electrical panel upgrade.

[tmmonty22]

Any advice on electrical panel upgrades?

We have to upgrade our electrical panel when we remodel our bathrooms. I was looking at smart panels and they seem to make sense.

- use 12kwh a day.
- currently 20 year old gas water heater - replacing this year
- gas heater with ducting - 30 years old - replacing this year - looking at heat pump or radiant heat panels as an option.

Weather is mild here and no real need for air conditioning.

I want to build my own solar system and use the batteries to use as little of the grid as possible. Use the solar panels with a solar generator to charge the batteries. I know upgrading water heater and looking at heating options will increase the amount of electricity we use.

I also need to upgrade my solar system in sportmoble camper van that keeps us off the grid completely when using it.

With all that being said I wanted to use Ecoflow so I could upgrade my camper at the same time I am doing my home battery/solar system. This would allow me to use the Ecoflow batteries from the house and put in the camper when we travel. It really is silly for the batteries currently in the camper to not be used and just sit there when we are not traveling.


The reason for using the smart panel is I want the system to decide on battery vs solar and have the whole house able to be on battery during peak hours. I noticed the smart panel can restrict what batteries/ solar systems you use. I do not want a panel that just allows part of the bouse to be on battery and are mainly for power outages.

I am totally overthinking the panel?

With the SNAP smart panel you only need the electrical pane, battery and inverter. It is supposed to help the system run more efficiently with monitoring use and make adjustments.

With out a smart panel you need to have a gutter box, solar inverter, critical loads panel and auto transformer switch.


I just need to know are smart panel still too new worry about? I have to upgrade the panel and I do not want to waste the money later once I figure out want solar and battery system I plan on putting into place after the remodel.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Looks interesting. This one right??

SPAN® Home | Smarter energy is here

SPAN creates products to enable electrification for all

www.span.io

Searched forum only got price = $4k ??

 

[BentleyJ]

The Span product looks interesting but I would rather use a more mainstream product from a large established company like Leviton or Schneider.

The Leviton Smart Load Center

The new load center from Leviton features smart circuit breakers that have Wi-Fi connectivity built in.

www.leviton.com

Square D Energy Center QO 200 Amp 51-Space 61-Circuit Main Breaker Meter Combo Load Center Solar-Battery-Generator-Ready CSED QOWC60M200PFY - The Home Depot

The Square D Energy Center is an electrical panel that makes it easy to add distributed energy resources like solar, battery, and/or generators to new construction homes. The Energy Center features a backup ready, split-bus interior, eliminating the need for a separate backup panel to be added...

www.homedepot.com

 

[Hedges]

I was thinking about price too. Schneider has a similarly expensive one.
But especially if you're paying someone for installation, the time savings of an integrated unit may pay for itself upfront.

Perhaps other control systems would be more cost effective. Heating and cooling already have low power thermostat wire you could switch. Water heater and dryer have high power thermostats, so power relay would be required.

When replacing a utility panel, look forward to how you will comply with "120% rule" and possibly battery backup.
A 200A busbar and 200A main breaker is allowed 200A x 120% - 200A = 40A PV breaker. Use a 150A main breaker and 90A PV breaker is allowed. Use a 225A busbar with 200A main breaker and 70A PV breaker is allowed.

I selected a main breaker disconnect box with 200A breaker and no busbar. I will install Polaris connector (rated 400A or so) and run wires to a new 200A sub panel. No 120% rule to worry about, can connect a 200A disconnect to Polaris if I want for PV system. (Almost) all my breakers and panels are QO series (with a few exceptions for various reasons.)

You should have a provision for critical loads always on like phone, alarm, any AC coupled PV (maybe a separate panel for this.) And less important backed up loads. Separate for excessive loads you never try to run off batteries or PV (electric furnace, arc welder?)

Check utility rates and do math on gas vs. electricity resistance vs. heatpump, make sure you aren't being persuaded to jack up your utility costs several fold. When just supplying water heater and stove, my gas bill was typically $8/month, does not justify any changes. If gas rates go through the roof, maybe. My hot water consumption is low enough that electric resitance water heater makes more sense than heat pump. If used for hydronic heating, then maybe. I'll consider all that for my new place to which I'm adding PV. I'm going to add radiators for unconditioned downstairs, consider heat-pump preheater before existing gas water heater.

If you are going to be under NEM 3.0 (or other non 1:1 net metering) within the lifespan of your new appliances, what you would like is continuously variable loads to shoot for zero export/import. Much cheaper to have VFD speed control than battery storage to do the same. But I don't know of anything designed/integrated for that purpose; VFD is used to prevent mini-split cycling but doesn't talk to CT on utility grid connection. Would need controller monitoring grid current and dialing thermostat up and down to zero the current.

 

[Ampster]

There is a lot of value in having a smart panel. I replaced my main panel almost two years ago and divided the loads into two sub panels, one for heavy loads like dryer, oven and EV charging and the other for essential loads which I wanted to have backed up. A smart panel would allow you to manage oven and dryer loads and even EV charging. They way my rate plan works is there is sometimes a benefit to charging my EVs from excess solar instead of paying a Non Bypassable Charge to charge from the grid. It also depends on the time of the year and the relationship betwee my cumulative charges as I progress toward True Up. All the above could be managed by a smart panel.