Getting a refund, can’t use my 48 vdc windmill with EG4 system.

[David93561]

So, last week I ordered 2 EG4 6000XP inverters and 4 EG4 indoor batteries only to find out today, I would void my warranty if I were to include my 48 vdc Southwest Whisper 500 wind generator, into the mix. Also, my 48 vdc Kohler propane backup generator, also not approved to tie in. I had hoped to do a total replacement, but looks like I need to do better research. Anyone else have this issue?

 

[ksmithaz1]

Why/how does it void the warranty? You can use any MPPT/source you want to charge your batteries, assuming it is designed for lifepo4 charging. Not sure what any of that has to do with the inverter. If those devices are not compatible with lifepo4 battery charging, that would be something, but surely you can find some interface to handle it, the BMS should handle the rest.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

So, last week I ordered 2 EG4 6000XP inverters and 4 EG4 indoor batteries only to find out today, I would void my warranty if I were to include my 48 vdc Southwest Whisper 500 wind generator, into the mix. Also, my 48 vdc Kohler propane backup generator, also not approved to tie in. I had hoped to do a total replacement, but looks like I need to do better research. Anyone else have this issue?

@SignatureSolarJess
@SignatureSolarJames

Really? If this is true, you really need to explain this. You should also review U.S. liability law and what can and can't void a warranty.

 

[cs1234]

We already told EG4 / SS they shouldn't do that type of warranty voiding nonsense for connecting other things to the 48v bus.

@SignatureSolarJess

Signature Solar / EG4 isn't trying to sneak this warranty voiding stuff back in again are they?

Spoiler: Again?

 

[David93561]

Why/how does it void the warranty? You can use any MPPT/source you want to charge your batteries, assuming it is designed for lifepo4 charging. Not sure what any of that has to do with the inverter. If those devices are not compatible with lifepo4 battery charging, that would be something, but surely you can find some interface to handle it, the BMS should handle the rest.

Because it hasn’t been tested for use with wind generators, therefore it’s not approved. If not approved, then warranty voided.

 

[cs1234]

If I remember correctly (it's here in the forums somewhere), I think they ended up saying something along the lines of..

You won't get our super fast amazing warranty support if you use open loop insanity batteries with our new EG4 18kpv. You will have to send your inverter in where we can test it all special like and make sure you didn't kill it with your not closed loop stuff.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Because it hasn’t been tested for use with wind generators, therefore it’s not approved. If not approved, then warranty voided.

That's a load of BS.

The only way a manufacturer can void a warranty is if they can document that YOU or other attached equipment damaged their equipment. The simple presence of other hardware in the system can't invalidate a manufacturer's warranty.

 

[Danke]

Open loop can kill the EG4 18kpv?

 

[cs1234]

Open loop can kill the EG4 18kpv?

Beats me. I just know James doesn't like it, or didn't like it. He might have had a change of heart.

 

[David93561]

That's a load of BS.

The only way a manufacturer can void a warranty is if they can document that YOU or other attached equipment damaged their equipment. The simple presence of other hardware in the system can't invalidate a manufacturer's warranty.

I can’t spend 16k on a new system and not have it covered and I’m not going to lie and say I don’t have other inputs connected. I was told a diesel back up generator was approved, but not what I have. Sorry Will on the kick back loss on this sale.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Do what you have to do, but I hope they come and explain themselves.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Because it hasn’t been tested for use with wind generators, therefore it’s not approved. If not approved, then warranty voided.

This is blowing smoke up your butt. Now if you hook a DC source to your batteries and it is not designed for that and overvolts and blows something up, ... On you. I probably would not throw random 48v generating devices on the bus without confirming they will work, and or, I would have them pass-thru an MPPT device on the way.

 

[ksmithaz1]

You are actually talking about an offline lifepo4 battery charger, you must be talking to someone thinking you are trying to bond AC or something on the grid/gen ports. This has nothing to do with the inverter itself, just the batteries. The inverter will work with multiple types of 48v batteries, I did not see a list of 'approved' brands anywhere, and you can't void a warranty unless you can show the device in question caused the problem. It's the same as the EG4 chargeverter I have connected to my system. I would run it thru an MPPT or something if is not engineered as a lifepo4 charger or has no voltage control that is a problem regardless of warranty.

 

[400bird]

This open loop communication thing is BS

Their chargeverter is open loop and I'm 100% sure they won't void the warranty if you connect that to your system. There just might be some connection to where you spend your $$$

 

[SignatureSolarJess]

Good morning!! Hope everyone is well!

So per EG4's warranty page,
it says: Warranty Exclusions: EG4 Electronics has no obligation under this limited warranty for products subjected to the following conditions, including but not limited to:

• Damages incurred during installation/reinstallation or removal.
• Poor workmanship performed by an individual, installer, or a firm.
• Damages caused by mishandling the product or inappropriate environmental exposure.
• Damages caused by improper maintenance or operating outside the specified operating conditions.
• Tampering, altering, and/or disassembly of the product.
• Using the product in applications other than what the manufacturer intended.
• Lightning, fire, flood, earthquake, terrorism, riots, or acts of God.
• Any product with a serial number that has been altered, defaced, or removed.
• Any unauthorized firmware updates/upgrades/patches.
• Damages incurred from voltage or current spikes due to open-loop lithium battery communications.

So customers can use these batteries in an open loop system, but if the product becomes damaged due to this application, it looks like EG4 will not cover under their warranty. So using the batteries in an open loop application does not auto-void the warranty, but if the batteries are damaged they will not be covered.

This is EG4's warranty, so I would like to reach out to them so that they can comment themselves

 

[EG4_Eric]

These warranty exclusions are correct and the warranty to any of our products can be found on our website.

Warranty - EG4 Electronics

Warranty Select Warranty for: Menu Select Your Product 18kPV-12LV Inverter EG4 6000XP All-In-One Off-Grid Inverter EG4 6500EX-48 Inverter EG4 6000EX-48HV Inverter EG4 3000EHV-48 Inverter EG4 8KEXP-240V Inverter EG4 14.3kWh PowerPro Wallmount All Weather EG4 WallMount Indoor 280Ah Lithium Battery...

eg4electronics.com

 

[Danke]

• Damages incurred from voltage or current spikes due to open-loop lithium battery communications.

How do they communicate in open-loop?

 

[Crowz]

How do they communicate in open-loop?

Remember this is the same bunch that said solar assistant kills their stuff

 

[Crowz]

Another reason I buy eg4 products thru current connected and not directly from them AND I will never buy one of their inverter products.

I do own a chargeverter but I will not buy their inverter/aio products because of these kinds of things.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Good morning!! Hope everyone is well!

So per EG4's warranty page,
it says: Warranty Exclusions: EG4 Electronics has no obligation under this limited warranty for products subjected to the following conditions, including but not limited to:

• Damages incurred during installation/reinstallation or removal.
• Poor workmanship performed by an individual, installer, or a firm.
• Damages caused by mishandling the product or inappropriate environmental exposure.
• Damages caused by improper maintenance or operating outside the specified operating conditions.
• Tampering, altering, and/or disassembly of the product.
• Using the product in applications other than what the manufacturer intended.
• Lightning, fire, flood, earthquake, terrorism, riots, or acts of God.
• Any product with a serial number that has been altered, defaced, or removed.
• Any unauthorized firmware updates/upgrades/patches.
• Damages incurred from voltage or current spikes due to open-loop lithium battery communications.

So customers can use these batteries in an open loop system, but if the product becomes damaged due to this application, it looks like EG4 will not cover under their warranty. So using the batteries in an open loop application does not auto-void the warranty, but if the batteries are damaged they will not be covered.

This is EG4's warranty, so I would like to reach out to them so that they can comment themselves

Installation of alternate suitable charging sources does not violate ANY of the above.

Why is the OP being told he can't use wind or a DC generator, and it will void his warranty?

 

[Hedges]

How do they communicate in open-loop?

Ow! Ouch! Stop it!!

 

[Hedges]

But if you buy a UL Listed ESS consisting of EG4 18kpv & PowerPro, I think the listing would be violated with any DC coupled sources or loads.

The BMS may log voltages and currents. If anything delivers spikes above what the FETs can withstand, they will be damaged.
"Windmill", does that have voltage regulation so it will not go over-voltage even if BMS disconnects? Some have a shunt regulator.
Windmills can also be fed through charge controller (Midnight Classic with Clipper) or inverter for AC coupling (Windy Boy, probably something like Clipper).

 

[SignatureSolarJess]

So, last week I ordered 2 EG4 6000XP inverters and 4 EG4 indoor batteries only to find out today, I would void my warranty if I were to include my 48 vdc Southwest Whisper 500 wind generator, into the mix. Also, my 48 vdc Kohler propane backup generator, also not approved to tie in. I had hoped to do a total replacement, but looks like I need to do better research. Anyone else have this issue?

Hi David!

If you don't mind me asking, who was it specifically that told you this? We'd like to make sure they have the correct information. It doesn't void the unit to add this to your setup, but if it causes any damage to the unit, the warranty doesn't cover it.

 

[cs1234]

Even if it logs voltages and currents, how would they determine what exactly delivered the voltages and currents to void your warranty?

How can it be said with 100% certainty that it was the 48v generator that gave it too much current? Maybe it was delivering current just fine, and then the sun came out and the EG4 inverter delivered too much current to the batteries.

This is just a get out of jail free card for them on warranty issues if you have anything open loop on your EG4 system. If it's not a closed loop product, with data logging, that they can have access to when you have a warranty issue, you are potentially, just poop out of luck.

I wouldn't expect to have any warranty, other than initial DOA (and I would still expect a fight), on open or closed loop electrical equipment, regardless of vendor, so it's irrelevant to me, but the principle still stands.

 

[cs1234]

But if you buy a UL Listed ESS consisting of EG4 18kpv & PowerPro, I think the listing would be violated with any DC coupled sources or loads.

True, but the listing has nothing to do with warranty. The listing and legality is between you and the electrical provider / AHJ.

There needs to be a HUGE disclaimer on their website or on the phone when purchasing these products, not tucked away in a warranty document, that says you can only use these products with APPROVED by EG4 accessories. Once this disclaimer is posted, people need to pay heed to it and strongly consider whether to buy from that manufacturer.. if they value a warranty.