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diy solar

From office UPS to whole house... my journey

Still need to do some cable management, but todays progress:

Mounted.jpg

Two tidbits: The little black box on top is a cheap-ass LiFePO4 charger rated at 10amp - Cerbo is showing it providing 6.4 amps - good enough.
Cerbo display is also a cheap-ass (think $39) display. Out of the box the touchscreen doesn't work, but I can always go in via VictronConnect on my phone, so don't really need touchsceen service.

Next up: Wiring the Multiplus IIs into the service and critical load panels. Those panels are mounted, and breakers installed. Just need to figure out how I want to do conduit. The 6/2 (50amp) wire I'll be using is outdoor rated, stranded but extremely stiff, and about 3/4" wide by a bit over 1/4" inch.

Next stop: Home Depot!
 
Just be aware I think those can output a max of 63A each with power assist so a 50A solution may be undersized.
 
Just be aware I think those can output a max of 63A each with power assist so a 50A solution may be undersized.

Well, technically 6 AWG is 55 amp rated, but will be plugging them into 50A breakers. This is all just an experiment prior to a future project to wire up my whole house.
 
And the journey continues!

Today's progress:

Progress.jpg


As usual these days, Frank (16 in 4days) helped a lot. Both inverters are now powered up. We hooked up the first load - my Carrier split heat pump AC/Heater - the only 240V system in the office besides the arc welder in the adjoining workshop. VOM is showing 244.5 volts across the critical load panel, evenly split between the two sides.

AC is working nicely on this rather warm 88F degree day. Per the Cerbo:

FirstLoad.jpg

It was a little behind when we energized it, so that is a peak load for it. Right now, having caught up, its pulling 536 watts.

Couple of questions:

1) Why is the Cerbo displaying "Ext. control"?
2) The Multiplus IIs are both showing being in Absorbtion mode, which is reasonable given the 81% SOC, but my SOK BMs is not showing any current flowing into the batteries???
 
Updated the Cerbo to V3.33 and the batteries are now charging for real.

Charging.jpg

Now I need to update my MK3, but that will have to wait until Wednesday when my cheap ($211!!!) refurbished Dell laptop arrives. Wasn't in the mood to run long USB extension cords, and will need the laptop for the house project someday.
 
Just playing around... limited the charging current to 20Amps, which is low enough the Multiplus II fans stay off. This is an office after all... <smile>

Under the Cerbo DVCC settings, Controlling BMS is being automatically selected (can't seem to change that), and its reporting I'm running Pylontech batteries (instead of the SOK ones that are actually connected). Minor thing, but strange.
 
Just playing around... limited the charging current to 20Amps, which is low enough the Multiplus II fans stay off. This is an office after all... <smile>

Under the Cerbo DVCC settings, Controlling BMS is being automatically selected (can't seem to change that), and its reporting I'm running Pylontech batteries (instead of the SOK ones that are actually connected). Minor thing, but strange.
Pylontech is the protocol being used by the SOKs I believe
 
Cerbo just gave me a high voltage battery alarm: 55.46V and slowly dropping per the SOK BMS. I hope this is just the system doing its first balancing effort? Per the app and LEDs, Victron's are in Absorption mode with the batteries at 97% SoC, down to 54.93V (per app)/55.17V per 1st pack BMS and charging at 2.9A.

Is this normal?
 
Well... Phase 2 is close to wrapping up. I've been vacillating between a minimal "critical load" being run by the inverters vs. a "most of the office" being run by the inverters. Was set on the critical load approach until I rubber ducked the whole system to my daughter over lunch (I know, not the most exciting lunch time conversation!).

So the purpose of Phase 2 was to be a test system prior to implementing Phase 4 (Phase 3 is adding solar to the Phase 2 system), which will likely be 4-8 times as expensive, depending on how Phase 2 and 3 go. To that end, I was looking to build (3) strings of PV arrays - one traditionally south facing at a slant, and two vertical east/west strings (string 1 would have the fronts facing east, string 2 would have the fronts facing west to balance morning and evening efficiency a bit).

Since this is a 48V system, I need 53V to start most MPPT controllers (BV+5V). Given a 25% temp correction for our cold winters, a 250V MPPT will only be able to support 5 panels (60V nominal, ~232V Open Circuit). A 450V MPPT would be able to handle 9 panels in a string (108V nominal, ~417V Open Circuit).

Trying to weigh the pros and cons: 250V is cheaper, (2) of which would provide me (6) string support, 5 panels per string, so up to 30 panels (Hey, that's a pallet load!) for about $1225 plus shipping (excluding panels). But I only really need 3 strings of 9 - still, could do a few extra panels and run (6) strings of 5 panels. Power producing hours would likely be less than 9 panels strings though. Of course, wiring cost would double vs. 450V.

Given a 3 string minimum, 450V means the top-of-the-line Victron (my default so far) MPPT 450/200 at $2155 plus shipping (excluding panels). I'd also have (1) of a component, and rather prefer 2+ to avoid single points of failure. But that is one NICE unit. On the other hand, the Phase 4 project would have several, and it would be nice to gain experience with the exact product being used for Phase 4. Same for dealing with 9 panel strings vs. 5 panel ones. The alternative would be (2) MPPT 450/100s, slightly more expensive at $2462, but eliminates the single point of failure concern and they should otherwise behave the same as the 450/200.

Not 100% locked into Victron MPPT - do need something CAN.bus compatible, and of course, going pure Victron pretty much ensures that. Do want to stick with MPPT devices available from CurrentConnected. For instance, the Midnite Classic 250V, with HyperVOC, could handle an extra panel per string since its really a 298V unit. Behavior would be a bit different, with the units shutting down on the coldest days until the Open Circuit voltage dropped as the day warmed, but that is a rare. The MidNite Hawke's Bay looks interesting, handling up to 12 panels per string if I'm willing to live with ultra cold weather shutdowns. Only two strings, so would need 2, similar to the Victron 450/100 config except with more panel capability (and panels are, lets face it, one of the cheapest parts of the system these days).

Midnights come with a 5 year warranty, didn't spot the warranty period on Victrons?

Thoughts?
 
Beyond charge controllers there is the question about panels. Flipped through the CurrentConnected pages and my current favorite is the Hyperion 400W, limited a bit by my need for Bifacial panels for one of my tests.

Are all suppliers of Hyperion HY-DH108P6B's selling the same product? I've seen differences in warranty, with some sites listing 15 years, and others 25 years. Price seems to vary wildly as well, from ~$6000+$250 shipping for a pallet of 36 (~$175/panel) to $4420 with free shipping (apparently on sale) for apparently the same thing (~$123/panel)? That is a huge difference.
 
Well... Phase 2 is close to wrapping up. I've been vacillating between a minimal "critical load" being run by the inverters vs. a "most of the office" being run by the inverters. Was set on the critical load approach until I rubber ducked the whole system to my daughter over lunch (I know, not the most exciting lunch time conversation!).

So the purpose of Phase 2 was to be a test system prior to implementing Phase 4 (Phase 3 is adding solar to the Phase 2 system), which will likely be 4-8 times as expensive, depending on how Phase 2 and 3 go. To that end, I was looking to build (3) strings of PV arrays - one traditionally south facing at a slant, and two vertical east/west strings (string 1 would have the fronts facing east, string 2 would have the fronts facing west to balance morning and evening efficiency a bit).

Since this is a 48V system, I need 53V to start most MPPT controllers (BV+5V). Given a 25% temp correction for our cold winters, a 250V MPPT will only be able to support 5 panels (60V nominal, ~232V Open Circuit). A 450V MPPT would be able to handle 9 panels in a string (108V nominal, ~417V Open Circuit).

Trying to weigh the pros and cons: 250V is cheaper, (2) of which would provide me (6) string support, 5 panels per string, so up to 30 panels (Hey, that's a pallet load!) for about $1225 plus shipping (excluding panels). But I only really need 3 strings of 9 - still, could do a few extra panels and run (6) strings of 5 panels. Power producing hours would likely be less than 9 panels strings though. Of course, wiring cost would double vs. 450V.

Given a 3 string minimum, 450V means the top-of-the-line Victron (my default so far) MPPT 450/200 at $2155 plus shipping (excluding panels). I'd also have (1) of a component, and rather prefer 2+ to avoid single points of failure. But that is one NICE unit. On the other hand, the Phase 4 project would have several, and it would be nice to gain experience with the exact product being used for Phase 4. Same for dealing with 9 panel strings vs. 5 panel ones. The alternative would be (2) MPPT 450/100s, slightly more expensive at $2462, but eliminates the single point of failure concern and they should otherwise behave the same as the 450/200.

Not 100% locked into Victron MPPT - do need something CAN.bus compatible, and of course, going pure Victron pretty much ensures that. Do want to stick with MPPT devices available from CurrentConnected. For instance, the Midnite Classic 250V, with HyperVOC, could handle an extra panel per string since its really a 298V unit. Behavior would be a bit different, with the units shutting down on the coldest days until the Open Circuit voltage dropped as the day warmed, but that is a rare. The MidNite Hawke's Bay looks interesting, handling up to 12 panels per string if I'm willing to live with ultra cold weather shutdowns. Only two strings, so would need 2, similar to the Victron 450/100 config except with more panel capability (and panels are, lets face it, one of the cheapest parts of the system these days).

Midnights come with a 5 year warranty, didn't spot the warranty period on Victrons?

Thoughts?
Victrons have 5 year warranties, if you buy direct thru Current Connected they bump that up to 10 years.

I have a 450/100, running 10 Hyundai 300W and 10 Aptos 370W bifacial. I will have to remove one of the Aptos before winter or I'll be over 450V.

I could have gone with a 450/200 but like you I didn't want all my charging dependent on a single device, so plan is to add a second 450/100 down the track.

These need 120V to start but that's not a problem with 8-9 panels

May also want to consider a Midnite Rosie or two, split phase 7kW with huge surge capabilities, they have two SCCs, 90A and 120A single track Hawkes Bay and 200A dual tracker Barcelona.

I've recently got a Rosie because I didn't want to deal with transformer hum with Quattros. But only have a 20A 120V power strip connected to its output

Screenshot_20240715_191202_Gallery.jpg
 
250V is cheaper, (2) of which would provide me (6) string support, 5 panels per string, so up to 30 panels (Hey, that's a pallet load!) for about $1225 plus shipping (excluding panels). But I only really need 3 strings of 9 - still, could do a few extra panels and run (6) strings of 5 panels. Power producing hours would likely be less than 9 panels strings though. Of course, wiring cost would double vs. 450V.

Only the rs450/100 and rs450/200 controllers have dual trackers in the Victron lineup. The 150 and 250V models are single trackers.
 
Victrons have 5 year warranties, if you buy direct thru Current Connected they bump that up to 10 years.

I have a 450/100, running 10 Hyundai 300W and 10 Aptos 370W bifacial. I will have to remove one of the Aptos before winter or I'll be over 450V.

I could have gone with a 450/200 but like you I didn't want all my charging dependent on a single device, so plan is to add a second 450/100 down the track.

These need 120V to start but that's not a problem with 8-9 panels

May also want to consider a Midnite Rosie or two, split phase 7kW with huge surge capabilities, they have two SCCs, 90A and 120A single track Hawkes Bay and 200A dual tracker Barcelona.

I've recently got a Rosie because I didn't want to deal with transformer hum with Quattros. But only have a 20A 120V power strip connected to its output

View attachment 228832
So the inverters are fixed at this point in the multi-phase project. Running Victron Multiplus IIs 48/3000/35s. Slowly moving circuits over, will stop when I fill the "critical load" panel with all but the silliest loads (like my Arc Welder and 240V 20amp cybercurrency test miner plug).
 
Beyond charge controllers there is the question about panels. Flipped through the CurrentConnected pages and my current favorite is the Hyperion 400W, limited a bit by my need for Bifacial panels for one of my tests.

Are all suppliers of Hyperion HY-DH108P6B's selling the same product? I've seen differences in warranty, with some sites listing 15 years, and others 25 years. Price seems to vary wildly as well, from ~$6000+$250 shipping for a pallet of 36 (~$175/panel) to $4420 with free shipping (apparently on sale) for apparently the same thing (~$123/panel)? That is a huge difference.
Current Connected are on the high side for panel pricing, I'd suggest getting everything except the panels from them. As much as they have a storied reputation for hardware support, for simple ten panels on a pallet transactions I've had good luck with Signature Solar for the Hyundai 300W, and more recently Solar Sovereign for the Aptos.
 
The Victron 250V charge controller also is passive cooling whereas the Midnite Classic 250V has fans. Mine died because fan died and reason why I switched to Victron.
 
So the inverters are fixed at this point in the multi-phase project. Running Victron Multiplus IIs 48/3000/35s. Slowly moving circuits over, will stop when I fill the "critical load" panel with all but the silliest loads (like my Arc Welder and 240V 20amp cybercurrency test miner plug).
So you'll be scaling up to larger dual Quattros for the whole house system? Or you can handle things with the dual 3ks?
 
The Victron 250V charge controller also is passive cooling whereas the Midnite Classic 250V has fans. Mine died because fan died and reason why I switched to Victron.
Good point, the 150 and 250V are passively cooled, the 450/100 and 450/200 have forced air cooling (fan noise on my 100 is low frequency and not at all objectionable, silent until around 1000W of solar and then ramps up from there).
 
Was actually thinking about using upwards of (6) 3ks, each pair having its own battery bank. Figure that would provide maximum redundancy.
Will the pairs be paralleled together or running seperate sub panels/loads? If all six are going to be linked Victron best practice would be to have all on the same battery bank to maintain load sharing via resistance.
 
With 6 3ks you also have to have the cable resistance between them exactly matched when configured for 120V/240V AC. That's why Victron considers it an "advanced" installation and prefers people to use the higher wattage ones to match what you need instead of trying to parallel.
 
Will the pairs be paralleled together or running seperate sub panels/loads? If all six are going to be linked Victron best practice would be to have all on the same battery bank to maintain load sharing via resistance.
TBD - was thinking paralleled but each battery bank having its own solar chargers (basically an "office * 3"). Thus the concern around trying to make the office as close to the future house solution as practical.

My office is using a bank of (5) SOK 48V units. Was actually thinking that (3) sets would be better than (1) 15 battery unit - less voltage difference between batteries. Suppose I could solve that if I crafted a bus bar arrangement. Something to consider.
 

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