EG4 6000XP parallel operation with 4 inverters

[sjvicker]

I'm looking to buy my off-grid solar system in the next 6-9mo and I now finally feel like I'm in the window of time where there wont likely be a new piece of equipment released that will change the plan so its time to get serious about getting the equipment spec'd out.

I have a shed that will house my batteries and inverters and I plan to feed a 200amp panel in my shop and a 200amp panel in my house with AC from there. Ideally, I'd like to set up my system with 4 6000XP inverters to start and add if needed. Following a recent video from Will on the 6000XP it seems very straightforward to use a standard 200amp panel as the AC combiner box but how does this work in practice? In this case, wouldn't the 200amp breaker trip before I ever got into the surge capacity range on the inverters?

I searched but am likely searching the wrong terms so I haven't been able to find much. With all of these new stackable inverters able to provide well over 200amp AC, what's the go-to solutions for combining their AC outputs when you get 8+ inverters?

Thanks,
Spencer

 

[BentleyJ]

Are you referring to the 50A Pass-Thru or the 25A Inverter rating? If you are worried about tripping a 200A breaker due to surges then the panel is overloaded and this has nothing to do with the source of power.

 

[timselectric]

Breakers are designed to handle short duration surges.
200a should not be a problem, for 4 units.
It would probably be fine for 8 units.

 

[sjvicker]

Are you referring to the 50A Pass-Thru or the 25A Inverter rating? If you are worried about tripping a 200A breaker due to surges then the panel is overloaded and this has nothing to do with the source of power.

Hmm, I didn’t realize that was a pass through voltage and the inverter only outputs 25 amp continuous. That’s definitely lower than I expected but based on your comments and Tim’s it seems I’d be in pretty good shape copying Wills setup on his 6000xp you tube video.

 

[sjvicker]

Are you referring to the 50A Pass-Thru or the 25A Inverter rating? If you are worried about tripping a 200A breaker due to surges then the panel is overloaded and this has nothing to do with the source of power.

I think I wasn't maybe clear on the loads. I would have a 200amp panel in the shop and a 200amp panel in the house and both would connect at the 200amp combiner panel in the shed. I'm planning an induction stove, mini splits, elec water heater and dryer (likely heat pump) into the build and I think its likely that at some point the loads are going to line up with me working in the shop and pop the 200amp breaker at the combiner panel.

It seems for stacked inverters, all loads need to be combined at the same point and then sent out to point of use. I'm not sure how you do this combining when you have over 200amp of inverter supplied power.

If there was a way to run say 4 inverters stacked for the house and 3 for the shop and connect to the same battery bank I'd probably look to go this route but I'm not sure they can share the same battery bank.

 

[timselectric]

but I'm not sure they can share the same battery bank.

They can

 

[BentleyJ]

If there was a way to run say 4 inverters stacked for the house and 3 for the shop and connect to the same battery bank I'd probably look to go this route but I'm not sure they can share the same battery bank.

That is one of the upsides to a 240V inverter, they can be stacked 1 at a time and don't have to be in pairs.

 

[sjvicker]

They can

That is one of the upsides to a 240V inverter, they can be stacked 1 at a time and don't have to be in pairs.

So if I ran a stack of 4 for the house and a separate stack of 3 for the shop on the same LI battery bank, how would I handle the battery communications? The 6000XP manual doesn't say if the inverter requires the communication connection to the battery, only how to do it.

And at this rate, it seems the most cost effective solution might be to run the house on a stack of 4 with the communications and panels connected and then do a separate simpler pure sine inverter connected to the same battery bank to power the shop.

 

[redalertdt]

I think I wasn't maybe clear on the loads. I would have a 200amp panel in the shop and a 200amp panel in the house and both would connect at the 200amp combiner panel in the shed. I'm planning an induction stove, mini splits, elec water heater and dryer (likely heat pump) into the build and I think its likely that at some point the loads are going to line up with me working in the shop and pop the 200amp breaker at the combiner panel.

It seems for stacked inverters, all loads need to be combined at the same point and then sent out to point of use. I'm not sure how you do this combining when you have over 200amp of inverter supplied power.

If there was a way to run say 4 inverters stacked for the house and 3 for the shop and connect to the same battery bank I'd probably look to go this route but I'm not sure they can share the same battery bank.

My house looks like this. 2 minisplits (4 tons atm) Heat pump dryer, induction stove, etc. My max load without workshop loads is around 8-12kw. I think 4 6000xp's should be fine. I would recommend setting up Emporia for monitoring. It's pretty cheap, and I think you could probably get away with 2-3 inverters instead of 4.

 

[redalertdt]

So if I ran a stack of 4 for the house and a separate stack of 3 for the shop on the same LI battery bank, how would I handle the battery communications? The 6000XP manual doesn't say if the inverter requires the communication connection to the battery, only how to do it.

And at this rate, it seems the most cost effective solution might be to run the house on a stack of 4 with the communications and panels connected and then do a separate simpler pure sine inverter connected to the same battery bank to power the shop.

How much load do you have in the shop? Are you running plasma cutters and welders a lot? Most things on breakers use 1/3rd or less of the power that the breaker is rated for. You don't have to bring in a full 200a just because that's what was there. Even a 5hp table saw is probably only using 1-4kw when running.

There would be no reason to do that. Probably put all the inverters together in parallel and run sub panels where needed. Keep it as simple as possible. If you had to do that you can run them based on battery voltage.

 

[timselectric]

So if I ran a stack of 4 for the house and a separate stack of 3 for the shop on the same LI battery bank, how would I handle the battery communications? The 6000XP manual doesn't say if the inverter requires the communication connection to the battery, only how to do it.

And at this rate, it seems the most cost effective solution might be to run the house on a stack of 4 with the communications and panels connected and then do a separate simpler pure sine inverter connected to the same battery bank to power the shop.

I would stack them all as one system. No need to over complicate it.
I doubt that you will ever need more than 8 units.

 

[sjvicker]

How much load do you have in the shop? Are you running plasma cutters and welders a lot? Most things on breakers use 1/3rd or less of the power that the breaker is rated for. You don't have to bring in a full 200a just because that's what was there. Even a 5hp table saw is probably only using 1-4kw when running.

There would be no reason to do that. Probably put all the inverters together in parallel and run sub panels where needed. Keep it as simple as possible. If you had to do that you can run them based on battery voltage.

I plan to run welders, plasma cutters, a 2 post lift and some 3p equipment powered by VFD's, but you know, I still haven't figured out how to run more than one of them at a time. My welding is bad enough as it is when that's the only thing I'm doing.

You're right, I am probably over thinking this and should just start with 4, watch my loads and add as needed.

 

[redalertdt]

Sounds like some serious loads. Maybe the Solark 3 phase would be a good idea, put a 3 phase panel in then do a subpanel to the house with 208v (if that works for all the house loads).

 

[sjvicker]

Sounds like some serious loads. Maybe the Solark 3 phase would be a good idea, put a 3 phase panel in then do a subpanel to the house with 208v (if that works for all the house loads).

Nah, nothing too serious for 3p. I currently have a belt grinder I built off some Etsy plans and have dreams about adding a mill and lathe but even with those added its not like I can do 2 things at once.

 

[timselectric]

I would plan for 4 units and start with just 2.
Most services are rarely loaded more than 30%.
Unless there is electric furnace strip heating. (All bets off)

 

[dougbert]

I would plan for 4 units and start with just 2.
Most services are rarely loaded more than 30%.
Unless there is electric furnace strip heating. (All bets off)

yeah I like this plan

as the 200 amp 'combiner' panel is what gives you future expansion

all the breakers slots would be available for current and future inverter

the MAIN breaker (200 amp) of that panel would feed the "nearby" 200 amp loads panel - MAIN to MAIN. From that loads panel you can split to the 2 sub-panels for house and shop - yeah, 2 200 amp breakers from that nearby loads panel. with this you have the option for many inverters, but as you said, just put the 2 load 200 amp breakers on the other side of the combiner panel

here is a homline 200 amp, sure there is a QO plus other vendors

https://www.amazon.com/HOM2200-Molded-Circuit-Breaker-HOMELINE/dp/B093GKZ9L5/ref=sr_1_2?crid=11B1JTP94WIPX&keywords=hom2200&qid=1702421934&s=hi&sprefix=hom2200%2Ctools%2C152&sr=1-2&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0

but others know more than I. this follows Will's pattern/architecture in his video and just differs in scale. He mentions the need for larger wire for more inverters

just get the large DC buss bar to connect the battery(s) and all the inverters to

Again, I like this model