Existing Cabin Panel

[indaUPeh]

Wow lots of information on this forum. Kind of like drinking from a fire hose. I love how active the community is.

I joined up after this year's deer camp and a headache I'm no long interested in dealing with. The 'cabin' is a mid 90's modular home (basically a glorified double wide). It is miles from being tied to the grid so we use a generator to power the 115 shallow well jet pump and a microwave. We will use some lights when the generator is running, otherwise we have plenty of lanterns and propane lights.

My issue is some members of the hunting party can't seem to grasp needing the generator on to run water. Multiple flushes at night and some hand washing and all of a sudden I'm priming the pump again in the morning. I'd love to have a 12V system to just be able to kick the pump on once at night.

I know a well pump and 12V isn't ideal, but I understand that portion of the equation. When I open camp up in spring I'll see what it draws for in-rush and if it's feasible. The utility room is wide open since we have no washer/dryer so I have space for batteries and equipment.

What I'm curious about is an avenue to wire a LF inverter/charger to the existing in wall, flush mounted panel in that room. Is there a way to do this where it can sense that somebody started the generator? The reason I want to do this, would be to be able to turn a light on if needed anywhere in the cabin or have a box fan running in whatever room I'm sleeping in during the often hot fall planting season.

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

 

[seneysolar]

Short answer is yes.

The inverter output will feed the panel.

Your generator input will feed the inverter.

When the generator is running, a transfer switch inside inverter passes electricity through to cabin. Excess power is used to recharge batteries via a built in charger.

Id recommend a 24v system, but yes it can be done with 12.

 

[indaUPeh]

To be clear the generator is located in a barn and a gen cord is wired to a box, through conduit to the cabin main panel. Mimicking utility service. I'm under the impression I would need to interrupt that feed to the panel but am looking to see if I can get away without cutting too many holes to make a break.

 

[seneysolar]

You are correct. The inverter would go midstream between the generator and the panel.

Inverter system can go in the barn as well, use the incoming generator wiring.

 

[Rednecktek]

Ionic sells a 2kw and 3kw 12v AIO that you could throw in between the generator and the panel. That should be enough for your well pump and usage if you're using a 3500w generator or less.

 

[LakeHouse]

My issue is some members of the hunting party can't seem to grasp needing the generator on to run water. Multiple flushes at night and some hand washing and all of a sudden I'm priming the pump again in the morning. I'd love to have a 12V system to just be able to kick the pump on once at night.

If this really the only issue, the easiest solution might be a 12V RV-style water pump, a 12V car battery, and a small battery charger. Plumb the pump in parallel with your jet pump, then at night when pressure drops and your jet has no power, the 12V pump brings pressure back up. Keep the battery charger plugged in, and when the generator is running, it'll charge your battery back up.

But also, I fully support going whole-hog here and switching the entire cabin over to solar/battery/inverter. Your setup could end up looking similar to mine: AiO, 48V battery bank, and solar that normally powers everything and is wire directly to the cabin main panel, with a generator wired into the AiO that can be used to power loads and/or charge the battery.

 

[seneysolar]

X2 for going "whole hog" as lakehouse mentioned solar/inverter/battery. You wont regret it.

 

[indaUPeh]

I appreciate the ideas. I like the ionic AIO for in the barn. It's only going to be used for 2.5 months worth of weekends out of the year so I'd like to keep the investment down.

I'll need to figure out how to protect it from porcupine and raccoon excrement.

 

[seneysolar]

I would stay away from the "all in one" units. Youll want to switch it off when you leave, but then the solar is also off... . If you switch off an all in one unit and you have say 50% batteries, you return to 50% next weekend, not ideal.

Having a stand alone charge controller recovers and keeps your batteries full when youre gone while the inverter is off. Then you start your next weekend on full charge.

Maybe someone knows of one that keeps solar on? Otherwise a traditional LF inverter charger with separate mppt would serve you well.

Im a fan of Aims products for off grid cabins on a budget but im a tad biased on that. Victron and Outback are top choices as well (just pricey) and will last for years.

 

[LakeHouse]

I would stay away from the "all in one" units. Youll want to switch it off when you leave, but then the solar is also off... . If you switch off an all in one unit and you have say 50% batteries, you return to 50% next weekend, not ideal.

I won’t speak for all of them, but my particular AiO is not like this. The switch turns off the inverter, but leaves the MPPT charge controller active. My impression is that most of the AiO’s are like this.

 

[Rednecktek]

I would stay away from the "all in one" units. Youll want to switch it off when you leave, but then the solar is also off... . If you switch off an all in one unit and you have say 50% batteries, you return to 50% next weekend, not ideal.

Both my MPP and my Growatt will charge from solar with the main switch off on the front. Not sure about the Ionic but I'll try to test that once mine gets here next week with a bench setup.

I'll need to figure out how to protect it from porcupine and raccoon excrement.

A black tote from the hardware store can easily fit everything inside, just drill a few small holes for the wires going in and out. When you get there and take the lid off to turn everything on, just leave it off. When you leave, close it up. You can mount it on a shelf or get a cheapie work bench or shelf unit to get it up off the ground if you want.

 

[rodrick]

Not sure about the Ionic but I'll try to test that once mine gets here next week with a bench setup.

That aio looks good idle consumption is only 15 watts and it must be a lf due to the fact it weighs 46 pounds if it checks out well it could be a good substitute for a multiplus for those on a tighter budget but want a lf inverter

 

[Rednecktek]

That 15w I believe is for the 2Kw version, I would expect the 3Kw to be 20-25w or so which is still pretty good.

 

[seneysolar]

I won’t speak for all of them, but my particular AiO is not like this. The switch turns off the inverter, but leaves the MPPT charge controller active. My impression is that most of the AiO’s are like this.

Ok, good. I am not familiar with all of them. That was my only concern.

I installed a Sol-ark 12k last year and was disappointed to find it would not charge when inverter was off. The one switch turns everything off.

 

[indaUPeh]

Both my MPP and my Growatt will charge from solar with the main switch off on the front. Not sure about the Ionic but I'll try to test that once mine gets here next week with a bench setup.


A black tote from the hardware store can easily fit everything inside, just drill a few small holes for the wires going in and out. When you get there and take the lid off to turn everything on, just leave it off. When you leave, close it up. You can mount it on a shelf or get a cheapie work bench or shelf unit to get it up off the ground if you want.

Saw a note about only shipping domestically in Canada. Maybe that is just for batteries? What country are you in?

Very interested in your bench test.

 

[Rednecktek]

They're shipping mine to Seattle so international does happen.

Should be here next friday so I'll hopefully get a bench test next weekend.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Your budget for the convenience is relevant. $3500 will get you a decent but small 48V AIO system.
A small 400W 12V system- 1 panel, one battery, a 1012LV- could be done ~$900 but how many amps for the pump is an issue maybe with a 1kW output.

 

[seneysolar]

A Victron multiplus II, 3k/24v/70a inverter charger can be had for $1050, victron mppt 100/30 for $130.

I have a pallet of Hyundai 365w panels here in northern MI, 2 for $220 and id be happy to deliver. Yes 2 panels would easily support a weekend 24v system.

4 golf cart 6v would get you up and running. Cheap ones are around $120ea. (BUT If going inside the cabin, you'll need sealed)

Budget maybe $200 for cables, breakers, and fuses and so on

So youd have a bare bones - basic Victron system up and running for roughly $2200. assuming you do it all yourself. Plus its all scalable if you want to build on it later.

 

[indaUPeh]

Very tempting. I've got a pair of brand new 12V LiTime 100ah so I could series them with that setup. When camp is going we will typically run the generator for dinner and drinks so I know we'd have a full charge available.

Myself or my father would be pretty frugal the rest of the time on weekends. He has a few matched 12v 100ah batteries as well, just not the same as mine.

Having those panels would make my week alone of bow hunting pretty comfortable.

 

[indaUPeh]

A Victron multiplus II, 3k/24v/70a inverter charger can be had for $1050, victron mppt 100/30 for $130.

I'll have to check in inrush of my pump when I open camp in the spring. I vaguely remember it pulling over 12 amps running. Having everything Victron would be kind of cool if I ever moved the setup to civilization and could use the interfacing options.

I have a pallet of Hyundai 365w panels here in northern MI, 2 for $220 and id be happy to deliver. Yes 2 panels would easily support a weekend 24v system.

From your name, I'm guessing you are near the refuge? I'm down by the Garden peninsula. Neighbor camp had a picture of a moose that must have originated from there.