Enphase battery questions!!!!!!

[California760]

So im trying to understand the functions between this batterys
Ive seen several designs from the enphase site just cant seem to wrap my head about the different functions can you elaborate a bit

NO POWER OUTAGE
1.) solar+ combiner box+battery
No load controller
No heavy loads
No iq controller
So what does battery do in this setup?

POWER OUTAGE CAPABILITY
2.) Then ive seen
solar+combiner box+ IQ controller for power outages
No heavy loads
No load controller
So what do battery's do in this setup?


POWER OUTAGE CAPABILITY
3.) last option ive seen
Solar+combiner box+ IQ controller + 1 load controller for 2 heavy loads
Or 2 load controllers for 4 heavy loads.


SO IF OPTION # 2 and option #3 are for power outages why does option 2 not offer load controllers isn't that what makes your appliances kick on when power goes out?
Vs the option # 3 where it offers load controllers for your appliances which that makes a bit sense to me

So what does that mean kinda confused?

So now going back to option # 1 if it has a battery but does nothing when the power goes out what exactly is this battery doin?
Is it just feeding the grid at nights? Or when panels are not producing for a cloudy day

Can someone elaborate on this please and help me understand the function between
All 3 options

Thank You

 

[400bird]

I'm surprised there haven't been any responses here.
I believe the load controller drop loads when your battery/solar can't support them, so they allow connection of heavy loads. Otherwise, I think you are limited to lighting and other small loads.

I don't see the Enphase batteries listed on any of the 3 options. Enphase does that the ability to form a nanogrid with just their micro inverters, but it's limited. Adding batteries gets you back up when the sun is behind a cloud or planet.

I believe @svetz has a Enphase system with their batteries and might be able to answer some of your questions.

 

[svetz]

I'm surprised there haven't been any responses here.

Not really sure what they're asking and that's probably why most posts don't get responses (see this post for more). This makes it particularly tough for beginners as learning the vernacular is half the battle so thanks for linking me... while I'm here, I give it a shot...

Apologies in advance @California760 if I misconstrued it too much. The problem I ran into is your configurations are confusing as they can mean different things. If you're questioning something you saw in a link or document, linking that might help. You probably know most of this shotgun response....hopefully it'll help you narrow in on what you're looking for.

...if it has a battery but does nothing when the power goes out what exactly is this battery doin?

The purpose of the battery is to A) supply off-grid or outage power, B) reduce TOU charges, C) have fun cutting open (Looking at you Will P. ). Sorry, couldn't resist having a little fun with that. I'm sure some people online here use them as doorstops too.

...

If you have an Enphase IQ Battery, you must have an IQ Controller and an IQ Gateway (which is typically found in the combiner box).

They do have a "sunlight backup" option that doesn't require batteries, but it still takes an IQ Controller and an IQ Gateway.

In regards to:

...No load controller...No heavy loads...

So, what do you mean by a load controller? Two things come to mind:

1. Solar charge controller - With Enphase, the solar charge controller is built into the microinverter. Each panel self-optimizes. Microinverters include a lot of things that might have to be added onto some string systems (e.g., arc fault, rapid shutdown).
2. IQ Load Controller - This is an optional device that can be added to any configuration. It lets you turn on/off circuits based on battery state (e.g., battery drops to 50% you turn off your AC so the refrigerator stays on through the night.) They also have a cheaper device that allows individual circuits to switched on/off. You can also use the relays in the IQ Controller to DIY your own power relays to control circuits, although pretty sure the super convenient GUI won't be available in Enlighten.

Heavy Loads
That's more a sizing question I think. Sounds like gimmicky sales talk rather than anything useful.

Well let's talk loads. If you want 3 kW of power with 5 kW of surge for backup, then from the IQ3 datasheet you'd see it can peak to 8.2 amps for 10s or about ~2KW, so for 5 kW surge you'd need 3 batteries. For just 3 kW of continuous power you'd only need 2 batteries. To know how many batteries for how many hours of backup you'd need an energy audit. A softstarter might allow you to reduce the inrush of a demanding device, so you might be able to get away with two for the inrush if that's enough kWh.

Hope that's of some help!

 

[California760]

Not really sure what they're asking and that's probably why most posts don't get responses (see this post for more). This makes it particularly tough for beginners as learning the vernacular is half the battle so thanks for linking me... while I'm here, I give it a shot...

Apologies in advance @California760 if I misconstrued it too much. The problem I ran into is your configurations are confusing as they can mean different things. If you're questioning something you saw in a link or document, linking that might help. You probably know most of this shotgun response....hopefully it'll help you narrow in on what you're looking for.



The purpose of the battery is to A) supply off-grid or outage power, B) reduce TOU charges, C) have fun cutting open (Looking at you Will P. ). Sorry, couldn't resist having a little fun with that. I'm sure some people online here use them as doorstops too.


If you have an Enphase IQ Battery, you must have an IQ Controller and an IQ Gateway (which is typically found in the combiner box).

They do have a "sunlight backup" option that doesn't require batteries, but it still takes an IQ Controller and an IQ Gateway.

In regards to:

So, what do you mean by a load controller? Two things come to mind:

1. Solar charge controller - With Enphase, the solar charge controller is built into the microinverter. Each panel self-optimizes. Microinverters include a lot of things that might have to be added onto some string systems (e.g., arc fault, rapid shutdown).
2. IQ Load Controller - This is an optional device that can be added to any configuration. It lets you turn on/off circuits based on battery state (e.g., battery drops to 50% you turn off your AC so the refrigerator stays on through the night.) They also have a cheaper device that allows individual circuits to switched on/off. You can also use the relays in the IQ Controller to DIY your own power relays to control circuits, although pretty sure the super convenient GUI won't be available in Enlighten.

Heavy Loads
That's more a sizing question I think. Sounds like gimmicky sales talk rather than anything useful.

Well let's talk loads. If you want 3 kW of power with 5 kW of surge for backup, then from the IQ3 datasheet you'd see it can peak to 8.2 amps for 10s or about ~2KW, so for 5 kW surge you'd need 3 batteries. For just 3 kW of continuous power you'd only need 2 batteries. To know how many batteries for how many hours of backup you'd need an energy audit. A softstarter might allow you to reduce the inrush of a demanding device, so you might be able to get away with two for the inrush if that's enough kWh.

View attachment 183577

Hope that's of some help!

So what im trying to ask if you can run a battery without iq controller

I saw in actual enphase website where you can run a battery straight to the combiner box with no iq controller needed

I also saw a different option
Where the battery is connected to the IQ controller itself

Then the last option i seen is battery connected to iq controller and loads from the main service panel back to the IQ load controller

Your saying i need an iq controller regardless but why do some wire straight to the combiner box 4 or 5 instead of the iq controller

Imma post a pictures of what im talking about

 

[svetz]

You're right, there's no reason to have a IQ Battery without some sort of backup AFAIK. You can definitely be grid-tied with Enphase without an IQ System controller or IQ Battery.

So what im trying to ask if you can run a battery without iq controller

AFAIK the IQ System Controller is required if you're going to have a battery or sunlight backup. Even if you're offgrid I suspect you need one as it does a lot of things.

I saw in actual enphase website where you can run a battery straight to the combiner box with no iq controller needed

Can you provide a link to the document with the "no backup" configuration? Possibly there is something in the fine print or the discussion around the picture to explain it (or it's just an error in the diagram). But that diagram doesn't make sense to me so I can see why you're questioning it.

Where the battery is connected to the IQ controller itself

That's the way mine is, photo here (Enpower is the old name for the IQ System Controller, Encharge is the old name for the IQ Battery).

Your saying i need an iq controller regardless but why do some wire straight to the combiner box 4 or 5 instead of the iq controller

Technically you could connect them electrically (it's internal microinverters should synchronize the power), but what's controlling them? That's why I'm interested in the source. Possibly something has changed that I'm not aware of (I have the version 1.0 gear, not the latest greatest).

 

[solar8484]

With the new iQ5p battery it's not necessary to have a System Controller (i.e. conig #1). The purpose is to minimize system cost for only on-grid TOU load shaving usage. It's a gimmick IMHO.

 

[svetz]

With the new iQ5p battery it's not necessary to have a System Controller (i.e. conig #1). The purpose is to minimize system cost for only on-grid TOU load shaving usage. It's a gimmick IMHO.

Thanks! I hadn't seen that! TOU costs have been pretty significant, but as places like California change the laws that might be changing.

Here's a link for those interested.

This might be what the OP was seeing. The battery doesn't look like a "backup power" system because without an IQ System Controller there's no mechanical way I see to prevent back-feeding the grid. I suspect it's primarily to decrease TOU charges as @solar8484 said. I have seen that it can be used for backup power, but suspect it needs an IQ System Controller (or something similar to do so).

I can see I need to go back to Enphase University and learn about the new stuff.

 

[rockytop]

I can't speak for the 5P as we can't get them in canada yet
my installer initially tried to sell me on sunlight backup.. that to me is a real gimmick as our solar in the winter in this
area is minimal.. to achieve sunlight backup you require IQ8 micro inverters plus a controller 2.. at the end of the day I went for those as
well as 2 IQ10T batteries..
was it worth it? who knows.. in essence the batteries are on 100% backup in the event of grid failure.. in so far as we're on net metering and not TOU if I discharge the batteries and then let the grid recharge them I import more power than I used to get them back to 100% SOC.. if I have the
solar recharge them it becomes a wash as well.. it was power I could have consumed or exported..

 

[wheisenburg]

On grid only batteries is a fairly common configuration in Europe. Europe's TOU rates can actually justify buying power or storing it from PV production during off peak rates and then selling it back during peak rates. These devices are just like grid tied solar. They may save you money, but obviously don't work off grid. They are typically AC coupled, simple to install and relatively cheap.

Adding off grid backup introduces all types of complications. You have either install you inverter between the meter and your main panel or create a critical loads panel and move the circuits you want onto it. There are often transfer switches, disconnects, new electrical panels, and lots of rewiring involved. I have an entire wall of equipment to get off-grid backup. These on grid batteries simply plug in and that's it. It's like installing a grid tied inverter.

 

[LikeWithMike]

I can confirm IQ3/10 and 3T/10T all can run on a solar only grid tied install with IQ7s or newer with only an Envoy or Combiner box. I did this with my original install and ran it in Self Consumption mode. During day excess solar goes to batts instead of grid and after dark batts discharge until depleted to whatever you set the discharge levels down to.

Grid down scenario, unless you do a large array i.e. 15kw and larger or don't have large loads like an AC or dryer i'd have at least one battery. You need the IQ Combiner + System Controller for this. From personal experience my 10yr old 16seer 5ton AC (No soft start) can start both on batts or solar only, but my lights deff dim when it kicks on Solar needs to be above 12k w AC ish for it to have enough power to start w/ my batts off. Outside the AC, my oven dryer or even my newer 4 ton AC don't even cause lights to dim on sunlight or batt when off grid. I have 51 IQ8s on 400w panels for ref.

 

[svetz]

...These devices are just like grid tied solar. They may save you money, but obviously don't work off grid. ... off grid backup introduces all types of complications..

A lot of grid-tied solar can now function when the grid is out (or in an off-grid scenario). Enphase's battery and microinverters for example can work when the grid is out and it's not particularly complicated. ref

I'm waiting for the bidirectional charging rather than buy more batteries for emergency power (I'd prefer to use the EV).