficiency (due to extra inverter being on and extra AC/DC conversions). So what you can do is something like this:

AC outlet -> DP1 -> AC-DC SMPS -> DP2
AC outlet -> DP3 -> AC-DC SMPS -> DP4

Then DP2 + DP4 could connect to a Double Voltage Hub

 

[CaptMichel]

Yes that looks good to me, and thanks for confirming the lost of efficiency ?
Do you have a specific SMPS to recommend I believe the higher the voltage better would be the efficiency.!
I wonder if I could do something like that
I have a battery bank available lifePo 4x12vx300ah
You think that is a possibility ?
AC outlet -> DP1 -> AC-DC SMPS -> Battery bank 2x12v series for 24vdc -> DP2 DC input
AC outlet -> DP3 -> AC-DC SMPS -> Battery bank 2x12v series for 24vdc -> DP4 DC input

May be I could even put a timer on the SMPS1-3 and charge low peak hours and use DP2 DP4 during peak hours ?
Doing so I could find a SMPS that does not draw more then 1800w this way if I lose the grid the DP1-3 could charge the
Battery bank then the DP2-4
But what will stop the DP2-4 from charging once its full I suppose it would be automatic ?
I know getting a bit complicated ?

 

[CaptMichel]

I wonder how long the batteries would last on the DP2-4 being use on all the time
Hope the software keeps up with the cycles

 

[CaptMichel]

May be this could do the job ? Aims power 120ac 12/24vdc 75amps/37amps smart charger ?

​

 

[Dank Farrik]

May be this could do the job ? Aims power 120ac 12/24vdc 75amps/37amps smart charger ?

​

Battery chargers like that need to directly connect to the battery, not be in series with another charge controller. They will likely fight each other.

These 2 SMPS have been tested and is in use by multiple users in the EF community:

60v 72v 110v 18a 1000w 2000w 110v 220v Ac To Dc Pfc Smps Switching Power Supply - Buy Dc Power Supply 72v,Switching Power Supply 110v,Pfc Power Supply 12v Product on Alibaba.com

60v 72v 110v 18a 1000w 2000w 110v 220v Ac To Dc Pfc Smps Switching Power Supply - Buy Dc Power Supply 72v,Switching Power Supply 110v,Pfc Power Supply 12v Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09B4SQ6GW/

The first one is higher powered (on 240V input), has active PFC, and can be toggled using its toggle terminals, but takes 6-8 weeks to get there.

The 2nd one is lower powered, but can be had in under 2 weeks.

 

[CaptMichel]

You've been a great helping others has well
Again tuff to line up the right equipment when so many little surprises comes along
I surely appreciate all your time and your help
any way I could contact you by phone is it ok to do it with this chat or share email then phone later ?

 

[CaptMichel]

I like your recipe
AC outlet -> DP1 -> AC-DC SMPS -> DP2
AC outlet -> DP3 -> AC-DC SMPS -> DP4
Then DP2 + DP4 could connect to a Double Voltage Hub
But where could I get my battery bank in the middle of all this with out messing things up ?
Would be nice to add them for more power 7.2kwEF + 7.6kw battery bank. x2
AC outlet -> DP1 -> AC-DC SMPS -> Battery bank 2x12v S or P for 24vdc or 12vdc -> DP2 DC input
AC outlet -> DP3 -> AC-DC SMPS -> Battery bank 2x12v S or P for 24vdc or 12vdc -> DP4 DC input

 

[Dank Farrik]

I like your recipe
AC outlet -> DP1 -> AC-DC SMPS -> DP2
AC outlet -> DP3 -> AC-DC SMPS -> DP4
Then DP2 + DP4 could connect to a Double Voltage Hub
But where could I get my battery bank in the middle of all this with out messing things up ?
Would be nice to add them for more power 7.2kwEF + 7.6kw battery bank. x2
AC outlet -> DP1 -> AC-DC SMPS -> Battery bank 2x12v S or P for 24vdc or 12vdc -> DP2 DC input
AC outlet -> DP3 -> AC-DC SMPS -> Battery bank 2x12v S or P for 24vdc or 12vdc -> DP4 DC input

You can make this work if you really want to, but personally I wouldn't. You've now made the system way too complicated. If you are introducing your own battery banks, you might as well go with an all-in-one inverter charger like Growatt or MPP Solar, and leave DP out of the chain. Setup would be a lot easier, and there will be a lot fewer places for things to go wrong. Less is more. So either stick with EcoFlow ecosystem, or roll your own DIY system.

But assume you really want to make this work for some reason:

AC outlet --> Battery Charger for your battery bank --> Battery bank 1 --> DC Boost Converter (need to boost the voltage if you want more than 200-400W charging speed) --> DC output to DP 1 DC input --> AC-DC SMPS --> DP2
AC outlet --> Battery Charger for your battery bank --> Battery bank 2 --> DC Boost Converter (need to boost the voltage if you want more than 200-400W charging speed) -> DC output to DP 3 DC input --> AC-DC SMPS --> DP4

I would encourage you to not go down this route. Not only is this way more complex than it needs to be, you are going through extra conversion steps that lowers your overall efficiency.

Lastly, I don't do one on one consulting, but I would recommend you join the EF Delta Series group on Facebook:

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I'm one of the frequent contributors there, but there are several of us. Most of us are engineers and we are doing this on our free time to help out the community

 

[CaptMichel]

Again a big thank you
And I agree with all the way
I already have my own diy and really needs to replace batteries and eventually change my 4.4kw magnum inverter it’s done very well so far.
It’s just that those neat EF system looked very appealing
And could be practical in many ways.
But after all this reasearch and thanks to you for your answers
It is obvious that those portable system are not ready to replace a full home system for now.
To many small flaws and double the price per kw
Which I was ready to absorb but the limitations are a braking deal.
Again thanks
And I’m on the FB I will have to take the time to read more infos on there.
Take good care.