Supporting multiple Victron Multiplus II's?

[KevinC_63559]

Hi.

Just completed phase 1 of my project, with my computer, TV, and a number of related items now running behind a Victron Multiplus II and a pair of 12V LiFePO4 batteries. Thanks to Current Connected for their help. System went together with a limited number of surprises (ferrule crimper needed!) and started right up. Under a full load I should have a bit over 4 hours. Turn off the TV and I'll be closer to 8. Power outage at night and I'll doubt I'll even notice until I see the lights in the morning. Its been a good day.

Phase 2 will be adding a pair of Multiplus IIs and 48V batteries to initially provide UPS to my entire office (which is also home to all the sites internet gear). Phase 3 is adding some solar to the Phase 2 system.

Phase 4 is doing the same thing, on a 2X larger scale, for my house.

Phase 5 is adding solar to Phase 4.

When all is said and done, I'll likely have at least 5 Multiplus II systems, perhaps more running in parallel.

It would be nice to be able to monitor via something like VE Configure from a central location, like my office PC. Is that even possible?

The Victron VE Configure webpage states it can connect to Victron products via Bluetooth, USB and WiFi/LAN/Internet. My office and house share the same LAN and WiFi. How do I go about hooking everything up to my LAN and what would I use software wise? VE Configure appears to only support a single COM port (in my case, via an MK3-USB connector, although that connects via a RJ45 jumper cable (e.g. Standard Cat 5 or above).

I have a bunch of Raspberry Pis laying around if that would help, but it would be cleaner just to be able to plug into my network and open a bunch of windows on my desktop (no worries, I run (3) 3440x1440 monitors, so have monitor pixels to spare).

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Get a Cerbo for each installation. You can see basic data on all installations you manage on VRM screen:



VEConfigure has only basic monitoring capability - barely useful.

I think you're actually referring to VictronConnect.

They say: It can connect to Victron products via Bluetooth, USB and WiFi/LAN/Internet.

That's kinda misleading as it's case specific. To connect to an inverter, you need a MK3-USB (full monitoring and programming) adapter or a VE.BUS smart dongle (monitoring only - no programming); no BT (except monitoring on smart dongle) or LAN options. To connect to MPPT/shunt, you can do BT only. GX devices connected to the LAN can be "tunneled" through to access connected MPPT/Shunts (not inverters).

VictronConnect can really only monitor one system at a time. You may need an instance of VC running for each DEVICE, though there is a summary page available for all BT devices in range or all GX connected devices if tunneling through one.

Multiplus configured to operate in parallel are reported as ONE inverter. L1 and L2 behavior is tracked.

With your monitor acreage, simply having multiple VRM webpages open may work well too:



Highly similar function on smart phone app.

 

[Brucey]

May be able to save some money by going with Cerbo-S GX units if he's going for four or five installs and doesn't need the missing features.

 

[KevinC_63559]

Get a Cerbo for each installation. You can see basic data on all installations you manage on VRM screen:

View attachment 200356

VEConfigure has only basic monitoring capability - barely useful.

I think you're actually referring to VictronConnect.

OK - a Cerbo-S looks like it would do the job at a bit over $200 per.

I find it interesting that VE Configure lets me set everything I wish, like current limiting, but VictronConnect does not - just showing me the basics.

VictronConnect shows me AC IN 1 wattage, the shore limit (9.7 amps), AC Out L1: wattage (and presumable L2 if I had that hooked up), Inverter status, battery voltage. battery draw, and charger status (Float, Absorption, or Bulk I'm guessing). along with a description of what the status means (for Float: "Keep battery at constant voltage and fully charged"). Seems like a pretty consumer app.

VEConfig shows me "L1" main voltage, main amperage, and main power in VA, output voltage, output current, and output power in VA, Frequency in and Frequency out (which I'm baffled are not the same since its a passthrough system in its current state), battery voltage, battery draw, inverter amperage, DC charge amperage, DC ripple, and State of Charge as a 6 bar chart all under the General tab with the VE.Bus monitor clicked to show. All settings are visible, and settable, including key things like the charge curve, shore current limiting, battery type, etc. The interface feels like you need to know what your doing, and indeed there is a warning to that effect when you launch it. So less of a pretty consumer app. Also limited to whatever device is cabled up to it. But other than the float/absorption/bulk status, it seems to provide as much information as VictronConnect if not more. Curious why you would consider it "only basic"??? What am I missing?

I should state that the isolationist in me is hesitant to engage in VRM. I'm not fond of the idea of my power infrastructure data being available on the web. It freaks me out that I can control the household humidifiers from anywhere via their phone app, pretty sure I want to disable my power infrastructure from such capabilities. e.g. In my mind security overrides convenience when given the choice.

So, excluding the usage of VRM, what does adding Cerbo-S units buy me? I presume centralized monitoring via VictronConnect? (so nothing in my current configuration, but of value when I implement my 2nd phase of the project?).

On the side: My BMS is reporting a battery voltage of 13.69V, a cheap voltage display I have hooked up is showing 13.6V, VictronConnect is showing 13.80V (without a VE Sense cable plugged into the Multiplus), and VE Configure is showing 13.8V. Any idea why there is such a variance? Hmmm, just attached my good volt-ohm-meter and its showing 13.71V at my distribution panel. I can easily believe the cheap voltage display is off by 0.1V, but surprised the Mulitplus is reading high by about the same???

 

[sunshine_eggo]

What am I missing?

The distinction between monitoring and configuring. You're blurring the line between them. I vastly prefer VEConfig for making configuration changes. The only time VC is truly superior is for firmware updates - very easy, though VRM has that built in as well. Too nervous to try it completely remote, but I did it "remotely" through VRM while on-site, and it went perfectly.

I should state that the isolationist in me is hesitant to engage in VRM. I'm not fond of the idea of my power infrastructure data being available on the web. It freaks me out that I can control the household humidifiers from anywhere via their phone app, pretty sure I want to disable my power infrastructure from such capabilities. e.g. In my mind security overrides convenience when given the choice.

So, excluding the usage of VRM, what does adding Cerbo-S units buy me?

I'm not a salesmen. Recommend you read the brochure.

For me, it gives even more control over the hardware, enables VRM and permits my battery BMS to control the system.

I presume centralized monitoring via VictronConnect?

No. It can be used to "tunnel" to GX connected devices NOT including inverters.

On the side: My BMS is reporting a battery voltage of 13.69V, a cheap voltage display I have hooked up is showing 13.6V, VictronConnect is showing 13.80V (without a VE Sense cable plugged into the Multiplus), and VE Configure is showing 13.8V. Any idea why there is such a variance? Hmmm, just attached my good volt-ohm-meter and its showing 13.71V at my distribution panel. I can easily believe the cheap voltage display is off by 0.1V, but surprised the Mulitplus is reading high by about the same???

How many of your voltage measurement devices have been calibrated or at least correlated to a voltage reference?

If any current is flowing, the voltage will differ according to V = I * R. If charging, the MP will read high. If discharging, the MP will read low.

That's one benefit of a Cerbo. DVCC enables distributed voltage, current and temperature readings to all connected devices, e.g., if you had a smartshunt with temp sensor attached to the battery, the Cerbo DVCC function would pass the open circuit battery voltage, net battery current and battery temperature to all devices.

 

[740GLE]

You have a 12v MPII, and your planning to add a 48v MPII, then more and more for a total of 5.

Are you planing to use these units together (feeding one sub panel) or will they be their own islands not tied together?

 

[KevinC_63559]

The 12V system is standalone - functioning as my deskside UPS system covering my computer, tv, some ethernet switches, lamps, etc.

The 48V system will be wired into the office panel, with the current grid feed being moved to a new adjoining panel to simplify wiring. I'm retiring my 2000amp data center, so have a bunch of spare panels <smile>.

 

[KevinC_63559]

How many of your voltage measurement devices have been calibrated or at least correlated to a voltage reference?

If any current is flowing, the voltage will differ according to V = I * R. If charging, the MP will read high. If discharging, the MP will read low.

That was an excellent question!

Apparently my trustworthy volt-ohm meter I bought several decades ago is off by a bit. I powered up a regulated power supply, similar to what Current Connected sells, and its display and my VOM are off by quite a bit. Putting a 6 ohm huge resister across it is drawing 2.43 amps and 12.09 volts. My meter is reading 11.98 volts with the load. Without a load its reading 12.11 volts.

I guess its time to upgrade to a Fluke from my old Metex M-4650.

OMG - I just googled that unit, and the first hit was from RadioMuseum... apparently the model was made circa 1990. It was decent for the time I suppose (considered service or lab grade). Darn thing has never caused me any problems and still works just fine. This is the curse of being an old fart I suppose... my tools have aged with me.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I didn't make it clear, but the above is a means of having VRM-like reporting on a local server.

 

[rhino]

Are you planning on having 120V/240V AC with the 48V system or just 120V AC?

 

[KevinC_63559]

Are you planning on having 120V/240V AC with the 48V system or just 120V AC?

240V split phase so I can feed the entire panel, which includes a couple of 240V systems.

 

[KevinC_63559]

I didn't make it clear, but the above is a means of having VRM-like reporting on a local server.

Thanks. Servers I have... I'll look into it more once I have units that can feed it data (e.g. Cerbo connected). Hmmm, might make sense to get a Cerbo-S sooner than later just so I can start that project sooner than later... Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[740GLE]

Also you said you needed to use ferrules on the 12v unit for the AC side?

What conductor type were you using? Fine strands I take it?

I know ferrules have been debated on those spring type connection.

CC video is very nice, I like the loop method, but he shows no ferrules on 6/3 NM cable which is very very stiff.

 

[cdsolar]

Thanks. Servers I have... I'll look into it more once I have units that can feed it data (e.g. Cerbo connected). Hmmm, might make sense to get a Cerbo-S sooner than later just so I can start that project sooner than later... Thanks for the suggestion.

If you are Linux and pi savvy you can get a raspberry pi and install VenusOS instead of a true Cerbo.

 

[KevinC_63559]

If you are Linux and pi savvy you can get a raspberry pi and install VenusOS instead of a true Cerbo.

Cool. Yeah, been doing Linux since Slackware 0.94 (back when you could install Linux from 4 1.44mb floppies...) I have pi's stacked all around here - use to use them to control cybercoin mining gear.

 

[rhino]

240V split phase so I can feed the entire panel, which includes a couple of 240V systems.

Just remember the current offerings in North America don't allow you to easily expand 120V/240V AC systems. You have to parallel two 120V units to get the 240V and if you want to expand beyond that you have to get another two of exact same model and make sure the DC and AC cabling of all units are exactly the same.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Once you add in the costs of a MK3-USB and various VE.Direct to USB interfaces, the total cost of the RPi approaches that of the cerbo with less functionality

 

[KevinC_63559]

Once you add in the costs of a MK3-USB and various VE.Direct to USB interfaces, the total cost of the RPi approaches that of the cerbo with less functionality

True... except that I already own the MK3-USB (part of my original purchase), have stacks of RPi 3bs, piles of ethernet cords, and hunting down my old 7" HDMI display and micro keyboard. e.g. No cost at all for me presuming I can find my blasted MicroSD->USB adapter! Will probably upgrade that HDMI display to a new color one - found touch-screen 7" HDMI color screens for $37 on Amazon. Add $10 more for a new MicorSD->USB adapter I ordered just in case I can't find my old one. Not to mention it sounds like a fun little project...

When I do the next phase, I can see buying a real Cerbo to get the VE-CAN support for the batteries, unless there is an adapter cable to USB for that? But my phase 1 batteries are just Amazon cheapies, with Bluetooth BMSes, but no external communication interface.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

True... except that I already own the MK3-USB (part of my original purchase), have stacks of RPi 3bs, piles of ethernet cords, and hunting down my old 7" HDMI display and micro keyboard. e.g. No cost at all for me presuming I can find my blasted MicroSD->USB adapter! Will probably upgrade that HDMI display to a new color one - found touch-screen 7" HDMI color screens for $37 on Amazon. Add $10 more for a new MicorSD->USB adapter I ordered just in case I can't find my old one. Not to mention it sounds like a fun little project...

When I do the next phase, I can see buying a real Cerbo to get the VE-CAN support for the batteries, unless there is an adapter cable to USB for that? But my phase 1 batteries are just Amazon cheapies, with Bluetooth BMSes, but no external communication interface.

You will need a MK3-USB for each inverter group, i.e., one for each RPi or Cerbo. You will need a VE.Direct to USB for each VE.direct device (MPPT, shunt). If I'm going to have $200 invested in RPi+interface stuff, I'm likely to just go for a Cerbo.

 

[KevinC_63559]

You will need a MK3-USB for each inverter group, i.e., one for each RPi or Cerbo. You will need a VE.Direct to USB for each VE.direct device (MPPT, shunt). If I'm going to have $200 invested in RPi+interface stuff, I'm likely to just go for a Cerbo.

Again, only doing this for my current setup, which is basically a UPS (Multiplus II + batteries), and I already have the MK3-USB and the RPi. Don't have any VE.direct devices or VE.CAN devices.

I agree, on my next phase using a pair of 3000s to provide 240V I'll just get a Cerbo.

In the meantime, this feels like a fun little project.