EG4 6000XP 120VAC Input vs. 240VAC - A Useful Feature?

[Marobel]

Just to be perfectly clear, I’ve already had a discussion with Jared from EG4 about this. He’s not sure if this is possible but replied that he’s asked the aEG4 technical staff about this. Jared, not trying to upset the Apple cart here. Just trying to get a consensus on this topic.

I’m wondering if there are other folks out there that are in the same situation as I am. How many of you would like to see their 6000 XP be able to use 120VAC as the AC input plus/instead of the 240VAC split phase currently required? As many of us are doing, this is going to be in a totally off-grid situation. Maybe out at a remote cabin site or private property somewhere in the boonies. Having to feed this with 240 V split phase AC is going to be troublesome. (Impossible) My small generator outputs only 120 V and there is no Electrical connection to any grid. Do you think a software change is possible or would this require an internal electro-mechanical modification? I fully understand the reduction in the pass-through amperage and the reduced battery charging capacities. But at this point, with only PV input, this is not going to be a long-term solution I can deal with.

I guess what I’m asking from EG4 marketing is what would it take to get an inverter for our demographic?

As I read in this forum and a few others I follow, the technical data sheets on this off grid inverter were a bit confusing. This has been reposted to General Discussions and edited a bit for clarity. I’m going to remove the other posting immediately.

 

[Mattb4]

There is one way this could be done but you need a step up transformer to take your 120vAC input and create 240vAC split phase output to feed the AIO. The AIO does not have anyway to accomplish this on its own. It basically needs the 240vAC input since when not running its two inverters for AC out it uses a relay to bypass them. It expects 240vAC present to run charging and with only one leg being hot nothing works.

For generator use it would be best to simply buy a 240vAC capable generator.

 

[timselectric]

Yup
A transformer is the only way.
The input voltage must match the output voltage.

There might be another option. But I haven't heard that anyone has tested it on the 6kxp.

My Growatt SPF-5000-ES (240v).
Will charge the batteries from 120v. (90v minimum)
But I can't have any loads connected. Because the output is matched to the input.

 

[Marobel]

There is one way this could be done but you need a step up transformer to take your 120vAC input and create 240vAC split phase output to feed the AIO. The AIO does not have anyway to accomplish this on its own. It basically needs the 240vAC input since when not running its two inverters for AC out it uses a relay to bypass them. It expects 240vAC present to run charging and with only one leg being hot nothing works.

For generator use it would be best to simply buy a 240vAC capable generator.

Thanks Mattb4. I guess that’s what I’m discussing here. Why does the AC input Need to be 240VAC? I understand that’s the way it was built or how the software work’s but is this design a Dead End for the 6000xp?

I’ve considered a chargeverter as well. But there is no chareverter that I know of that I can monitor through an app easily. I can see what the server rack (4x48 100Ah EG4 LLS) Plus this an added expense I wasn’t considering. But then again, who ever gets into a DIY project to save money!?!

 

[shayamip]

Running lower voltage means higher current in order to achieve the same capacity. Probably the AC->DC circuitry is not designed to handle the 2x current.

 

[Marobel]

Running lower voltage means higher current in order to achieve the same capacity. Probably the AC->DC circuitry is not designed to handle the 2x current.

I would only be using the 120 V to charge my server rack batteries. And likely only when the PV output couldn’t maintain them.

 

[timselectric]

Running lower voltage means higher current in order to achieve the same capacity. Probably the AC->DC circuitry is not designed to handle the 2x current.

Correct
That's why the output is derated when the voltage is lower. In my case, it's limited to 40%.

 

[Mattb4]

Thanks Mattb4. I guess that’s what I’m discussing here. Why does the AC input Need to be 240VAC? I understand that’s the way it was built or how the software work’s but is this design a Dead End for the 6000xp?

I’ve considered a chargeverter as well. But there is no chareverter that I know of that I can monitor through an app easily. I can see what the server rack (4x48 100Ah EG4 LLS) Plus this an added expense I wasn’t considering. But then again, who ever gets into a DIY project to save money!?!

Some AIO's will allow 120vAC in and 120vAC out by parallel operation of the two internal inverters. This means that a 6000w model is putting out 6000w at 120vAC instead of 2 hot legs of 3000w (L1 and L2) . None that I am aware of the HF style allow the inverters to accept 120vAC in and output 240vAC out. Those can be found in LF style I think but do not recall offhand which ones do that.

So if you need/want to use a 120vAC generator the only option is to buy a battery charger and run the AIO as an inverter 240vAC output only (No AC bypass)

 

[Marobel]

And I think that’s what’s going on here. Was not thinking about the 240VAC output (even though I am going to use L1 and L2 as individual 120v circuits). In my application we just don’t have the 240v usage but I can see where that would add a lot of complications for most everyone using this system. This should end my quest.

How about a recommendation on a good Chargeverter then?

 

[Mattb4]

And I think that’s what’s going on here. Was not thinking about the 240VAC output (even though I going to use L1 and L2 as individual 120v circuits). In my application we just don’t have the 240v usage but I can see where that would add a lot of complications for most everyone using this system. This should end my quest.

How about a recommendation on a good Chargeverter then?

Chargeverter is a trademarked brand from Signature Solar. There are places you can order a 16S (48vDC rated) LiFePO4 battery charger of various charging amperage and input voltages. Example below of a 50a unit off Aliexpress:

 

[timselectric]

How about a recommendation on a good Chargeverter then?

Nothing currently.
Version 1 was discontinued. (Best thing since sliced bread)
Version 2 is not yet released.
And hasn't been proven in the field, yet.
But at the $80 price increase, would be hard to recommend anyway.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Chargeverter is a trademarked brand from Signature Solar. There are places you can order a 16S (48vDC rated) LiFePO4 battery charger of various charging amperage and input voltages. Example below of a 50a unit off Aliexpress:

I think, with a bit of DIY, a power rectifier such as an Emerson R48-3000e3 would be much cheaper.

So why couldn't you split the 120V from the generator and feed both inputs to the 6000XP for charging only (assuming you don't overload the generator)?

 

[Mattb4]

I think, with a bit of DIY, a power rectifier such as an Emerson R48-3000e3 would be much cheaper.

So why couldn't you split the 120V from the generator and feed both inputs to the 6000XP for charging only (assuming you don't overload the generator)?

Legs would be in phase therefor voltage would be 0v when measured between them. To get 240vAC you have to have each hot leg 180 degrees apart.

 

[timselectric]

So why couldn't you split the 120V from the generator and feed both inputs to the 6000XP for charging only (assuming you don't overload the generator)?

The charger is connected to L1 and L2.
Even if it would work at 120v. The neutral would have to be connected to L2.